Yes I agree with you on the "which is worse effects" Crack or one cigarette, or course I know the effects of that and it probably one of the worse substance mind altering drugs on earth to hell. Nowhere near as bad as having one cigarette. But that's not my point. If you break the smallest law, you break them all right? Its not about the behaviour produced I was referring to but what is idolatry. In measures?
Is Addiction the Sin of Idolatry, or is it a disease?
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My issue with non-Christian counselors is that a lot of counseling has to do with spiritual problems.
And, if they are spiritually dead (unbelievers) they can't advise me.
In fact, I don't accept the counsel of Christians if they aren't on the same wavelength as me.
I am not claiming that a Christian needs to provide all your healthcare...only for spiritual needs. And, I believe addiction is a spiritual issue.
And, if they are spiritually dead (unbelievers) they can't advise me.
In fact, I don't accept the counsel of Christians if they aren't on the same wavelength as me.
I am not claiming that a Christian needs to provide all your healthcare...only for spiritual needs. And, I believe addiction is a spiritual issue.
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Sorry I changed my mind about writing the top part of that message, not sure how it Got there. An idol is something that is worshipped. A drug is something that is worshipped. In the end it's the most important part of a persons life, like their God. A person will lose their children for this drug, they will steal for this drug, they will sell their body for this drug, they will kill for this drug. So this drug is a God- an idol that comes first before everything.
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By the way, I am totally sympathetic towards anyone who struggles with sin, because I still struggle with sin.
I think that it helps to view addiction as the sin of idolatry, though, because that points the person back to God, not towards self-help gimmicks and worldly counselors.
I believe the fundamental issue is to fill one's life with passion for a relationship with God, and that will supplant the desire for substances or people to fill the void.
We were created for our lives to revolve around God, and it is important to realize that this was our intended purpose. We will never be fulfilled in the ultimate sense until our lives are revolving around God, and we are finding our pleasure in Him.
I think that it helps to view addiction as the sin of idolatry, though, because that points the person back to God, not towards self-help gimmicks and worldly counselors.
I believe the fundamental issue is to fill one's life with passion for a relationship with God, and that will supplant the desire for substances or people to fill the void.
We were created for our lives to revolve around God, and it is important to realize that this was our intended purpose. We will never be fulfilled in the ultimate sense until our lives are revolving around God, and we are finding our pleasure in Him.
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Idol factories! That's a good one and sounds about right. Isn't an idol something you worship though? Like people idolise their kids sometimes? Or Elvis (or even Elvis guitar?) I am not sure if addiction fits into idols. Not sure. I don't think addicts worship what they take they just cant stop when they start and many pray all day every day to get help to stop. I think also, some recovered addicts may have been put in that position to help others after they are no longer addicts as they would have way more understanding and empathy. A good example is a good example after all. Having said that, I know lot of people who worship their cars like idols.
I think restlessness is a part of our fallen condition. I believe we will naturally try and seek something to ease that condition, to cope... for example drugs, alcohol, comfort food, sex, work, exercise, material things, beauty, video games and so on... the key to finding the stillness and peace within is found only in Him.
He sets us free from our weakened estate and gives us Himself. Ours is to grab a hold of Him instead of whatever else.
I think, ultimately, when He is the true Shepherd of our lives, we will not want for things to ease the restless conditions of our flesh, at least not as much and hopefully less and less. It is a lifelong process, for me anyway.
Yes, I think whatever we yearn for more than Him is a form of idolatry, but I think it, substance abuse, is an intricately challenging delima that destroys so many lives.
Lord, may you always be the desire of our hearts...♡♡♡
He sets us free from our weakened estate and gives us Himself. Ours is to grab a hold of Him instead of whatever else.
I think, ultimately, when He is the true Shepherd of our lives, we will not want for things to ease the restless conditions of our flesh, at least not as much and hopefully less and less. It is a lifelong process, for me anyway.
Yes, I think whatever we yearn for more than Him is a form of idolatry, but I think it, substance abuse, is an intricately challenging delima that destroys so many lives.
Lord, may you always be the desire of our hearts...♡♡♡
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John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you..."
Acts 5:31-32, " 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Psalms 51:10-12, " 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
1 Peter 1:13-21, " 13 Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one's deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, 18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
John 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you..."
Acts 5:31-32, " 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Psalms 51:10-12, " 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
1 Peter 1:13-21, " 13 Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one's deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, 18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
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Correct. Which means that the new creature in Christ (who has God within) also has the power within to be set free from any and all addictions.
Christians should teach new Christians that it is God who sets them free. But they must also die to self and be alive to God. This is why the Bible speaks about mortifying or crucifying the flesh -- putting the lusts and addictions to death.
EPHESIANS 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Christians should teach new Christians that it is God who sets them free. But they must also die to self and be alive to God. This is why the Bible speaks about mortifying or crucifying the flesh -- putting the lusts and addictions to death.
EPHESIANS 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Neheniah6 have you seen a sort of doctrine, I disagree with, but where people are "free from sin" but their flesh still sins but for a number of resons it is somehow not "sin for them" like the spirit is free of sin or some nonsense? I have heard "im not under the law so its not a sin for me", "the law is done away for this in christ (therefore nothing they do can be sin)" etc.
I want to re-state I disagree with this but was wondering you thoughts on this type of doctrine
I want to re-state I disagree with this but was wondering you thoughts on this type of doctrine
Thank you, HeyJude 
I would have liked to have done a little more work on it but no longer have the layered file that was the working copy. Now that may all be Greek to you... oh! I just found it with a different name in the same file folder I made a few small changes that hopefully improved it
I would have liked to have done a little more work on it but no longer have the layered file that was the working copy. Now that may all be Greek to you... oh! I just found it with a different name in the same file folder I made a few small changes that hopefully improved it
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Always great when a person that has never struggled with something believes they understand it so much better than those that have.
Also the notion that believers should magically not struggle with addiction suggests a perfectionist belief. Which is not biblical.
Some long winded blow hard that has never experienced addiction is not going to be my source for knowledge or insight on the matter.
Go tell a heroin addict going through withdrawls in a hospital they aren't really addicted, it's just idol worship. Let me know how that goes.
Or better yet go through some addiction yourself. Addiction isn't chronic idol worship, it's a physical or psychological compulsion that is out of the addict's control.
Also the notion that believers should magically not struggle with addiction suggests a perfectionist belief. Which is not biblical.
Some long winded blow hard that has never experienced addiction is not going to be my source for knowledge or insight on the matter.
Go tell a heroin addict going through withdrawls in a hospital they aren't really addicted, it's just idol worship. Let me know how that goes.
Or better yet go through some addiction yourself. Addiction isn't chronic idol worship, it's a physical or psychological compulsion that is out of the addict's control.
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you were doing great until you said that
that just gives everyone a free pass to go on in their addiction because hey i cannot help it.
i see people quit things all the time. all substances we know people who have quit it. secular people. why couldnt Christians stop it if secular people can? it was in their control. you can go through withdrawal witth determination. with or without the help of Jesus. people have done it without Jesus so whats our excuse for not doing it with Jesus?
i know people in my family drug addicts who have quit succesfully. they did get saved.
that just gives everyone a free pass to go on in their addiction because hey i cannot help it.
i see people quit things all the time. all substances we know people who have quit it. secular people. why couldnt Christians stop it if secular people can? it was in their control. you can go through withdrawal witth determination. with or without the help of Jesus. people have done it without Jesus so whats our excuse for not doing it with Jesus?
i know people in my family drug addicts who have quit succesfully. they did get saved.
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Exactly. All one has to do is say "I QUIT". And then quit.
For further motivation, every addict could add up the cost of cigarettes, alcohol, or narcotics, and see that the cost is horrendous. That is throwing money down the drain. So here's another strong motivator.
Let's say that the price of a pack of cigarettes in $15 and the smoker smokes two packs a day. That is $30 x 30 = $900/mth x 12 = $10,800 per year.
If this person invested $10,800/year and earned 5% interest compounded annually, he would have $160,225 in ten years in his savings account.
For further motivation, every addict could add up the cost of cigarettes, alcohol, or narcotics, and see that the cost is horrendous. That is throwing money down the drain. So here's another strong motivator.
Let's say that the price of a pack of cigarettes in $15 and the smoker smokes two packs a day. That is $30 x 30 = $900/mth x 12 = $10,800 per year.
If this person invested $10,800/year and earned 5% interest compounded annually, he would have $160,225 in ten years in his savings account.
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It seems like saying an addiction is a disease might lessen the impact of someone taking it seriously to stop the addiction having an excuse it is a disease so they cannot stop, but are actually enjoying it.
And it seems like it is idolatry for they are putting their addiction above God, which the Bible says they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
The truth is there is no such thing as struggling with sin only not submitting to the Spirit, which many are not really trying to beat it, or they do not believe the power of the Spirit can help them overcome it.
For there are many people that make excuses for their wrong doing as if they cannot overcome the flesh.
But the Bible says those that are led of the Spirit shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they can endure, so they are not tempted as hard as the world, and will give them an escape from the temptation.
That is why there is no excuse, but maybe some people do not understand this being a babe in Christ.
Maybe they think it is all up to them to overcome the addiction, for if people with addictions knew the truth that by the Spirit they can have the power to overcome the addictions why do they need people to help them when the Spirit is better at helping them overcome the addiction for that is an inside job that a human cannot affect.
So either they do not know the truth, or they do not want to actually quit.
And it seems like it is idolatry for they are putting their addiction above God, which the Bible says they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
The truth is there is no such thing as struggling with sin only not submitting to the Spirit, which many are not really trying to beat it, or they do not believe the power of the Spirit can help them overcome it.
For there are many people that make excuses for their wrong doing as if they cannot overcome the flesh.
But the Bible says those that are led of the Spirit shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they can endure, so they are not tempted as hard as the world, and will give them an escape from the temptation.
That is why there is no excuse, but maybe some people do not understand this being a babe in Christ.
Maybe they think it is all up to them to overcome the addiction, for if people with addictions knew the truth that by the Spirit they can have the power to overcome the addictions why do they need people to help them when the Spirit is better at helping them overcome the addiction for that is an inside job that a human cannot affect.
So either they do not know the truth, or they do not want to actually quit.