What do you believe and why do you believe it?
- Thread starter Spectrox
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I almost fell into a hypnotic spell reading that one!
From what you've described I did have a similar experience leading up to my conversion process and after. But after a while I realised I could not differentiate those inner voices/feelings from myself. After several months, whenever I prayed I realised I was speaking to myself. There was no good evidence that there was an "other". And I became aware of problems with the Bible as an alleged authority.
From what you've described I did have a similar experience leading up to my conversion process and after. But after a while I realised I could not differentiate those inner voices/feelings from myself. After several months, whenever I prayed I realised I was speaking to myself. There was no good evidence that there was an "other". And I became aware of problems with the Bible as an alleged authority.
Go on then. But you would be trying to show that a lack of belief in something (God) is wrong. Will you be defining what the something (God) is and demonstrating that the something (God) warrants belief? This kind of goes back to my point that Christianity seems unable to demonstrate its own claims but instead tries to find something wrong with the unbeliever - a double negative - which is simply shifting the burden of proof. But don't let me hinder you. If you think you've got something then let us hear it.
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Interesting how what you have quoted (as my post) is actually information that was quoted BY my post. The content that I posted is actually nonexistent in the quote. I certainly hope that this was a foul up in the quoted post reply system (it happens) and not an intentional ploy to make it appear as if I was pushing some form of heresy.
This is how that conversation actually took place
I'm sorry, since you were talking about these measures as though you are qualified to judge and correct almighty sovereign God over them, I assumed you had some kind of knowledge about them.
But reality is that you are cursing God over things you don't actually understand or have a basis to judge?
I should have expected that tbh. The humanist atheistic evolutionary monism position requires that what you call 'reason' is only a predator/prey/reproduction feedback-loop-induced randomness of electrical pulse patterns in a temporary arrangement of basically mud under the psychosis that it is self aware and cognizant. It is shaped by survival pressure, which includes of course believing it is important and that it knows what its talking about, and being also shaped by pressure to find and attract suitable mates, it is inexorably vain. However it being nothing more than a random set of EM waves under the influence of random physical events, what it considers 'logical' has no epistemological basis to be considered as actually true.
With that in mind, of course you're talking nonsense, only making noise, and of course you don't think that's the case. Why would you? Natural selection demands that you consider your own thoughts authoritative, no matter how ridiculous they are from an objective standpoint - that's the snake eating itself. Humanism destroys its own logic by the basis on which it exalts itself, but can't admit that to itself, because admitting it's own fundamental derangement would be counterproductive to what it considers its own origin and motive force of 'existence' - what it calls existence, tho it is really only non existence waiting to be revealed as such, a temporary delusion of dust and EM waves consumed by self replicating self devourment.
Your paradigm, not mine.
I don't believe that rot at all, but the fundamentals of your belief system all humans are this way. We are nothing but a brief, meaningless static. That's your view of reality, if you were honest and thought it through.
Right … there certainly isn't any flaw in your understanding. 
You need a check-up from the neck up because you have been shown that there were flaws in your understanding of certain records. Yet you will not admit the veracity of Scripture concerning those two records. What is up with that?
Why is it so hard for you to consider that the error is on your part (due to misunderstanding the record)? What other error[ s ] do you carry in your heart which keep you from full comprehension of the Creator?
Why is it so hard for you to state "Scripture is accurate" in those instances where you were shown that it was, in fact, your understanding of the record which was in error? That is an area where you need to search your heart.
In searching your heart, try to get to the root of why you find it so difficult to admit error in your understanding of Scripture. Perhaps you will find a need on your part to tweak your understanding concerning Scripture. Start afresh with a heart accepting of the Creator. Those records where you find yourself drawing away from Him … put those aside for the time being. Allow the Author to reveal to you what you need to know at any given time and then move on from there.
You need a check-up from the neck up because you have been shown that there were flaws in your understanding of certain records. Yet you will not admit the veracity of Scripture concerning those two records. What is up with that?
Why is it so hard for you to consider that the error is on your part (due to misunderstanding the record)? What other error[ s ] do you carry in your heart which keep you from full comprehension of the Creator?
Why is it so hard for you to state "Scripture is accurate" in those instances where you were shown that it was, in fact, your understanding of the record which was in error? That is an area where you need to search your heart.
In searching your heart, try to get to the root of why you find it so difficult to admit error in your understanding of Scripture. Perhaps you will find a need on your part to tweak your understanding concerning Scripture. Start afresh with a heart accepting of the Creator. Those records where you find yourself drawing away from Him … put those aside for the time being. Allow the Author to reveal to you what you need to know at any given time and then move on from there.
It appears that you completely missed the point of my post. You argue that justice is proportional, but you overlook the reality of a boundless sin.
You have reasons for not believing that you find satisfactory. I assure you that they are not "good" for they will not excuse you from the justice that God holds for you. God understands evidence far better than you do; that's why He makes it clear that unbelievers are without excuse.
Cognitive dissonance is for those who refuse to think through the implications of their inadequate belief systems. I have found Christianity to be consistent and more than satisfactory intellectually, ethically, logically, historically, and morally. Islam and Mormonism are pathetic jokes in comparison.
You're stuck on genocide and slavery. Genocide, as you call it, was justice for a depth of sinfulness that only exists in novels (and abortion clinics) today. Slavery was limited by God, not endorsed wholesale.
You are still standing in judgment of God. That's not a place of wisdom.
You have reasons for not believing that you find satisfactory. I assure you that they are not "good" for they will not excuse you from the justice that God holds for you. God understands evidence far better than you do; that's why He makes it clear that unbelievers are without excuse.
Cognitive dissonance is for those who refuse to think through the implications of their inadequate belief systems. I have found Christianity to be consistent and more than satisfactory intellectually, ethically, logically, historically, and morally. Islam and Mormonism are pathetic jokes in comparison.
You're stuck on genocide and slavery. Genocide, as you call it, was justice for a depth of sinfulness that only exists in novels (and abortion clinics) today. Slavery was limited by God, not endorsed wholesale.
You are still standing in judgment of God. That's not a place of wisdom.
Really?
The voice I heard would teach me things I didn't know was in the bible, until I checked it out. Feelings don't do that.
There are words in the bible, interpreted as though there was a Greek or Hebrew word there, when there was not.
For example;
The bible talks about the old man, new man, spirit man, and hidden man.
These are real being in you that speak, among other things.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
It sounds like that hidden man of the hearts is that meek and quiet spirit, which is what I thought originally.
Until I was told there is no word "of" in the original language.
There is more than one word in the Greek for the word "of".
So that changed the meaning, entirely.
And the voice went on to tell me why he told me that and the real meaning of it.
Feelings don't yell or scream at you either.
And neither do feelings tell you what others are thinking or feeling in their heart.
Yes, many times it sounds like you are doing the talking, but that is where Jesus said, "My sheep KNOW my voice... "
It comes with time and experience I suppose.
But aside from that, my guess is, you NEVER saw God do a miracle, have you.
Like a real one that can't be explained away.
Have you ever been told, God says what He means, and means what He says?
Take Mark 11:24 for example.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
One reason why most people don't see God do any miracles is because they don't really believe what God said.
The above verse says, what ever YOU desire, shall be given to you, right?
Yes, but that is not the whole truth of this promise.
No, it doesn't have anything to do with what God's will is, like most are told.
God's will, according to this is to give you whatsoever YOU desire, IF, you follow through with the other conditions listed.
If you don't, I can guarantee you, absolutely NOTHING will happen, like it does for most ignorant Christians.
Most start out believing, because their faith hasn't been tested yet. And then they fall away or stop believing simply because nothing happened, like I said.
Many people die from wasting diseases, TRYING to believe. Saying they are believing, yet nothing happens.
There's a problem with that situation. Either what is written in the bible is a lie, which would mean, God lied, if you believe He wrote it through speaking to men of old, or the problem is with us.
And since most people can't handle the truth, along with, most don't know the truth, like most preacher, pastors, and teachers, they tell them, "it wasn't God's will for you or your loved one to be healed", and so they prepare the person to go "home" to be with the lord.
What a load of crap.
I could tell you a few reasons why both you and others failed to receive, and a lack of faith is not the only reason.
Most Christian are told their sins are automatically forgiven and therefore redeemed from the curses of both the law of sin and the law of death.
NOT!!!
So much ignorance in the church concerning the promises of God and how faith works.
Sickness CANNOT come on the righteous, only those who sin, because sin cause God to put a curse on the person, even Christians or believers, and therefore that gives the devil legal right to afflict the person with a sickness or disease.
You can't get rid of the sickness or disease, many times, until you get rid of the sin that causes the curse to come on you in the first place. If you did get rid of it without taking care of the sin, the condition WILL come back, guaranteed, only it will be worse than before, when it does.
You are no different than anyone else that TRIED to believe, "that faith stuff", and failed.
I have had a number of growths and condition leave or disappear, on myself and others, after praying or commanding the thing to leave, in Jesus' name. And that is because this faith stuff works. If it didn't, then nothing would happen.
At this point in my life, I both know and have experience, too much to be swayed from believing otherwise.
Had you got with someone who taught you the true truth from the start, you might not have been so easily turned from the truth of God's word.
If it works for both my family and I, as well as many others, it will do the same for you.
But just like it doesn't work for you, or at least, in your favor, neither does it work for all the so-called believers, or unbelieving/doubting Christian.
Hoping, wishing, and/or wondering won't cut it. It never has, and it never will.
But when you meet all the conditions of whatever promise you are standing on, God NEVER, EVER, EVER fails to do what He said He will do.
The voice I heard would teach me things I didn't know was in the bible, until I checked it out. Feelings don't do that.
There are words in the bible, interpreted as though there was a Greek or Hebrew word there, when there was not.
For example;
The bible talks about the old man, new man, spirit man, and hidden man.
These are real being in you that speak, among other things.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
It sounds like that hidden man of the hearts is that meek and quiet spirit, which is what I thought originally.
Until I was told there is no word "of" in the original language.
There is more than one word in the Greek for the word "of".
So that changed the meaning, entirely.
And the voice went on to tell me why he told me that and the real meaning of it.
Feelings don't yell or scream at you either.
And neither do feelings tell you what others are thinking or feeling in their heart.
Yes, many times it sounds like you are doing the talking, but that is where Jesus said, "My sheep KNOW my voice... "
It comes with time and experience I suppose.
But aside from that, my guess is, you NEVER saw God do a miracle, have you.
Like a real one that can't be explained away.
Have you ever been told, God says what He means, and means what He says?
Take Mark 11:24 for example.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
One reason why most people don't see God do any miracles is because they don't really believe what God said.
The above verse says, what ever YOU desire, shall be given to you, right?
Yes, but that is not the whole truth of this promise.
No, it doesn't have anything to do with what God's will is, like most are told.
God's will, according to this is to give you whatsoever YOU desire, IF, you follow through with the other conditions listed.
If you don't, I can guarantee you, absolutely NOTHING will happen, like it does for most ignorant Christians.
Most start out believing, because their faith hasn't been tested yet. And then they fall away or stop believing simply because nothing happened, like I said.
Many people die from wasting diseases, TRYING to believe. Saying they are believing, yet nothing happens.
There's a problem with that situation. Either what is written in the bible is a lie, which would mean, God lied, if you believe He wrote it through speaking to men of old, or the problem is with us.
And since most people can't handle the truth, along with, most don't know the truth, like most preacher, pastors, and teachers, they tell them, "it wasn't God's will for you or your loved one to be healed", and so they prepare the person to go "home" to be with the lord.
What a load of crap.
I could tell you a few reasons why both you and others failed to receive, and a lack of faith is not the only reason.
Most Christian are told their sins are automatically forgiven and therefore redeemed from the curses of both the law of sin and the law of death.
NOT!!!
So much ignorance in the church concerning the promises of God and how faith works.
Sickness CANNOT come on the righteous, only those who sin, because sin cause God to put a curse on the person, even Christians or believers, and therefore that gives the devil legal right to afflict the person with a sickness or disease.
You can't get rid of the sickness or disease, many times, until you get rid of the sin that causes the curse to come on you in the first place. If you did get rid of it without taking care of the sin, the condition WILL come back, guaranteed, only it will be worse than before, when it does.
You are no different than anyone else that TRIED to believe, "that faith stuff", and failed.
I have had a number of growths and condition leave or disappear, on myself and others, after praying or commanding the thing to leave, in Jesus' name. And that is because this faith stuff works. If it didn't, then nothing would happen.
At this point in my life, I both know and have experience, too much to be swayed from believing otherwise.
Had you got with someone who taught you the true truth from the start, you might not have been so easily turned from the truth of God's word.
If it works for both my family and I, as well as many others, it will do the same for you.
But just like it doesn't work for you, or at least, in your favor, neither does it work for all the so-called believers, or unbelieving/doubting Christian.
Hoping, wishing, and/or wondering won't cut it. It never has, and it never will.
But when you meet all the conditions of whatever promise you are standing on, God NEVER, EVER, EVER fails to do what He said He will do.
Co 5:14 The love of the Messiah controls us, for we are convinced of this: that one person died for all people; therefore, all people have died.
2Co 5:15 He died for all people, so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for the one who died and rose for them.
2Co 5:16 So then, from now on we do not think of anyone from a human point of view. Even if we did think of the Messiah from a human point of view, we don't think of him that way anymore.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become new!
2Co 5:18 All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to himself through the Messiah and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are the Messiah's representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah's behalf: "Be reconciled to God!"
2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.
God holds nothing against anyone because of the obedience of His Son. But one thing and only one thing would keep a person from partaking of His goodness and that is unbelief. Failure to believe this word and receive His intercession on your behalf.
So what charge can anyone direct at the Lord in light of this truth?
2Co 5:15 He died for all people, so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for the one who died and rose for them.
2Co 5:16 So then, from now on we do not think of anyone from a human point of view. Even if we did think of the Messiah from a human point of view, we don't think of him that way anymore.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become new!
2Co 5:18 All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to himself through the Messiah and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are the Messiah's representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah's behalf: "Be reconciled to God!"
2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.
God holds nothing against anyone because of the obedience of His Son. But one thing and only one thing would keep a person from partaking of His goodness and that is unbelief. Failure to believe this word and receive His intercession on your behalf.
So what charge can anyone direct at the Lord in light of this truth?