Free will in the light of Romans 11:25?

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Mar 28, 2016
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#62
I didn't say they would. "Would" is hypothetical. God gave (no 'woulds' about it) His revelation to Israel, not to the Gentiles. Gentiles couldn't misrepresent what they didn't have in the first place.

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? ... 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Deuteronomy 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before
you this day?
Psalm 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them.
The faithless Jews couldn't misrepresent what they didn't have in the first place .And when it was available so no value in the gospel

The gospel has never been about the corrupted flesh of any nation...

It would seem you are trying to give some value to the flesh of a Jew . If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then they simply do not belong to Christ.

The reformation came, the use of Jewish flesh as types and shadows in parable and ceremonial laws came to a end.

The government of God was returned to the time period of Judges. Before there were kings in Israel..
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#63
They had the preaching of Enoch and Noah at least.

Why do you think (there's a chance) that they would misrepresent it any more than the Gentiles IF they had clearly seen it?
Unbelievers are unbeliever (no faith) They have no chance without the mercy and grace of God that comes by hearing the gospel.

According to Acts 15 ..Why tempt God?

He is not respecter of persons or nations.He is not served by human flesh as if he needed something from the clay he forms Christ in.

Romans 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by (a work of His) faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#65
Unbelievers are unbeliever (no faith) They have no chance without the mercy and grace of God that comes by hearing the gospel.

According to Acts 15 ..Why tempt God?

He is not respecter of persons or nations.He is not served by human flesh as if he needed something from the clay he forms Christ in.
Apples and oranges.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#66
It would seem you are trying to give some value to the flesh of a Jew .
I'm not sure what you mean by "the flesh of a Jew" but God is not through with the Jews or with Israel.

Once the fulness of the Gentiles has come into the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body), God will resume His direct dealings with the Jews worldwide (after the Second Coming of Christ). And the believing remnant of Israel will also be saved by grace when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Before that, there will be "the time of Jacob's trouble" (the Tribulation) and Jews will go through much suffering.

God has a plan and purpose for the Church as well as a plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel on earth during and after the Millennium. Therefore the Church HAS NOT replaced Israel, and Replacement Theology is not biblical but man-made.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#69
I'm not sure what you mean by "the flesh of a Jew" but God is not through with the Jews or with Israel.

Once the fulness of the Gentiles has come into the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body), God will resume His direct dealings with the Jews worldwide (after the Second Coming of Christ). And the believing remnant of Israel will also be saved by grace when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Before that, there will be "the time of Jacob's trouble" (the Tribulation) and Jews will go through much suffering.

God has a plan and purpose for the Church as well as a plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel on earth during and after the Millennium. Therefore the Church HAS NOT replaced Israel, and Replacement Theology is not biblical but man-made.
Christian is the new name he name his bride the church previously called her Israel .It does not replace his bride she is his chaste virgin bride.

God is not through with the flesh of any nation. He has never been served by human hands as if he was a respecter of persons (the things seen the temporal). His wrath is be revealed against corrupted mankind the kind of flesh Jesus was clothed in

God is through using Jewish flesh in a ceremonial laws . Today the new ceremonial law (1 Corinthians11) is in respect to all nations sons and daughters do the work of prophesying bring the good news. We know no man after the flesh, Even the Son of man who said it could never profit for anything other that a promised demonstration of the Holy Spirit pouring out his unseen Spirit on flesh to do what the letter of the law could not do .Create a new spirit and new heart . The one time demonstration is over.

The same dealing of the Holy Spirit that worked in a Jew flesh a thousands of years ago(the perfect law) Works in all nations today called the gospel.

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ in any generation then he does not belong to Christ .

They can belong to a group marked by some sort of fleshly genealogy that ended over two thousand years ago .No way of knowing today how many different nations make up the genealogy .No such thing a s a pure Jew. More of the Heinz 57 variety .

But if Jesus says his flesh prophets for nothing. and we are not to look for flesh that cannot enter heaven.

Do you think the veil will be mended and we can look for another outward demonstration. . Why underplay the effects of the first century reformation? The temporal time period used as a parables.... ended.

Build another pagan temple in the holy place of God? Some are looking for a red heifer as sign and lying wonder to begin the work?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#70
They can belong to a group marked by some sort of fleshly genealogy that ended over two thousand years ago .No way of knowing today how many different nations make up the genealogy .No such thing a s a pure Jew. More of the Heinz 57 variety .
Could you get off your antisemitic diatribe and get back on topic?

Here is a reminder of the topic...
How do those of you who hold to an unbendable 'free will' position, explain the fact that for the most part of their history, since Christ's death, "a partial hardening/blindness has come upon Israel"? How would you fit this into the 'freewill' scenario? Would you at least say this 'hardening/blindness' puts the Jews at a disadvantage, free will speaking, for the time being?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.(Rom 11:25) (ESV)

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)(KJV)
Thank you.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#71
IOW, it has NOTHING to do with the OP.
Yes free will is to do the will of God . . . the meat of the word and finish it (Philippian 2:12) God performs that which is appoints to us.

God can make our hearts soft.

Eternal God as eternal Spirit is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female .He is not a man as us. Never was never could be.

God does not have corrupted flesh and blood and neither is served by those hands.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#72
Could you get off your antisemitic diatribe and get back on topic?

Here is a reminder of the topic...

Thank you.
anti-Semitic...……. No thank you. I am not anti-Semitic. Maybe ask next time rather than guessing.

I am a inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ. He renamed his Jewish bride. . . "Christian" a word with no other meaning added (residents of the city of Christ) named after her founder Christ. She is prepared as a city ( residents of) coming down on the last day as his chaste virgin bride the church. Renamed in Acts...

God defines the words he inspires men to write down and interprets the pables giving the gospel meaning to his children .Adding meaning can confuse the original use intended by the author .Christian is one to be careful of..

Romans 2:29nBut he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the (fleshly) letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I am not the one looking for a fleshly Jesus to come and be born again of the corrupted flesh.

One demonstration is all that was promised..The unbeliever denies both the father and the Son .

We are to know no man after the flesh (what the eyes see the temporal ) even though some did for that temporal time period. We are lovingly commanded that we know him no more after what the eyes see the temporal .Flesh and blood could never enter the new order. Just as we do not wrestles against flesh and blood neither are we supported by looking at it. Even Jesus refused to stand in the holy place as our source of faith he said Only God alone is good giving glory to the unseen the mystery of faith. the peace of God that surpasses all understanding.

2 Corinthians 5:6-17 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#74
Yes free will is to do the will of God . . . the meat of the word and finish it (Philippian 2:12) God performs that which is appoints to us.

God can make our hearts soft.

Eternal God as eternal Spirit is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female .He is not a man as us. Never was never could be.

God does not have corrupted flesh and blood and neither is served by those hands.
I'm the starter of this thread and I am asking you to address the topic of freewill in the light of Rom 11:25...like so many others have thoughtfully done.
Here is a starter, "Why has God partially hardened Israel and not the Gentiles?"
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#75
Free Will if good for one thing only; rejection, by our freewill we reject Christ even against the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Our will must be broken for us to repent, then as a broken and contrite soul, crushed from the weight of conviction for our sins we are given faith to believe. All the work of the Holy Spirit.
When the scale fall off your eyes and you then see, it is because the Holy Spirit removed them.
The proof is that we know that our actions are wrong yet we do it anyway. We know by the way we feel when we are wronged by others , we know by the times we promised to never do a thing again if we get out of the mess we caused.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#76
Free Will if good for one thing only; rejection, by our freewill we reject Christ even against the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Our will must be broken for us to repent, then as a broken and contrite soul, crushed from the weight of conviction for our sins we are given faith to believe. All the work of the Holy Spirit.
When the scale fall off your eyes and you then see, it is because the Holy Spirit removed them.
The proof is that we know that our actions are wrong yet we do it anyway. We know by the way we feel when we are wronged by others , we know by the times we promised to never do a thing again if we get out of the mess we caused.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)

Can you tie the two together?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#79
Scripture mentions a broken heart and a broken spirit (Psalm 34:18 & 51:17). Does it mention a "broken will" anywhere?
A broken spirit, and a broken and contrite heart . Equate to a broken will. What is man's will but his heart and spirit. We even call the opposite of contrite, defiant or another word for defiant is willful.
So we can bandy words as is contrary to the instructions given to Timothy in the second letter, or we can accept that the the spirit and heart of man is his mind and emotions which is the will of a man. It's the same thing.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
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#80
A broken spirit, and a broken and contrite heart . Equate to a broken will. What is man's will but his heart and spirit. We even call the opposite of contrite, defiant or another word for defiant is willful.
So we can bandy words as is contrary to the instructions given to Timothy in the second letter, or we can accept that the the spirit and heart of man is his mind and emotions which is the will of a man. It's the same thing.
You haven't referenced any Scripture passage(s) that mention a "broken will".