The Pictures of Redemption, Shed Blood, Faith and Salvation in the O.T. that Pointed to JESUS
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Its quite a common belief among pastors but if you insist these are deceivers because you want to view issues as black and white, well everyone has a right to his opinion. 
You know....JOB said....I KNOW my redeemer lives and that after the maggots had eaten his body he would STAND again at the last day and SEE his redeemer with his own EYES....
A few very BIBLICAL points to ponder.....
a. A LOST MAN could NOT SAY THIS
b. A LOST MAN could NOT EVEN understand this truth
c. THIS shows that HE UNDERSTOOD the resurrection
d. THIS shows that he UNDERSTOOD that he would have a NEW BODY
e. HE HAD TO BE SAVED to UNDERSTAND THESE truths because the NATURAL MAN cannot receive, know and or DISCERN spiritual truths as the Corinthian letter STATES
A few very BIBLICAL points to ponder.....
a. A LOST MAN could NOT SAY THIS
b. A LOST MAN could NOT EVEN understand this truth
c. THIS shows that HE UNDERSTOOD the resurrection
d. THIS shows that he UNDERSTOOD that he would have a NEW BODY
e. HE HAD TO BE SAVED to UNDERSTAND THESE truths because the NATURAL MAN cannot receive, know and or DISCERN spiritual truths as the Corinthian letter STATES
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Not hardly pal......David was clear....he said the JOY OF THY SALVATION in the present tense.....be honest or do not address me again...I am sick of people that trample all over the word of GOD while being dishonest with what the bible states.....and you are one of the worst on this site
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
AND before you jump on what is not said....he says the JOY of thy salvation.....NOT SALVATION
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
AND before you jump on what is not said....he says the JOY of thy salvation.....NOT SALVATION
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For me, there is no need to feel sick when debating on the Internet.
I just hold a sense of curiosity to understand why others think the way they do, and respect their thought process. There is no need to use terms like dishonest and liars when you are respecting other people's thinking processes.
I just hold a sense of curiosity to understand why others think the way they do, and respect their thought process. There is no need to use terms like dishonest and liars when you are respecting other people's thinking processes.
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And it was Noah who built it, God didn’t build the ship for him of coarse God taught Noah how to build a proper keel but Noah had to apply the knowledge through hard work to achieve salvation. if you are convicted about doing something from God and you do it, you can be assured He will close the door on it.
I understand your point. I think to the thread starter, he combined both believing and doing as part of faith. That allows him to have the opinion that it has always been faith alone that saves even in the OT.
For others like yourself and me, we distinguish between them. Faith is believing God, works is what you do after you believe God.
Noah not only had to believe God that there would be a flood, he also had to build the ark after he believed God. If he believed God that there will be a flood, but choose not to build an ark, he would have perished like the rest.
No doubt the ark is suppose to represent Jesus but it does not mean Noah can say like us now, "I believe in Jesus for my salvation and cease from my works". If he adopt that view, he would still have perished like everyone else.
Likewise for all the Jews in the OT, they have to get circumcised, they have to bring the lamb every time they sinned, to get saved in the end. All these are considered works, even though we now know that the lamb represents Jesus. That still will not excuse them from those works if they want to be saved.
For others like yourself and me, we distinguish between them. Faith is believing God, works is what you do after you believe God.
Noah not only had to believe God that there would be a flood, he also had to build the ark after he believed God. If he believed God that there will be a flood, but choose not to build an ark, he would have perished like the rest.
No doubt the ark is suppose to represent Jesus but it does not mean Noah can say like us now, "I believe in Jesus for my salvation and cease from my works". If he adopt that view, he would still have perished like everyone else.
Likewise for all the Jews in the OT, they have to get circumcised, they have to bring the lamb every time they sinned, to get saved in the end. All these are considered works, even though we now know that the lamb represents Jesus. That still will not excuse them from those works if they want to be saved.
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Noah's faith is what saved him based upon Gods grace....and his faith was not in the ARK, it was in the message and belief that GOD was going to flood the world and like normal...you are conflating the preservation of his PHYSICAL LIFE with SPIRITUAL SALVATION.......there will be many that will not make the final cut because of conflating truths into that which the bible does not support.
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Yes, I thank God for this marvelous mystery, the grace dispensation that he revealed to Paul for us Gentiles now. That we can be saved by faith alone in Christ's death burial and resurrection, apart from works, unlike what all the OT people had to do previously.
And that work of Jesus Christ for us was so much more powerful than anything those works could have done for them. Jesus's work satisfy God so much until God promised never to impute sin to us. Now I understand better why King David envied us so much in Romans 4.
And that work of Jesus Christ for us was so much more powerful than anything those works could have done for them. Jesus's work satisfy God so much until God promised never to impute sin to us. Now I understand better why King David envied us so much in Romans 4.
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There are times in the Word when God's prophets prophesy in the past tense of a verb……….. I have been told this is to emphasize the event is certain, just as when our Father repeats an event will come about. The tenses of verbs and other parts of speech are not in stone for our Father. His ways are not our ways to be delineated by the fleshy minds ofmen caught up in their own intelligence, and tnot the knowledge from our Father.
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