Galatian Conundrums
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Weel says the book is for His servants:
Revelation 1:1-2, " 1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
and I assune you think there is 2 different paths, one for Jew and Gentiile. and/or that there is some secret raoture. Both are incorrect according to the word.
If one studies aRevelation the order of events is clear.
He returns on the 7th trumpet:
Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Thats when His people are gathered:
Matthew 24:29-31, " 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Also when this happenes is irrelevant to my main point:
Revelation 22:1-21, " 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
Revelation 1:1-2, " 1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
and I assune you think there is 2 different paths, one for Jew and Gentiile. and/or that there is some secret raoture. Both are incorrect according to the word.
If one studies aRevelation the order of events is clear.
He returns on the 7th trumpet:
Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Thats when His people are gathered:
Matthew 24:29-31, " 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Also when this happenes is irrelevant to my main point:
Revelation 22:1-21, " 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
If your name is found in the lamb's book of life when compared to the other book. . . reserved for blotting out. . yes.
What is it we do have that we have not freely received.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Exactly, how he described it is beyond my understanding. Possibly through the parable using Issac.
But all of the Old testament born again persons did have a living hope working in them, to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness. .By that manner of spirit in them it looked ahead by faith to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow. . The time of reformation came . The veil was rent . . opening the way , the graves were open to the way of ressurection or rapture
They like us who looks back to the demonstration were receiving the end of their new faith as a living abiding hope working in them from the moment they first heard and believed God not seen.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Peter 1:9-11
But all of the Old testament born again persons did have a living hope working in them, to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness. .By that manner of spirit in them it looked ahead by faith to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow. . The time of reformation came . The veil was rent . . opening the way , the graves were open to the way of ressurection or rapture
They like us who looks back to the demonstration were receiving the end of their new faith as a living abiding hope working in them from the moment they first heard and believed God not seen.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Peter 1:9-11
Some versions say this:
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/22-14.htm - Rev22:14 - "Blessed are those washing their robes, that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates."
[and I agree with the poster saying that this ^ is referring to something long after "our Rapture/Departure"
(note also: it says, "by the gates.")]
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/22-14.htm - Rev22:14 - "Blessed are those washing their robes, that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates."
[and I agree with the poster saying that this ^ is referring to something long after "our Rapture/Departure"
(note also: it says, "by the gates.")]
Some versions say this:
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/22-14.htm - Rev22:14 - "Blessed are those washing their robes, that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates."
[and I agree with the poster saying that this ^ is referring to something long after "our Rapture/Departure" (note also: it says, "by the gates.")]
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/22-14.htm - Rev22:14 - "Blessed are those washing their robes, that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates."
[and I agree with the poster saying that this ^ is referring to something long after "our Rapture/Departure"
(note also: it says, "by the gates.")]
I think prayer and seek which one is correct is in order, as they can not both be "originally" what was written.
Here is a piece of evidence I have found becuase I noticed this same thing some years ago; before the books were selected to form The New Testament, Rev 22:14 was quoted, as "keep commands", by Tertullian (ad 208), and by Cyprian (ad 251) – from the Antenicene Fathers. When no quotes of "wash robes" was found at this time or before, it was not found until some years later.
It is not beyond your understanding if you simply ask this question “what does scripture says?”
Hint genesis 12, 15 and 17 record what is written, that tell us what God spoke to Abraham
It is only complex when you try to add church doctrine into it. This “ot saints were looking forward to the cross” is not scriptural.
Hint genesis 12, 15 and 17 record what is written, that tell us what God spoke to Abraham
It is only complex when you try to add church doctrine into it. This “ot saints were looking forward to the cross” is not scriptural.
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*ahem*
they spoke by the Spirit of Christ Himself.
they searched intently for when it would appear.
they predicted the suffering and glory of the Messiah.
the very same things being preached by the apostles ((e.g. the gospel))
the very same things the Holy Spirit says now.
"according to the scriptures" He was buried and raised the 3rd day.
as written in the scriptures. as testified of in the scriptures. as predicted by the scriptures. as witnessed to in the scriptures.
the death burial and resurrection of Christ is of first importance, and it was foretold by the prophets and written all over the OT.
the prophets were literally looking forward to it.
angels were looking forward to it.
it is literally presaged in every single book of the OT, practically on every page!
the entire OT is a testimony of Him and He commands you to search it looking for the testimony of Him.
because of this ignorance Jesus tells them they are such idiots! and so slow to believe!
@Guojing do you believe Jesus here, also?
is a man who does not see that the OT testifies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, His person and redemptive work of salvation, an unbelieving fool? from Moses to the prophets. all the scriptures!
do you believe Him here? is He talking to you?
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
(1 Peter 1:10-12)
the prophets ((OT saints)) spoke of the grace to come. they spoke by the Spirit of Christ Himself.
they searched intently for when it would appear.
they predicted the suffering and glory of the Messiah.
the very same things being preached by the apostles ((e.g. the gospel))
the very same things the Holy Spirit says now.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
"according to the scriptures" He died for our sins. "according to the scriptures" He was buried and raised the 3rd day.
as written in the scriptures. as testified of in the scriptures. as predicted by the scriptures. as witnessed to in the scriptures.
the death burial and resurrection of Christ is of first importance, and it was foretold by the prophets and written all over the OT.
the prophets were literally looking forward to it.
angels were looking forward to it.
it is literally presaged in every single book of the OT, practically on every page!
Search the scriptures!
for in them ye think ye have eternal life,
and they are they which testify of Me!
(John 5:39)
"search" is imperative in Greek here. the entire OT is a testimony of Him and He commands you to search it looking for the testimony of Him.
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter His glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was said in all the scriptures concerning Himself.
(Luke 24:25-27)
Jesus meets two disciples who did not know that the OT saints prophesied and testified about the suffering and glory of the Messiah. suffering and glory? to wit: the death burial and resurrection of Christ, see 1 Cor. 15 above. because of this ignorance Jesus tells them they are such idiots! and so slow to believe!
@Guojing do you believe Jesus here, also?
is a man who does not see that the OT testifies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, His person and redemptive work of salvation, an unbelieving fool? from Moses to the prophets. all the scriptures!
do you believe Him here? is He talking to you?
After the cross happen and after Paul was told all these mysteries by the ascended Christ, yes one can look back and see the grand plan of God.
No one is denying that.
But that is not the same as “people were looking forward to the cross in the ot”. Many of them were instead looking forward to the promised kingdom and king
No one is denying that.
But that is not the same as “people were looking forward to the cross in the ot”. Many of them were instead looking forward to the promised kingdom and king
what does scripture say?
Peter literally says they did.
what does scripture say?
Paul literally says all the things Jesus did were written in scripture beforehand.
what does scripture say?
Jesus literally says all of the scripture testifies of Him.
He literally commands it to be searched for these things.
what does scripture say?
Jesus literally calls disciples who did not realize this unbelieving fools.
you said earlier you 'believe Jesus there..' -- do you believe Him also here?
do you only believe some of what He says? do you see Him when you read the OT? everywhere?
Peter literally says they did.
what does scripture say?
Paul literally says all the things Jesus did were written in scripture beforehand.
what does scripture say?
Jesus literally says all of the scripture testifies of Him.
He literally commands it to be searched for these things.
what does scripture say?
Jesus literally calls disciples who did not realize this unbelieving fools.
you said earlier you 'believe Jesus there..' -- do you believe Him also here?
do you only believe some of what He says? do you see Him when you read the OT? everywhere?
And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:
"Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
For my eyes have seen Your salvation
Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel!"
According to Your word;
For my eyes have seen Your salvation
Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel!"
And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him. Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother,
“Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against - yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed!”
“Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against - yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed!”
(Luke 2:25-32)
how does Simeon know these things, @Guojing ?
I already stated they were looking forward to God sending a king to rule over them.
Some may link the promised king to be the Son of God himself, as prophesied by Micah and Zechariah among others.
No one was looking forward to the cross. You are reading into the scripture here.
If you don’t want to be silent when the scripture is silent that is your choice to make
Look we both know you are not gonna change your mind about this no matter what I say so we will just agree to disagree here.
Some may link the promised king to be the Son of God himself, as prophesied by Micah and Zechariah among others.
No one was looking forward to the cross. You are reading into the scripture here.
If you don’t want to be silent when the scripture is silent that is your choice to make
Look we both know you are not gonna change your mind about this no matter what I say so we will just agree to disagree here.
