Taxing the rich?

[jaybird88]

Wow this is far from factual.

For your information this is absolutely FALSE.... it was the presidential executive orders that created and sustained double digit unemployment for a decade in the 30's!!

you think the people demanding their government to make rules for the rich industries is false? wow!!
ok im gonna explain this again. 1900, there are no rules, the rich tycoons can do whatever they like, 1900s,20s,30s are some of the worst years ever. 1930s process of change begins.
40s,50s,60s some of the best years ever

what happened in the 30s? are you saying the people and the government had nothing to do with anything? the industries leaders, out of the goodness of their own heart just all of a sudden started increasing wages, giving more days off, more vacation, more safety, etc, they did all of this on their own without any arm twisting at all?? this would be a first in the history of humanity

What tax money does Walmart steal... can you be specific?

gov subsidies

 

[jaybird88]

I always chuckle when people claim that the rollback of regulation is what has caused the supposed shrinking middle class when in reality what has changed is what classifies someone as middle class.

In the 70's the vast majority of "middle class households had 1 car, 1 color TV, 1 landline, no computer, (you get the idea), the average home was 1,100 sq ft.
Now in 2019 that same household has at least 2 cars, multiple large flat screen TV's, a cell phone for every family member above 10 or 12, numerous computers and the average home size is 2500 sq ft.

Cars cost a lot more (compared to income regardless of inflation) because what was considered the "base" model is the 70's (manual windows and door locks, no AC, manual trans, manual steering, AM/FM radio only) doesn't exist any more and all those features forced in by regulation (that used to be optional) such as air bags, ABS, along with minimum fuel economy standards drive up the cost of manufacturing that vehicle. I'm not arguing that safety features are a bad thing, just that they drive up the cost of a vehicle.

Homes (even a small home) costs more to build today than they did in the 70's due to similar regulatory causes. Most homes in the 70's were framed with 2x4 exterior walls and had single pane windows. Now national code requires a minimum of a 2x6 exterior wall (to allow for more insulation), double pane windows, and increased insulation standards for attics. Increased efficiency standards has driven up the cost of furnaces, hot water heaters and other home appliances. Increased electricity usage (due to all the extra electric toys we have now) means that the average home has a boat load more outlets and wire in the same square footage.

Simply put, yes the cost of living has dramatically increased in relation to wages but in reality not so much as you would think if you were to consider the fact that the standard of living has changed dramatically.

i always get a chuckle when the rollbacks, economy collapses, and rich get richer at a higher rate than ever, all happen at the exact same time and people think there is no connection.

 

[Oncefallen]

i always get a chuckle when the rollbacks, economy collapses, and rich get richer at a higher rate than ever, all happen at the exact same time and people think there is no connection.

People seem to forget about inflation and how much the US dollar has devalued over the decades.

Bill Gates is worth 105.8 Billion dollars
Steve Jobs (at his death) was worth 10 billion
Jeff Bezos is worth 113.7 billion
Mark Zuckerberg is worth 70 billion

Rockefeller was worth (when adjusted for inflation) 340 billion

Of course each of those men doesn't have the vast majority of that wealth "in the bank" it is in their business in the form of buildings, equipment, merchandise, etc. Their net worth is astronomical because the size of their companies is astronomical.

 

[SpoonJuly]

i guess us small town people dont count?
the role the consumer plays only makes walmart just another retailer. when walmart starts with their shady biz practices is what places them above the rest.
the grand opening could not have happened without the tax money walmart steals from the common working man.

NO---
The grand opining would have failed if the consumer refused to enter and spent their hard earned dollars.
You seen to lack any understanding of how retail works.
A retail stores only stays open if the consumer enters and spends their money and it is the consumer's choice.
Is there a Walmart in your town? How many business have closed since Walmart opened in your town?
If you want Walmart to leave , stop shopping there and encourage all your neighbors to do the same.
All retailers have a "break even" sales necessary to stay in business.
If enough stop shopping, not necessarily all, the business will close.

I never said that small town people don't count. I live in a very small town.
But you need to stop putting all the blame on Walmart or who ever you want to blame and accept your own guilt in the state of the world.

 

[UnderGrace]

I always chuckle when people claim that the rollback of regulation is what has caused the supposed shrinking middle class when in reality what has changed is what classifies someone as middle class.

In the 70's the vast majority of "middle class households had 1 car, 1 color TV, 1 landline, no computer, (you get the idea), the average home was 1,100 sq ft.
Now in 2019 that same household has at least 2 cars, multiple large flat screen TV's, a cell phone for every family member above 10 or 12, numerous computers and the average home size is 2500 sq ft.

Cars cost a lot more (compared to income regardless of inflation) because what was considered the "base" model is the 70's (manual windows and door locks, no AC, manual trans, manual steering, AM/FM radio only) doesn't exist any more and all those features forced in by regulation (that used to be optional) such as air bags, ABS, along with minimum fuel economy standards drive up the cost of manufacturing that vehicle. I'm not arguing that safety features are a bad thing, just that they drive up the cost of a vehicle.

Homes (even a small home) costs more to build today than they did in the 70's due to similar regulatory causes. Most homes in the 70's were framed with 2x4 exterior walls and had single pane windows. Now national code requires a minimum of a 2x6 exterior wall (to allow for more insulation), double pane windows, and increased insulation standards for attics. Increased efficiency standards has driven up the cost of furnaces, hot water heaters and other home appliances. Increased electricity usage (due to all the extra electric toys we have now) means that the average home has a boat load more outlets and wire in the same square footage.

Simply put, yes the cost of living has dramatically increased in relation to wages but in reality not so much as you would think if you were to consider the fact that the standard of living has changed dramatically.

When comes to these realities people's perceptions and beliefs always trump the facts, sadly.
People's standard of living has increased over the years.
The facts are the facts.

 

[calibob]

In the 70's the vast majority of "middle class households had 1 car, 1 color TV, 1 landline, no computer, (you get the idea), the average home was 1,100 sq ft.

Simply put, yes the cost of living has dramatically increased in relation to wages but in reality not so much as you would think if you were to consider the fact that the standard of living has changed dramatically.

Oh, I didn't realize it had changed. Mine still is the first sentence but the computer has replaced TV and cell phones have replaced land lines. Unfortunately the School district has stopped issuing books so high school kids must have online access.

I feel driving is an unnecessary expense for me. I take the bus usually 2-3 times a month for banking shopping and paying bills.

The home we rent was built in the 60's Our standard of living hasn't changed much except that we have an electric stove, oven, air conditioning, forced air heat and a clothes drier now.

 

[UnderGrace]

you think the people demanding their government to make rules for the rich industries is false? wow!!
ok im gonna explain this again. 1900, there are no rules, the rich tycoons can do whatever they like, 1900s,20s,30s are some of the worst years ever. 1930s process of change begins.
40s,50s,60s some of the best years ever

what happened in the 30s? are you saying the people and the government had nothing to do with anything? the industries leaders, out of the goodness of their own heart just all of a sudden started increasing wages, giving more days off, more vacation, more safety, etc, they did all of this on their own without any arm twisting at all?? this would be a first in the history of humanity


gov subsidies

The years at the turn of the century and into the 1900's were times of growth and innovation... check your facts.

The reality of what happened during that time period of the 30's, there is math and science behind economics and hind sight is 20/20 and a economist with integrity will tell the truth of the failure of government policies which only made the situation worse for a longer period of time which could have been a shorter period of time.

Show me the paperwork where Walmart is subdized by the government and in what capacity?

 

[calibob]

Oh, I forgot. My daughter and son in law live in the same home But it's close to 2000 sq ft w/3 daughters in high school makes $13 per hr and drives a 5 year old Dodge minivan.

My son has about a 40 year old 1200 squ ft home earns $15 per hr and drives a 3 year old pickup. But he get's VA disability also.

 

[calibob]

Oh,My son has about a 40 year old 1200 squ ft home

Edit 2019- 1969 = a 50 year old home. Very middle class in my opinion.

 

[jaybird88]

NO---
The grand opining would have failed if the consumer refused to enter and spent their hard earned dollars.
You seen to lack any understanding of how retail works.
A retail stores only stays open if the consumer enters and spends their money and it is the consumer's choice.
Is there a Walmart in your town? How many business have closed since Walmart opened in your town?
If you want Walmart to leave , stop shopping there and encourage all your neighbors to do the same.
All retailers have a "break even" sales necessary to stay in business.
If enough stop shopping, not necessarily all, the business will close.

I never said that small town people don't count. I live in a very small town.
But you need to stop putting all the blame on Walmart or who ever you want to blame and accept your own guilt in the state of the world.

they cant refuse to enter or their kids starve to death because there is no other store because walmart drove them out.

 

[jaybird88]

The years at the turn of the century and into the 1900's were times of growth and innovation... check your facts.

The reality of what happened during that time period of the 30's, there is math and science behind economics and hind sight is 20/20 and a economist with integrity will tell the truth of the failure of government policies which only made the situation worse for a longer period of time which could have been a shorter period of time.

Show me the paperwork where Walmart is subdized by the government and in what capacity?

math and science have been around from the times of plato and euclid.
math, science, growth and innovation are great, what exactly were there role when carnegie steel hired private mercenaries to gun down workers who were on strike? or working for the company store? im not getting what one has to do with the other. its like saying people were payed very low wages but more men back then wore overalls.

government subs - go to google and enter "government subsidies corporations" and pick an article. most of what i say here is going off memory, one thing i remember from several years back is welfare for rich is much more than what it is for the poor.

 

[calibob]

The years at the turn of the century and into the 1900's were times of growth and innovation... check your facts.

The reality of what happened during that time period of the 30's, there is math and science behind economics and hind sight is 20/20 and a economist with integrity will tell the truth of the failure of government policies which only made the situation worse for a longer period of time which could have been a shorter period of time.

Show me the paperwork where Walmart is subdized by the government and in what capacity?

Because they don't provide the hours, pay or benefits in ratio to the cost of living that my generation's parents had when we were growing up. Employees must turn to government assistance to get what large retail and grocery stores used to provide. Employees held on to their jobs much more tightly because they didn't want to lose health, credit union or pension benefits. They didn't have to "buy in" or contribute, just keep working and coming to work. The taxpayers are picking up the expenses that the employers used to provide.

@SpoonJuly I'll admit there's a huge cultural difference between us. I was raised in the city by a factory worker. All my uncles belonged to unions. Retirement planning was pay for your house till it's mortgage free and collect the Social Security benefits that were paid for all those years of working, plus the retirement benefits that the companies provided. I was in and out of the Air Force before I met anybody that was still in the farming business. Agriculture was never an elective in any school I ever attended but gardening/landscaping was a required 5 week course for boys in Jr. High. I've never touched a cow in my life.

Everywhere I've lived had hydro electric, nuclear, natural gas and now wind powered electricity. Never coal. To me 100,000 people is a small town and I miss having a 24/7 public bus system. Maybe those days are gone. I hope not, life was better then.

I still think unrestricted banking and wall street is a SUPER BAD IDEA. I'm still against Trump even more than either Bushes or Ronald (Bonzo) Reagan but I'd rather have Trump than Rush Limbaugh, Ben Shapiro, or Bernie Sanders. I no longer get a political news feed so beside Joe Biden & Nancy Pelosi, I don't know who's running.

@PennEd What I posted about the Antichrist, the banks, the EU and the Beast came from mid 1980's Charismatic Christian Conspiracy theories. One of the major ones was that the European Common Market, now the EU would be taken over by a coalition of the World Bank, Oil companies, Vatican Bank and the Free Masons. Something like a UPC mark would be tattooed on our hands or heads and the Petro dollar would replace the gold standard. Of course the UPC symbol theory was replaced by the RFID implant. This does not come from my mind, I heard it at church! I however got tired of end times theology, doctrines and conspiracy theories. I turned my attention to Salvation and recovery and since the Book of Revelation is the unchangeable truth for mankind, the unsaved will be destroyed soon. Teaching people to concentrate on Jesus is the most important thing we can do to keep them from perishing.

I'm sorry that I got you all angry. But threads like this and who's voting for Trump are like train wrecks to me; I have a difficult time not looking. I just want to stop and drag people out. Good luck: you still have 5 years left to rebuke anti Trumpists like me if he gets re elected and not impeached or relieved of duty somehow.

The end of the world is coming soon. Jesus said so. I have decided to oppose politics. I love people more than any nation or party now and my love for others grows every day. I'll try and stay out of it, but it is as difficult as stopping any other bad habit. I'll have to ask the Lord to help me. TTFN. Cali.

 

[SpoonJuly]

People seem to forget about inflation and how much the US dollar has devalued over the decades.

Bill Gates is worth 105.8 Billion dollars
Steve Jobs (at his death) was worth 10 billion
Jeff Bezos is worth 113.7 billion
Mark Zuckerberg is worth 70 billion

Rockefeller was worth (when adjusted for inflation) 340 billion

Of course each of those men doesn't have the vast majority of that wealth "in the bank" it is in their business in the form of buildings, equipment, merchandise, etc. Their net worth is astronomical because the size of their companies is astronomical.

Because they don't provide the hours, pay or benefits in ratio to the cost of living that my generation's parents had when we were growing up. Employees must turn to government assistance to get what large retail and grocery stores used to provide. Employees held on to their jobs much more tightly because they didn't want to lose health, credit union or pension benefits. They didn't have to "buy in" or contribute, just keep working and coming to work. The taxpayers are picking up the expenses that the employers used to provide.

@SpoonJuly I'll admit there's a huge cultural difference between us. I was raised in the city by a factory worker. All my uncles belonged to unions. Retirement planning was pay for your house till it's mortgage free and collect the Social Security benefits that were paid for all those years of working, plus the retirement benefits that the companies provided. I was in and out of the Air Force before I met anybody that was still in the farming business. Agriculture was never an elective in any school I ever attended but gardening/landscaping was a required 5 week course for boys in Jr. High. I've never touched a cow in my life.

Everywhere I've lived had hydro electric, nuclear, natural gas and now wind powered electricity. Never coal. To me 100,000 people is a small town and I miss having a 24/7 public bus system. Maybe those days are gone. I hope not, life was better then.

I still think unrestricted banking and wall street is a SUPER BAD IDEA. I'm still against Trump even more than either Bushes or Ronald (Bonzo) Reagan but I'd rather have Trump than Rush Limbaugh, Ben Shapiro, or Bernie Sanders. I no longer get a political news feed so beside Joe Biden & Nancy Pelosi, I don't know who's running.

@PennEd What I posted about the Antichrist, the banks, the EU and the Beast came from mid 1980's Charismatic Christian Conspiracy theories. One of the major ones was that the European Common Market, now the EU would be taken over by a coalition of the World Bank, Oil companies, Vatican Bank and the Free Masons. Something like a UPC mark would be tattooed on our hands or heads and the Petro dollar would replace the gold standard. Of course the UPC symbol theory was replaced by the RFID implant. This does not come from my mind, I heard it at church! I however got tired of end times theology, doctrines and conspiracy theories. I turned my attention to Salvation and recovery and since the Book of Revelation is the unchangeable truth for mankind, the unsaved will be destroyed soon. Teaching people to concentrate on Jesus is the most important thing we can do to keep them from perishing.

I'm sorry that I got you all angry. But threads like this and who's voting for Trump are like train wrecks to me; I have a difficult time not looking. I just want to stop and drag people out. Good luck: you still have 5 years left to rebuke anti Trumpists like me if he gets re elected and not impeached or relieved of duty somehow.

The end of the world is coming soon. Jesus said so. I have decided to oppose politics. I love people more than any nation or party now and my love for others grows every day. I'll try and stay out of it, but it is as difficult as stopping any other bad habit. I'll have to ask the Lord to help me. TTFN. Cali.

Your post never anger me. We agree on many things.
We were raised in very different worlds it seems.
I was taught to depend on God and your own sweat to provide for yourself, your family, and to help those in need. It was not the government's responsibility nor anyone else's. Anyone who did not do so was not a man or a Christian.
I was also taught that we all have a part in what happens in this world, both good and bad, and must accept full responsibility for our part.
What angers me is when people refuse to see and accept their part and want to always blame others and big companies for all the worlds problems.
Jaybird refuses to see that Walmart would never have become the world's largest retailer if not for the consumer making that a fact. No consumer, no Walmart.

I made the point that if people did not shop at walmart when they had their grand opening they would close and his answer was " they had no choice".
Yes they do have a choice. They were shopping at other retailers before Walmart moved in and had that grand opening but choose to take their business to Walmart. So that community of consumers must accept some of the responsibility for the failure of the other retailers in their city and the success of Walmart.
He is one of those who always wants to blame others and refuses to see his part in the problem.

I am not a fan of Trump. Did not vote for him on Clinton. Did not see either as being worthy of my vote.
I am not a fan of Walmart. If they depended on my shopping they would have gone out of business long ago.
But most folks love shopping at Walmart, buying their cheap products, because that gives them more money to buy their toys and things they do not really need.

I agree that the end is near and people need to be more concerned with their fellowship with God than being obsessed with how evil and wicked Walmart and all those rich folks are.

 

[SpoonJuly]

they cant refuse to enter or their kids starve to death because there is no other store because walmart drove them out.

Name me one town that only has a Walmart and no other place to shop within 10 miles.
If you cannot do that than all your complaining is of no value.

 

[calibob]

Your post never anger me. We agree on many things.
We were raised in very different worlds it seems.
I was taught to depend on God and your own sweat to provide for yourself, your family, and to help those in need. It was not the government's responsibility nor anyone else's. Anyone who did not do so was not a man or a Christian.
I was also taught that we all have a part in what happens in this world, both good and bad, and must accept full responsibility for our part.
What angers me is when people refuse to see and accept their part and want to always blame others and big companies for all the worlds problems.
Jaybird refuses to see that Walmart would never have become the world's largest retailer if not for the consumer making that a fact. No consumer, no Walmart.

I made the point that if people did not shop at walmart when they had their grand opening they would close and his answer was " they had no choice".
Yes they do have a choice. They were shopping at other retailers before Walmart moved in and had that grand opening but choose to take their business to Walmart. So that community of consumers must accept some of the responsibility for the failure of the other retailers in their city and the success of Walmart.
He is one of those who always wants to blame others and refuses to see his part in the problem.

I am not a fan of Trump. Did not vote for him on Clinton. Did not see either as being worthy of my vote.
I am not a fan of Walmart. If they depended on my shopping they would have gone out of business long ago.
But most folks love shopping at Walmart, buying their cheap products, because that gives them more money to buy their toys and things they do not really need.

I agree that the end is near and people need to be more concerned with their fellowship with God than being obsessed with how evil and wicked Walmart and all those rich folks are.

Ok but Social security is not welfare. I was taught it is our retirement and disability insurance. Thats why it comes out of every pay check. FICA stands Federal Insurance Contributions Act or what we call Social Security. And that it is not a tax it's a federal old age and disability insurance policy more reliable than banks.

 

[calibob]

Your post never anger me. We agree on many things.
We were raised in very different worlds it seems.
FICA was established in 1935 because banks could not be trusted and they proved it again in 2008. They never should have been let off the hook and our great grand children will be paying for it if the USA lasts that long.

 

[calibob]

Your post never anger me. We agree on many things.
We were raised in very different worlds it seems.
I was taught to depend on God and your own sweat to provide for yourself, your family, and to help those in need. It was not the government's responsibility nor anyone else's. Anyone who did not do so was not a man or a Christian.

My father was a Man but not a Christian. Sweat equity? 37 years in a fish cannery shoveling dead fish, loading box cars and trucks by hand with 50-!00 lb. bags of fish meal sugar and rice plus 55 gallon barrels of fish oil in/on to box cars and trucks. Then he changed departments and converted fish oil into usable products like fertilizers, vitamins and additives for animal feed and some foods as well as shampoos.

It was mainly done with steam powered equipment till the late 70's.He work with his brother also. My other Uncles unloaded banana boats in the same harbor and also loaded American made products going overseas onto ships. They also loaded and unloaded box cars too. Mom cleaned and canned fish till I was adopted in 1957. Hard work & sweat? YES!

 

[calibob]

When my parents both became unable to take care of themselves and Dad had terminal lung cancer. Mom had a breakdown. Dad wanted to stay and die at home we applied for home hospice and I quit my job to take care of them. No other siblings existed. Dad passed away in 96 and 6 weeks later so did Mom. We didn't know she had terminal cancer of the bowels. Meanwhile Bill Clinton closed the Marine Corps Auto Shop where I had taken a leave of absence from when he downsized the military.... Oh well, life goes on. I went to Las Vegas.

 

[UnderGrace]

math and science have been around from the times of plato and euclid.
math, science, growth and innovation are great, what exactly were there role when carnegie steel hired private mercenaries to gun down workers who were on strike? or working for the company store? im not getting what one has to do with the other. its like saying people were payed very low wages but more men back then wore overalls.

government subs - go to google and enter "government subsidies corporations" and pick an article. most of what i say here is going off memory, one thing i remember from several years back is welfare for rich is much more than what it is for the poor.

The first part is not related
Second part I already have and no evidence Walmart is subsidized by the government in the real sense of what a government subsidy is

 

[calibob]

Why is there federal withholding tax? Because most people aren't responsible enough to pay taxes when they are due so rather than letting the nation go broke while filling the prisons with people that can't pay their taxes the government takes it's cut first. And if or when we over pay we get it back without interest but if we are short and need time to pay they do charge intrest. I've known many people that look foreword to the new year because of tax refunds. Most people I've known did.