Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Noose]

Jesus NEVER knew these many people (Matthew 7:23) which means they were NEVER saved. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It is not what Jesus thought that is bad, it is what these people thought that was misleading.

Luke 13:25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27And he will answer, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.’

 

[Noose]

Our part is to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Through faith, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). Jesus Christ receives 100% credit for our salvation.

But we do have 'our part' right? we help Him to help us and then He receives 100 credit.

No matter the numbers you are trying to put out here, your salvation is not free at all if we have a part to play.
What happens if we don't play our part?

 

[Noose]

of course, little children simply means humility, that means to accept you are nothing and simply cling to Christ.

Well, the statement that salvation is by faith in Christ alone doesn't hold then because these children in some other way which Jesus also recommends for us. I reckon faith and belief in Christ is not the idea that one pictures Christ on the cross and murmurs something but love for one another.

 

[Noose]

When Paul mentions justification, he means the act of God whereby he declares the believing sinner

James on the other hand to means give evidence or proof.

James says, “show me thy faith” James 2:18

Seest thou how faith wrought with works and by works was faith made perfect. James 2:22



Paul also looks at life from God’s perspective while James looks of life from a human perspective. He uses daily food, needful to the body.

James 2:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

You also needs to look at things from human perspective.

 

[Noose]

Jesus says let the little children come to me. Two-year-olds who die have salvation because Jesus desires it. On another note, we see in Isaiah 57 that sometimes God has young people die in order to save them from a future which would’ve been too much for them to handle. If God is merciful to such individuals then clearly He grants such individuals salvation.

You need to quote that Isaiah passage which says God has young people die in order to save them from future.

If two year old are saved through some other means then the statement that salvation is by faith in Christ alone is already wrong.
I personally want this other method because Jesus Himself recommends it for us grown ups.

 

[Lightskin]

You need to quote that Isaiah passage which says God has young people die in order to save them from future.

If two year old are saved through some other means then the statement that salvation is by faith in Christ alone is already wrong.
I personally want this other method because Jesus Himself recommends it for us grown ups.

The first two verses. Read it yourself. Now why don’t you state the reason why two year olds who die are not saved. If you’re going to say original sin, give it a break. Jesus’ death covered it. Try again.

 

[Noose]

The first two verses. Read it yourself. Now why don’t you state the reason why two year olds who die are not saved. If you’re going to say original sin, give it a break. Jesus’ death covered it. Try again.

Where is the verse in Isaiah that speaks anything about God having young ones die to save them from the future?

 

[Noose]

The first two verses. Read it yourself. Now why don’t you state the reason why two year olds who die are not saved. If you’re going to say original sin, give it a break. Jesus’ death covered it. Try again.

Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
devout men are swept away,
while no one considers
that the righteous are guided
from the presence of evil.

2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace;
they find rest, lying down in death.

This has nothing to do with what you are proposing.

 

[mailmandan]

It is not what Jesus thought that is bad, it is what these people thought that was misleading.

Luke 13:25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27And he will answer, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.’

Those people thought they were righteous based on their works, but were not genuine converts who trusted in Christ alone for salvation. Apart from the righteousness which is of God by faith, their sin remains, hence the evildoers.

 

[mailmandan]

But we do have 'our part' right? we help Him to help us and then He receives 100 credit.

No matter the numbers you are trying to put out here, your salvation is not free at all if we have a part to play.
What happens if we don't play our part?

You are making our part out to be more extensive, complicated and difficult than it really is.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, we never stop being God's children and He never stops loving us BUT He allows us to use our free will to choose to come to Him and stay with Him or to come to Him and later leave Him but return in time as did the prodigal son or to come to Him and later leave Him and never return to Him. The latter are still His children and He still loves them but He hates their sinfulness and in His JUSTICE, He will allow them to suffer the consequences of the actions they chose to take and remain taking. Heaven will be only for the righteous, not the unrighteous and for the victorious not unvictorious and for the good not the evil and for those who endured as needed not those who gave up and despaired. BUT when we go astray we can always return and be restored IF we genuinely repent. The only sin we can commit that can never ever be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All other sins can and will be forgiven, forgotten, and not punished IF only we repent of them.

I believe that I ask you to let me know how you interpret John 6:38 and, If you did, I must have overlooked it. Can you give me an idea of what that scripture means to you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are making our part out to be more extensive, complicated and difficult than it really is.

if we have a part

we are not saved by grace (Gods part) but by works. (our part)

 

[Noose]

You are making our part out to be more extensive, complicated and difficult than it really is.

You who thinks you have a very small (negligible) part to play and those that have very serious works are one and the same. You have to clear the forest in your eyes so that you can see the speck in your brothers eyes.

But if you can tell me how a child is saved, then i'll take that because kind is freely given.

 

[Noose]

Those people thought they were righteous based on their works, but were not genuine converts who trusted in Christ alone for salvation. Apart from the righteousness which is of God by faith, their sin remains, hence the evildoers.

Nope.

Judgement is about what you did or did not do

Matt 25:
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Lightskin]

Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
devout men are swept away,
while no one considers
that the righteous are guided
from the presence of evil.

2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace;
they find rest, lying down in death.

This has nothing to do with what you are proposing.

You simply don’t understand what you’re reading.

 

[Noose]

You are making our part out to be more extensive, complicated and difficult than it really is.

Judgement is always about what you did and never what you thought.

Rev 20:
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.


Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

Faith is not some thoughts but the works of love.

 

[Noose]

You simply don’t understand what you’re reading.

Your proposal is fake. That children die so that they don't face the future, then why are you and adult?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I was saying what three OSAS believing Christians responded to my question and they clearly would see no need to repent for murder and for allowing an innocent person to be executed for the murder they committed .. I know many OSAS believers who say the same about sinning in that they believe they are saved so no matter how much they sin and do not repent, they remain saved .. I disagree with them 100%

A persons belief in the scriptures must be based on how he interprets them. The scriptures must all harmonize to be the doctrine that Jesus taught. If you would give a scripture back up with book, chapter and verse, of your belief statements, we could explain to you more clearly why we disagree with you. I have ask you to tell me how you interpret certain scriptures, such as John 6:38, and you will not even acknowledge that you have been ask the question. There is no point in anyone commenting about your posts unless you give scripture back up for your belief's. I am sure that the people on this forum would enjoy conversing with you if you would give us some book, chapter and verse scriptures of what you are telling us that you believe. The Holy Spirit within us will help to reveal the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught only if we study the inspired word (scriptures) of God.

 

[BillG]

Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

Faith is not some thoughts but the works of love.

What is the endurance being called for here.

Is it

Revelation 14:9-11
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

I think it relates to the mark of the beast and not to the commands you talk about.

Hence v13 because they will be killed for not taking the mark of the beast.

 

[fredoheaven]

Not everyone who is not religious is not saved.

Matt 25:
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

You forgot, that this passage refers to the righteous and in no way denying it, but as Christ said not all who says, Lord, Lord will is saved. Even the religious Nicodemus is lost and that's the point in the previous post.