Galatian Conundrums

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Jan 12, 2019
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Acts 15, council in Jerusalem -- 48 AD

Acts 18, Apollo meets Aquilla & Priscilla -- 53 AD

Acts 19, Paul preaching the gospel of the kingdom -- 55 AD
Anyway are you also saying it requires obedience to the law before acts 15 but that requirement was dropped after?

IF that is the case either way you also agree with the 2 gospel.
 
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this website looks terrible. i notice quickly many things so wrong i learn how to read these between lines

they say questioning cultural norms thats no no. means they could be pro-sodomy or against order in churches that st.paul said. they say we try to get rid of us vs them and work with other faiths that mean they disobey against st.paul be ye separate and dont work with unbelievers when it comes to spiritual things. im not talking about working secular job but spiritual job

they say they embrace other faiths that tells these men are already deceived for the future one world religion by antichrist. sad to see.

i am still writing this and i did research in their tags on the website and see what i just said earlier they could be pro-sodomy. its confirmed on their website, i knew it as soon as i opened website and read that and i looked at that guy with the ear ring i knew from that second yes this is a sodomychurch and they are pure social justice warrior liberal apostate mode. trying to destroy all real churches.

i hope that everyone learns to read between lines when people say things like questioning cultural norms it always means sodomy in today's world, when people say loving others and talk about it much it always means accepting sins instead of actually loving people, these liberal churches change love to mean tolerance for everything.
Many Churches preach almost exclusively from the 4 gospels so if you examine them, they also share this red letter thinking
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Many Churches preach almost exclusively from the 4 gospels so if you examine them, they also share this red letter thinking
yes liberal churches love sermon on mount. it makes for church the world can walk over. and it has
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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57 AD -- same year Romans is written, while Paul is in Corinth during the Spring.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
(Romans 1:16)
  • the gospel ((singular))
  • first to the Jew, then to the Gentile
  • salvation to everyone who believes
Romans is written to Jews and Gentiles alike.

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
(Romans 6:14)
  • the gospel of the kingdom
My kingdom is not of this world.
(John 18:36)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Anyway are you also saying it requires obedience to the law before acts 15 but that requirement was dropped after?

IF that is the case either way you also agree with the 2 gospel.
Jesus said to her,
I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live,
and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
(John 11:25-26)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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Anyway are you also saying it requires obedience to the law before acts 15 but that requirement was dropped after?

IF that is the case either way you also agree with the 2 gospel.

When he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?
Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”
Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money; take that and give it to them for Me and you.
(Matthew 17:25-27)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Jesus said to her,
I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live, and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
(John 11:25-26)
I see. So you are saying that, even before Acts 15, during the time when Jesus was preaching in Jerusalem, the Gospel of the Kingdom never required one to obey the Law of Moses. Only belief in Jesus is sufficient to be saved.

If that is the case, there was no need to start from Acts 15. You could have begun in Matthew 1.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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If that is the case, there was no need to start from Acts 15. You could have begun in Matthew 1.
there would have been no need if you were not in error about John the baptist. he's featured in Acts 18-19, and you feature him in Acts 15, tho he isn't there.
 
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there would have been no need if you were not in error about John the baptist. he's featured in Acts 18-19, and you feature him in Acts 15, tho he isn't there.
To you, I am always in error. Then again, whoever disagrees with us is always in error. :)

I am just keen to understand why you think the way you do. Thanks for clarifying.
 
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Do you know what the term "gospel" means?

Yes, many can't help but to read the secrets of Paul's gospel (Romans 2:16) into all the gospels preached in the Bible, both OT and NT, especially that famous John 3:16.

I understand where they are coming from.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Do you know what the term "gospel" means?

Yes, many can't help but to read the secrets of Paul's gospel (Romans 2:16) into all the gospels preached in the Bible, both OT and NT, especially that famous John 3:16.

I understand where they are coming from.
The Good News of the gospel is that Jesus Saves.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The Good News of the gospel is that Jesus Saves.
No need to follow the law at all? Then why did Jesus stated in Matthew 5:19? Was he joking?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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No need to follow the law at all? Then why did Jesus stated in Matthew 5:19? Was he joking?
The law is that system of legislation given by God through Moses to the nation of Israel. The entire body of the law is found in Exodus 20-31, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, though its essence is embodied in the Ten Commandments.

The law was not given as a means of salvation (Act_13:39; Rom_3:20 a; Gal_2:16, Gal_2:21; Gal_3:11; it was designed to show people their sinfulness (Rom_3:20 b; Rom_5:20; Rom_7:7; 1Co_15:56; Gal_3:19) and then drive them to God for His gracious salvation. It was given to the nation of Israel, even though it contains moral principles which are valid for people in every age (Rom_2:14-15). God tested Israel under the law as a sample of the human race, and Israel's guilt proved the world's guilt (Rom_3:19).

The law had attached to it the penalty of death (Gal_3:10); and to break one command was to be guilty of all (Jas_2:10). Since people had broken the law, they were under the curse of death. God's righteousness and holiness demanded that the penalty be paid. It was for this reason that Jesus came into the world: to pay the penalty by His death. He died as a Substitute for guilty lawbreakers, even though He Himself was sinless. He did not wave the law aside; rather He met the full demands of the law by fulfilling its strict requirements in His life and in His death. Thus, the gospel does not overthrow the law; it upholds the law and shows how the law's demands have been fully satisfied by Christ's redemptive work.

Therefore, the person who trusts in Jesus is no longer under the law; he is under grace (Rom_6:14). He is dead to the law through the work of Christ. The penalty of the law must be paid only once; since Christ paid the penalty, the believer does not have to. It is in this sense that the law has faded away for the Christian (2Co_3:7-11). The law was a tutor until Christ came, but after salvation, this tutor is no longer needed (Gal_3:24-25).

Yet, while the Christian is not under the law, that doesn't mean he is lawless. He is bound by a stronger chain than law because he is under the law of Christ (1Co_9:21). His behavior is molded, not by fear of punishment, but by a loving desire to please his Savior. Christ has become his rule of life (Joh_13:15; Joh_15:12; Eph_5:1-2; 1Jn_2:6; 1Jn_3:16).

A common question in a discussion of the believer's relation to the law is, “Should I obey the Ten Commandments?” The answer is that certain principles contained in the law are of lasting relevance. It is always wrong to steal, to covet, or to murder. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT, with an important distinction—they are =not given as law (with penalty attached), but as training in righteousness for the people of God (2Ti_3:16 b). The one commandment not repeated is the Sabbath law: Christians are never taught to keep the Sabbath (i.e., the seventh day of the week, Saturday).
The ministry of the law to unsaved people has not ended: “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully” (1Ti_1:8). Its lawful use is to produce the knowledge of sin and thus lead to repentance. But the law is not for those who are already saved: “The law is not made for a righteous person” (1Ti_1:9).

The righteousness demanded by the law is fulfilled in those “who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit” (Rom_8:4). In fact, the teachings of our Lord in the Sermon on the Mount set a higher standard than that set by the law. For instance, the law said, “Do not murder”; Jesus said, “Do not even hate.” So the Sermon on the Mount not only upholds the Law and the Prophets but it amplifies them and develops their deeper implications.
5:19 In returning to the Sermon, we notice that Jesus anticipated a natural tendency to relax God's commandments. Because they are of such a supernatural nature, people tend to explain them away, to rationalize their meaning. But whoever breaks one part of the law, and teaches other people to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. The wonder is that such people are permitted in the kingdom at all—but then, entrance into the kingdom is by faith in Christ. A person's position in the kingdom is determined by his obedience and faithfulness while on earth. The person who obeys the law of the kingdom—that person shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:20 To gain entrance into the kingdom, our righteousness must surpass the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (who were content with religious ceremonies which gave them an outward, ritual cleansing, but which never changed their hearts). Jesus uses hyperbole (exaggeration) to drive home the truth that external righteousness without internal reality will not gain entrance into the kingdom. The only righteousness that God will accept is the perfection that He imputes to those who accept His Son as Savior (2Co_5:21). Of course, where there is true faith in Christ, there will also be the practical righteousness that Jesus describes in the remainder of the Sermon. (Believers Bible)
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
The law is that system of legislation given by God through Moses to the nation of Israel. The entire body of the law is found in Exodus 20-31, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, though its essence is embodied in the Ten Commandments.

The law was not given as a means of salvation (Act_13:39; Rom_3:20 a; Gal_2:16, Gal_2:21; Gal_3:11; it was designed to show people their sinfulness (Rom_3:20 b; Rom_5:20; Rom_7:7; 1Co_15:56; Gal_3:19) and then drive them to God for His gracious salvation. It was given to the nation of Israel, even though it contains moral principles which are valid for people in every age (Rom_2:14-15). God tested Israel under the law as a sample of the human race, and Israel's guilt proved the world's guilt (Rom_3:19).

The law had attached to it the penalty of death (Gal_3:10); and to break one command was to be guilty of all (Jas_2:10). Since people had broken the law, they were under the curse of death. God's righteousness and holiness demanded that the penalty be paid. It was for this reason that Jesus came into the world: to pay the penalty by His death. He died as a Substitute for guilty lawbreakers, even though He Himself was sinless. He did not wave the law aside; rather He met the full demands of the law by fulfilling its strict requirements in His life and in His death. Thus, the gospel does not overthrow the law; it upholds the law and shows how the law's demands have been fully satisfied by Christ's redemptive work.

Therefore, the person who trusts in Jesus is no longer under the law; he is under grace (Rom_6:14). He is dead to the law through the work of Christ. The penalty of the law must be paid only once; since Christ paid the penalty, the believer does not have to. It is in this sense that the law has faded away for the Christian (2Co_3:7-11). The law was a tutor until Christ came, but after salvation, this tutor is no longer needed (Gal_3:24-25).

Yet, while the Christian is not under the law, that doesn't mean he is lawless. He is bound by a stronger chain than law because he is under the law of Christ (1Co_9:21). His behavior is molded, not by fear of punishment, but by a loving desire to please his Savior. Christ has become his rule of life (Joh_13:15; Joh_15:12; Eph_5:1-2; 1Jn_2:6; 1Jn_3:16).

A common question in a discussion of the believer's relation to the law is, “Should I obey the Ten Commandments?” The answer is that certain principles contained in the law are of lasting relevance. It is always wrong to steal, to covet, or to murder. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT, with an important distinction—they are =not given as law (with penalty attached), but as training in righteousness for the people of God (2Ti_3:16 b). The one commandment not repeated is the Sabbath law: Christians are never taught to keep the Sabbath (i.e., the seventh day of the week, Saturday).
The ministry of the law to unsaved people has not ended: “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully” (1Ti_1:8). Its lawful use is to produce the knowledge of sin and thus lead to repentance. But the law is not for those who are already saved: “The law is not made for a righteous person” (1Ti_1:9).

The righteousness demanded by the law is fulfilled in those “who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit” (Rom_8:4). In fact, the teachings of our Lord in the Sermon on the Mount set a higher standard than that set by the law. For instance, the law said, “Do not murder”; Jesus said, “Do not even hate.” So the Sermon on the Mount not only upholds the Law and the Prophets but it amplifies them and develops their deeper implications.
5:19 In returning to the Sermon, we notice that Jesus anticipated a natural tendency to relax God's commandments. Because they are of such a supernatural nature, people tend to explain them away, to rationalize their meaning. But whoever breaks one part of the law, and teaches other people to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. The wonder is that such people are permitted in the kingdom at all—but then, entrance into the kingdom is by faith in Christ. A person's position in the kingdom is determined by his obedience and faithfulness while on earth. The person who obeys the law of the kingdom—that person shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:20 To gain entrance into the kingdom, our righteousness must surpass the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (who were content with religious ceremonies which gave them an outward, ritual cleansing, but which never changed their hearts). Jesus uses hyperbole (exaggeration) to drive home the truth that external righteousness without internal reality will not gain entrance into the kingdom. The only righteousness that God will accept is the perfection that He imputes to those who accept His Son as Savior (2Co_5:21). Of course, where there is true faith in Christ, there will also be the practical righteousness that Jesus describes in the remainder of the Sermon. (Believers Bible)
Yes I agree with you in all that you have stated, but you are not addressing my question.

Before all these secrets that were revealed to Paul, how is a Jew suppose to behave in the 4 gospels?

If he does not want to circumcise his son and quote all that you used, what will happen to him?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Yes I agree with you in all that you have stated, but you are not addressing my question.

Before all these secrets that were revealed to Paul, how is a Jew suppose to behave in the 4 gospels?

If he does not want to circumcise his son and quote all that you used, what will happen to him?
In the Old Testament people were saved because they believed in God, the I AM. That is still true today for those who in their heart and mind believe in the I AM. I hope you understand what I am saying. All else, like circumcision is of no effect. It is the old sinful heart that needs to be circumcised.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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In the Old Testament people were saved because they believed in God, the I AM. That is still true today for those who in their heart and mind believe in the I AM. I hope you understand what I am saying. All else, like circumcision is of no effect. It is the old sinful heart that needs to be circumcised.
So your point is that following the law of Moses was not even required in the OT? Just believe in God is sufficient?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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So your point is that following the law of Moses was not even required in the OT? Just believe in God is sufficient?
The law of Moses was needed for every day life, but it never saved the soul. Just a simple faith was sufficient.

(Lights out)