Works can NEVER earn salvation

[fredoheaven]

and this means follow the law or do not follow the law?

Btw, what is your motivation of following the law?

Commandments in the Gospels​

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Commandments in the Epistles​

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1 Thess 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

2 Pet 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

1 John 2:3, 4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 - 24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight . . . And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2, 3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Commandment in Revelation​

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These commandments are not to get salvation. Jesus is not the Testator of the New Testament; He is the Testator of the First Testament to which the Lord obtained the redemption of the transgression that were under the First Testament. Still, the Lord is the MEDIATOR of the NEW TESTAMENT.

Heb 9:11- 18: (11.) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; (12.) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (13.) For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: (14.) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (15.) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (16.) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17.) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (18.) Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

once again peter I am watching you, You think your manipulation of things will pass. You are sadly mistaking..

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1. said I was done, so please stop responding to me., your twisting of Gods word for your own benefit and tryign to make a doctrine out of ONE verse is old and has been tried and failed by so many before you
2. I also said I believe paul. Just not your interpretation of what Paul said in that passage (because you ignore the rest of the passage
3. Moses paul and james said if you do not keep every part of the law perfectly. Ie, if you keep all f it, but fail in even 1 area, your cursed. So your argument is not with me, it is with those men of God.

If you do not want to participate in a forum, guess what, stop responding.
Clearly saying commiting one sin means any other model than easy believism is wrong does not hold
water. Everyone is growing, men of faith and those with none, and under Gods grace and judgement.

A multitude of models exist, and individuals normally agree with one or the other.
It helps when people identify with a particular position and share why it speaks to them strongly.
Some where strongly armenian, and have become more reformed over the years. It is helpful to hear
such stories.

What is not helpful is to declare a position, partly and then simply attack someone who holds a different
view without discussing the finer points. It suggests weakness and a lack of clarity of the strengths and
weaknesses involved. But if weakness is ones style, and thorns the only attitude when more clarity is
requested, it is just propoganda and indoctrination rather than living working faith. God bless you.

 

[fredoheaven]

Can I ask you why you say repent, then add "change your mind about sin" as if this is something different
from other repentance.

I know repentance as Nineveh

7 Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles:
Do not let any man or beast, herd or flock, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink.
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God.
Let them give up their evil ways and their violence.
9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so
that we will not perish."
Jonah 3

9 now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to
repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to
clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness
to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.
2 Corinthians 7

Are these examples of repentance you are agreeing with or disagreeing with?

2 Timothy 2:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance a change of mind about sin, about Christ or the gospel. End result to acknowledge the truth.

 

[fredoheaven]

once again peter I am watching you, You think your manipulation of things will pass. You are sadly mistaking..

hahaha Peter Jens? Are you saying same old story? Ummm...

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Manipulation

There is something ironic here.
Lets imagine I am at the top of a hill, arguing my points with dams, boulders, problems, issues all
carefully balanced and held in check. I am very sensitive to how things appear and what is solid and
what is not.

Here comes a guy who is totally free, who just expresses as God gives Him inspiration, and insight into
His word. It just flows from Him as the Holy Spirit leads.

The person who has to work very hard to balance everything knows the differences in approach and
thinks the other is carefully creating a different story and manipulating what is going on.

It does not occur to them that God himself is just shinning as a light on His truth and His word, because
this is so far from this guys world, he literally has no clue. Manipulation only occurs when you do not
know the King, because in love and His Spirit there is just light, love and grace, Amen

 

[FollowHisSteps]

2 Timothy 2:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance a change of mind about sin, about Christ or the gospel. End result to acknowledge the truth.

Hi fred,

You have not answered the verses I have quoted.
If you follow Jesus, repentance is a cornerstone.

We can change our mind about sin, maybe change it to sin is great, or it does not matter, or we are what we are.

So unfortunately what is called a platitude, something that appears to have value but says nothing is what
you have said.

22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along
with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2

As you are quoting Paul instructing Timothy on instructing them the right way to go in the Lord,
you need to include Pauls instruction on pursuing righteousness, faith, love and peace.

And in truth God grants people repentance, the ability to repent to see the need for sorrow, and to
walk in the ways of Christ.

I hope and pray this is your intention, that through repentance and faith, we might all walk the ways of Jesus.
God bless you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hahaha Peter Jens? Are you saying same old story? Ummm...

Pretty much everyone who goes back and read his stuff in the beginning of this thread agrees..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See look at his past two posts..

See how he starts something off with MANIPULATION in bold. Then writes something thst he thinks supports his view. Thats what peter did.

Also. See what he also does. He says if I do not want to participate. I need to stop responding.

I want to participate. Just not with people like him and others who themselves do not want to participate.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

See look at his past two posts..
See how he starts something off with MANIPULATION in bold. Then writes something thst he thinks supports his view. Thats what peter did.
Also. See what he also does. He says if I do not want to participate. I need to stop responding.
I want to participate. Just not with people like him and others who themselves do not want to participate.

Sound argument. I use a title, and write things underneath. I hope that everyone who knows how to
present arguments does this. If someone thinks this proves who someone is, they have some serious problems
with their thinking.

I got to laugh. EG says "I am done" "Do not respond to me" and now says I want to participate.
Of course everyone can contribute how they like, it is just if one wants to claim they are consistent, this declares
exactly the opposite.

A combative style falls apart when ones own posts deny the very thing one is claiming, God bless you friend.
I wonder what this fascination with identity is in an anonymous forum. I thought if you could do a public discussion
like this with known people, and I realised it would be a problem, because sometimes things are said for an
particular audience, and you cannot take them back. So I praise God we can encourage one another and explore
our beliefs without terrible consequences if our emphasis is slightly off for x who loves to use it against others.

But maybe that is what is going on here. If you are x, wo, so so so bad, you could be ....... a believer ......

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Pretty much everyone who goes back and read his stuff in the beginning of this thread agrees..

Here is an interesting premise. This guy is that guy or girl from the past.
Oh, and. It is like saying that guy over there is black, like that black guy who you met years ago.

There needs to be more about the connection than a connection. I have seen two people representing
a position and the opposition said they were the same person, because they spoke, expressed and argued in
a similar way.

I think the logic is, if they are deceiving us like this they must be deceiving us in other ways we cannot see.
When your theology is based on a teacher who is not God, your heart flits here and there, the integrity of a
teacher is very important. I simply stand in Christ and ask everyone to ask Him for revelation and inspiration
as to the next step they need to take. This is the way of Jesus. Listen to His word and let the Holy Spirit minister
to you through repentance, sorrow for sin, humbling, restitution, forgiveness and faith, and then you will begin
to see the way through.

The Holy Spirit seals us in Christ, if you have repented and put your faith in Him, showing works of repentance.

 

[Leastamongmany]

See look at his past two posts..

See how he starts something off with MANIPULATION in bold. Then writes something thst he thinks supports his view. Thats what peter did.

Also. See what he also does. He says if I do not want to participate. I need to stop responding.

I want to participate. Just not with people like him and others who themselves do not want to participate.

Why are YOU ALWAYS SO ANGRY? I don't understand! Everything we say or is said shouldn't be so personal. In fact EVERYTHING SHOULD BE ABOUT HIM.......NOT US!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are YOU ALWAYS SO ANGRY? I don't understand! Everything we say or is said shouldn't be so personal. In fact EVERYTHING SHOULD BE ABOUT HIM.......NOT US!

Back off please. And stop with your nonsense of thinking I am angry, I am not angry at all.. I am exposing a person who is in sin. And I am not the only person here who sees it.

If you want to enable a person who is in sin, thats on you. But I refuse to take part in any enabling.

 

[dcontroversal]

See look at his past two posts..

See how he starts something off with MANIPULATION in bold. Then writes something thst he thinks supports his view. Thats what peter did.

Also. See what he also does. He says if I do not want to participate. I need to stop responding.

I want to participate. Just not with people like him and others who themselves do not want to participate.

AMEN.....same rigmarole in the works thread as well....incessant psycho babel and false accusations and nothing but blather...........

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Back off please. And stop with your nonsense of thinking I am angry, I am not angry at all.. I am exposing a person who is in sin. And I am not the only person here who sees it.
If you want to enable a person who is in sin, thats on you. But I refuse to take part in any enabling.

I can see the calm level language here.
This is not a physical thread, these are just words shared in love and grace.

"Back off please. And stop with your nonsense of thinking I am angry, I am not angry at all.. I am exposing a person who is in sin."

At this point

The spiritual police have arrived. The funny thing is the authority here is non-existent.
What is this sin? What is this intent?

Now imagine if this individual had murdered someone, with witnesses and was refusing to repent.
Now the language might fit. It would be tempered with care and support.

Except this is the shell with no content and aimed at the wrong person in the wrong way.
It makes a mockery of the individual themselves and their false language and accusations.
God help them if they regard any of this of value or importance to anyone. God bless you

And if this is aimed at me, personally, who are you friend? I do not know you?

 

[Jimbone]

I am trying to tell you that, before the grace dispensation given to Paul by the ascended Christ, you need to show your faith by your works, in order to be saved.

But now, it is faith apart from works. We are saved just by believing in Jesus's DBR.

I agree with you actually, but what is the "RESULT" of being saved? Why are we saved? Whats the point? I thought, think, and testify that salvation will result in you desiring to serve Him. If He is in you you will produce work. Not as chains, or in a burdensome way AT ALL, but because of your new heart, or as a result of, eyes are opened and ears hear everything new, and you want nothing more than to build the kingdom. It is that radical, and I will proclaim Jesus and His power every time I get a chance to, because He empowers me to, and gets ALL glory!!! That is the whole point of this Jesus thing, we are His people, and He is our God. Let His kingdom come, let His will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven. I love it!!

 

[preston39]

Back off please. And stop with your nonsense of thinking I am angry, I am not angry at all.. I am exposing a person who is in sin. And I am not the only person here who sees it.

If you want to enable a person who is in sin, thats on you. But I refuse to take part in any enabling.

I fear your state of anger prevents you from receiving understanding of G-d's word.
Try a different approach and see if it helps. It can't be worse.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I fear your state of anger prevents you from receiving understanding of G-d's word.
Try a different approach and see if it helps. It can't be worse.

Just like your view of scripture your fear is based on non factual evidence or information.

Later.

Once again, Who is G_d?

 

[fredoheaven]

Hi fred,

You have not answered the verses I have quoted.
If you follow Jesus, repentance is a cornerstone.

We can change our mind about sin, maybe change it to sin is great, or it does not matter, or we are what we are.

So unfortunately what is called a platitude, something that appears to have value but says nothing is what
you have said.

22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along
with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2

As you are quoting Paul instructing Timothy on instructing them the right way to go in the Lord,
you need to include Pauls instruction on pursuing righteousness, faith, love and peace.

And in truth God grants people repentance, the ability to repent to see the need for sorrow, and to
walk in the ways of Christ.

I hope and pray this is your intention, that through repentance and faith, we might all walk the ways of Jesus.
God bless you

7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.

9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

In this passage of the Bible, repent simply means change of mind. While turn means change of direction. Because people of Nineveh turned from their evil way, God change his mind (repented) and turn away his fierce anger.

2 Corinthians 7:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Repent/ repentance is not a sorrow or to be sorry rather, it is a change of mind. We feel sorry and sorrowed about sin but if we fail to change your view about sin then we continue doing it. Nevertheless, godly sorrow worketh repentance (change of mind about sin) in this particular passage and bottom line: Repent means change of mind.

 

[preston39]

Just like your view of scripture your fear is based on non factual evidence or information.

Later.

Once again, Who is G_d?

What language did you want scripture references in?