Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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E
No, i am proposing that morality was possible before the law, and as such, if the law was never given men could stull be morally upright in their actions, just as Abraham, jonah, adam and Eve (post fall), etc etc.
The law was given to condemn us, to prove to us that we can not even keep these ten commands, let alone live up to gods standard which is perfection (not one sin, for all have sinned and fall short)
All it takes is one sin to condemn, but as paul said, before the law was given sin could not be charged. After, there was no excuse.
The law was given to condemn us, to prove to us that we can not even keep these ten commands, let alone live up to gods standard which is perfection (not one sin, for all have sinned and fall short)
All it takes is one sin to condemn, but as paul said, before the law was given sin could not be charged. After, there was no excuse.
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When he says we establish the law he means that our Faith in Christ and what is written on our Hearts and Minds when we are reborn is what the Law intended all along. It Establishes the Law. Even though we aren't working at it like the Jewish nation.
The Spirit of the Law and not the Letter of the Law.
The Spirit of the Law and not the Letter of the Law.
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I mean this with respect, but making a statement like that on its own merit is too subjective on the definition of what it is to love. For example, by using that statement, we can conclude, for example, a close family having sex with each other is okay as long as they love God and love their neighbor. Aleister Crowly, for example, took that same statement and concludes that we can do whatever we want to, as long as we love. In fact, the alphabet people loves to use this word "love" to justify their actions.
It becomes, however, objective when you read that in context, and find that Jesus was quoting from Deut 6:4 and Lev 19:18; and both passages defines loving God and your neighbor to Jehovah's instructions in doing that which is right.
This is unintelligible to me. If sin is the transgression of the law, then by definition if one keeps the law, he or she is not sinning, and if one doesn't keep the law, he or she is sinning.
It becomes, however, objective when you read that in context, and find that Jesus was quoting from Deut 6:4 and Lev 19:18; and both passages defines loving God and your neighbor to Jehovah's instructions in doing that which is right.
This is unintelligible to me. If sin is the transgression of the law, then by definition if one keeps the law, he or she is not sinning, and if one doesn't keep the law, he or she is sinning.
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E
Its only subjective if we take the english word into account, and also if we fail to see scripture as we love as god love us (sacrificial love) and also if you read my post, love is describes as any thought or action which is not selfish or canal in nature.
In your example, no true believer would think this, because they know this is not loving God with all their heart, they would onow these were selfish acts of pleasure.
And ps, god said to love your enemy,
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This is unintelligible to me. If sin is the transgression of the law, then by definition if one keeps the law, he or she is not sinning, and if one doesn't keep the law, he or she is sinning.[/QUOTE]
Yet jesus said in his sermon, the law says to not commit adultery, nut he said if you even look at a woman with lust,
The law does not give you every possible sin you can commit, and does not even give instructions on every possible way to break each command or how to keep them,
The law was not given for that purpose (gal 3)
The law is given to prove we are sinners prove we are cursed, and show us the means of atonement (sacrifice) which was to lead us to christ.
In your example, no true believer would think this, because they know this is not loving God with all their heart, they would onow these were selfish acts of pleasure.
And ps, god said to love your enemy,
[/quote]
This is unintelligible to me. If sin is the transgression of the law, then by definition if one keeps the law, he or she is not sinning, and if one doesn't keep the law, he or she is sinning.[/QUOTE]
Yet jesus said in his sermon, the law says to not commit adultery, nut he said if you even look at a woman with lust,
The law does not give you every possible sin you can commit, and does not even give instructions on every possible way to break each command or how to keep them,
The law was not given for that purpose (gal 3)
The law is given to prove we are sinners prove we are cursed, and show us the means of atonement (sacrifice) which was to lead us to christ.
It would help to know who is being referred to in those citations if you would consider that YHWH gave The Northern Kingdom of Israel a writ of Divorcement and put them out of His House. Jer 3:8.
The "put them out of His House" part was first, the Assyrian captivity/exile, and then the scattering throughout the nations. Amos 9:9
The Northern Kingdom of "Israel" was "no more" and those tribes were no longer called "Israel" nor were they anywhere in Gods House. Yahshua made it clear that He was sent "Only for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" and sent them with the "Good News"
Is it your understanding that all the tribes of Israel were in Palestine?
Do you think that they had returned from exile by the time of Yahshua?
SG
That doesn't make sense to me. Because if that is the case, then I would argue it best that God never gave mankind the standard of morality, so that we can plead ignorance to it. But Canaan demonstrates that this isn't the case. They were judged by the laws God now gave to Israel, and He told Israel that the same will happen to Israel if they break the law as Canaan did.
I don't understand how informing someone that it is wrong to do something is to, at the same time, give him condemnation. Evil is evil, and good is good, the only thing that is changeable here is our indifference to it.
I don't understand how informing someone that it is wrong to do something is to, at the same time, give him condemnation. Evil is evil, and good is good, the only thing that is changeable here is our indifference to it.
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Welcome to Christian Chat, FS!
Correct, but we often forget that after the resurrection Jesus used Paul to speak to us.
Galatians 1:11
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
During His earthly ministry Jesus taught obedience to the Law of Moses because this law was still in force (Jesus had not yet died). The transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant didn't happen overnight. Paul was called some 3 years after the crucifixion and the Council of Jerusalem (which released Christians from the Law) took place roughly 15 years into the New Era.
As I just said Jesus taught obedience to the Law, and now let's see what Paul wrote:
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
See? Is Paul contradicting Jesus? Not at all. Paul was a slave of Christ and he was only relaying a message received from his Master. Did Jesus then contradict Himself? No, this is not a contradiction; it is a new law. I don't think a new law contradicts a previous one; a new law replaces an old one.
Correct, but we often forget that after the resurrection Jesus used Paul to speak to us.
Galatians 1:11
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
During His earthly ministry Jesus taught obedience to the Law of Moses because this law was still in force (Jesus had not yet died). The transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant didn't happen overnight. Paul was called some 3 years after the crucifixion and the Council of Jerusalem (which released Christians from the Law) took place roughly 15 years into the New Era.
As I just said Jesus taught obedience to the Law, and now let's see what Paul wrote:
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
See? Is Paul contradicting Jesus? Not at all. Paul was a slave of Christ and he was only relaying a message received from his Master. Did Jesus then contradict Himself? No, this is not a contradiction; it is a new law. I don't think a new law contradicts a previous one; a new law replaces an old one.
E
The law is established by faith
When i come to faith, i establish that the law is righteous and it is just.
It places me under a curse because i have failed to keep every word as god through moses commanded,
And it shows me the means of atonement and leads me directly to the lamb of god who was hing on a tree for my sins.
It humbles me, and destroys any pride with in me, and leads me as the tax collector to get on my knees and call out to god
That establishes the law
When i come to faith, i establish that the law is righteous and it is just.
It places me under a curse because i have failed to keep every word as god through moses commanded,
And it shows me the means of atonement and leads me directly to the lamb of god who was hing on a tree for my sins.
It humbles me, and destroys any pride with in me, and leads me as the tax collector to get on my knees and call out to god
That establishes the law
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As demonstrated, your position still remains subjective. I prefer to have the Word's standard of morality attached to it to make it explicit.
Jesus is the Word of God (The law and the prophets) manifested in the flesh, so it is only natural that He would teach to keep the law even within the heart.
This makes no sense to me. Knowing what is good and evil doesn't prove we are cursed. I would argue that knowing what is good and evil gives us the knowledge to do that which is good.
Jesus is the Word of God (The law and the prophets) manifested in the flesh, so it is only natural that He would teach to keep the law even within the heart.
This makes no sense to me. Knowing what is good and evil doesn't prove we are cursed. I would argue that knowing what is good and evil gives us the knowledge to do that which is good.
E
God gave the law to moses why? As a schoolmaster to lead them to christ
Everyone else understood what true sin was, but as paul said, no one can judge where there is no law.
The law was given to condemn, not to teach how to be holy or be righteous,
If there was not a sign that said speed limit 65: a person could drive 100 and no one could judge him because there was no law which told him what to do
All laws are for that purpose
Everyone else understood what true sin was, but as paul said, no one can judge where there is no law.
The law was given to condemn, not to teach how to be holy or be righteous,
If there was not a sign that said speed limit 65: a person could drive 100 and no one could judge him because there was no law which told him what to do
All laws are for that purpose
I agree that there were some from every tribe there as they had freely intermarried across tribes, but as far as the "tribes" themselves they were "sent away" from how I read it. Those "representatives" you speak of, can you give me the scripture that indicates they were there as representatives. I cannot seem to find it readily. Thanks
