Why didn't the apostles follow Jesus instruction when baptizing?

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RevelationMan

RevelationMan

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#1
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Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus. It appears that the difference is if they received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but if they had not received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why don't we baptize like they did? Is it only because of what Jesus said or is it because it is too difficult to determine whether someone has received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:16-17 - because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 - Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#2
Jun 30, 2015
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#2
RevelationMan said:
Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus. It appears that the difference is if they received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but if they had not received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why don't we baptize like they did? Is it only because of what Jesus said or is it because it is too difficult to determine whether someone has received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:16-17 - because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 - Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
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You start by claiming that the disciples didn't baptize "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" but then argue that they used two different formulae depending on the status of the individual (which I think is silly semantics).

What, exactly, is your concern?
 
RevelationMan

RevelationMan

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Dino246 said:
You start by claiming that the disciples didn't baptize "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" but then argue that they used two different formulae depending on the status of the individual (which I think is silly semantics).

What, exactly, is your concern?
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It's not silly semantics there is clearly a distinction about how the apostles baptized some in the name of the Lord Jesus and others in the name of Jesus Christ and none in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...the question is why which is our job to figure out. It appears that the only reason for baptizing them in the different names is whether they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
 
RevelationMan

RevelationMan

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#4
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Here's why I believe there is an important difference between how the name of Jesus are displayed. There were two on earth and two that died and two that were resurrected and both inhabited the body of Jesus while on earth.
 

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Melach

Melach

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#5
Mar 28, 2019
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baptized in the name of Lord Jesus or Jesus Christ is the baptism done in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

what Jesus says in great commission is the actual formula straight from Jesus mouth. but in st. luke records it in acts as baptized in the name of Jesus or Lord Jesus or Jesus Christ because it just means "in the authority" "by the authority". like we say stop in the name of love, in the name of all that is holy, in the name of the law.

how i see it is that. one of the most ancient documents didache says Father Son and Holy Spirit as well. its good. all members of trinity are participating in salvation after all
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#6
Jun 30, 2015
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RevelationMan said:
Here's why I believe there is an important difference between how the name of Jesus are displayed. There were two on earth and two that died and two that were resurrected and both inhabited the body of Jesus while on earth.
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That's heresy.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#8
Jun 30, 2015
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RevelationMan said:
it explains a lot of the challenges in biblical exposition and why there were differences in the words used and eye witness accounts.
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Heresy is never a good explanation for scriptural truth. The differences in wording are better explained by differences in intent, audience, vocabulary, and personality of the writers. I can guarantee that two people witnessing the same event will not use exactly the same words to describe it.

Fundamentally, there is no difference between "Jesus Christ" and "the Lord Jesus". That's where your argument is semantic.
 
tourist

tourist

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#9
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#9
RevelationMan said:
Here's why I believe there is an important difference between how the name of Jesus are displayed. There were two on earth and two that died and two that were resurrected and both inhabited the body of Jesus while on earth.
Click to expand...
Huh?
 
RevelationMan

RevelationMan

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#10
Sep 14, 2019
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#10
Dino246 said:
Fundamentally, there is no difference between "Jesus Christ" and "the Lord Jesus". That's where your argument is semantic.
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I don't think we can pass it off as semantics because in 2 Thess. 1:7-10. Paul tells us that the Lord Jesus is responsible for judgement and sentences everyone who does not obey his gospel everlasting punishment. It would have not been correct if Paul would have used the name of Jesus Christ instead of the Lord Jesus here because Jesus Christ is not the one responsible for judgement. If you study the differences in the names of Jesus used throughout the new testament there is a clear distinction. But it is the apostles who all agreed on using the different names.
 
Melach

Melach

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#11
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RevelationMan said:
I don't think we can pass it off as semantics because in 2 Thess. 1:7-10. Paul tells us that the Lord Jesus is responsible for judgement and sentences everyone who does not obey his gospel everlasting punishment. It would have not been correct if Paul would have used the name of Jesus Christ instead of the Lord Jesus here because Jesus Christ is not the one responsible for judgement. If you study the differences in the names of Jesus used throughout the new testament there is a clear distinction. But it is the apostles who all agreed on using the different names.
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you are only person to ever talk about this im sure. who could even notice this while running from persecution in the early church? jews and romans persecuting yet they are thinking Lord Jesus and Jesus Christ two totally different people? come on

even in this world, i am father because i have a son, but im also son because i have a father. some people call trump President Trump and his friends call him Donald probably. is president trump and donald two different persons?
 
Deade

Deade

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#12
Melach said:
baptized in the name of Lord Jesus or Jesus Christ is the baptism done in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

what Jesus says in great commission is the actual formula straight from Jesus mouth. but in st. luke records it in acts as baptized in the name of Jesus or Lord Jesus or Jesus Christ because it just means "in the authority" "by the authority". like we say stop in the name of love, in the name of all that is holy, in the name of the law.

how i see it is that. one of the most ancient documents didache says Father Son and Holy Spirit as well. its good. all members of trinity are participating in salvation after all
Click to expand...
I see two things wrong with quoting Matt. 28:19. 1.) It does not specifically name the son. 2.) It is in only one gospel, it lacks the second witness for establishing the word (2 Cor. 13:1-John 8:17).

My complaint is that many baptisms, mine included, they failed to "take authority" in Jesus' name. That is why the Lord had me to redo my baptism.
 
Melach

Melach

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#13
Mar 28, 2019
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Deade said:
I see two things wrong with quoting Matt. 28:19. 1.) It does not specifically name the son. 2.) It is in only one gospel, it lacks the second witness for establishing the word (2 Cor. 13:1-John 8:17).

My complaint is that many baptisms, mine included, they failed to "take authority" in Jesus' name. That is why the Lord had me to redo my baptism.
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as said in the name of simply means by the authority of, in the name of law in the name of love in the name of all that is holy.

because trinity is involved in saving people its good to do it as Jesus said. this is the only guide we see in bible how to baptize from the mouth of Jesus.
 
Deade

Deade

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#14
Melach said:
as said in the name of simply means by the authority of, in the name of law in the name of love in the name of all that is holy.

because trinity is involved in saving people its good to do it as Jesus said. this is the only guide we see in bible how to baptize from the mouth of Jesus.
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Yeah, but when the Lord had me carry a message to my, then, pastor and his head deacon, they didn't understand the "taking authority" part. I then reasoned with them in scripture. They finally saw it and agreed to re-baptize me and my wife.

It is a long story told in my "Coming to Jesus" blog. But once other Baptists "higher ups" caught wind of it, they put a quick stop to it. We had to leave that church.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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#15
#15
RevelationMan said:
Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus. It appears that the difference is if they received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but if they had not received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why don't we baptize like they did? Is it only because of what Jesus said or is it because it is too difficult to determine whether someone has received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:16-17 - because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 - Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
No point in parting your hair when your bald.
 
Melach

Melach

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#16
Mar 28, 2019
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#16
Deade said:
But once other Baptists "higher ups" caught wind of it, they put a quick stop to it. We had to leave that church.
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God bless those baptists they did right. glad you guys didnt stay and confuse and cause disruption in the church with rebaptizing already baptized members and sowing doubt about validity of their baptism. good that leadership.
 
T

TheLearner

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#17
Jan 14, 2019
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#17
RevelationMan said:
Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus. It appears that the difference is if they received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but if they had not received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why don't we baptize like they did? Is it only because of what Jesus said or is it because it is too difficult to determine whether someone has received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:16-17 - because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 - Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
The quotes from Acts is shorthand for by whose authority of what teacher. Nothing more. All Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles themselves or taught by those who were were taught writes the correct saying is what Jesus said.
 
T

TheLearner

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#18
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#18
RevelationMan said:
It's not silly semantics there is clearly a distinction about how the apostles baptized some in the name of the Lord Jesus and others in the name of Jesus Christ and none in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...the question is why which is our job to figure out. It appears that the only reason for baptizing them in the different names is whether they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
If there is a distinction, it would be learned by simply talking with them. Jewish people who were not educated about the Trinity would likely be baptised in Jesus name.
 
T

TheLearner

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#19
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#19
RevelationMan said:
Here's why I believe there is an important difference between how the name of Jesus are displayed. There were two on earth and two that died and two that were resurrected and both inhabited the body of Jesus while on earth.
Click to expand...
clarify please, do you believe Jesus is God in his own right or that he only contained god in him?
 
T

TheLearner

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#20
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#20
I do not understand the distinctions trying to be made. Who is baptized how?
 
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