A QUESTION ON ETERNAL HELL

[Dibby53]

This is a great, valid question.

Why are you not sure you will get into heaven?

Thanks Jacob. The afteflife is probably nothing like we think it is.....however, would I want to go? Not if the many people I have loved and do love are not there. I admit I am hovering on the fringes of christianity, not sure even if there is anything there for me. I certainly cannot relate to a God who is so callous as to throw kind people into hell for not believing! I,m probably condemned already in many eyes.......but I don't think God is afraid of my questions.

 

[Dibby53]

And the winner for Best Afterlife Predictions of Heaven, Hell and whatever else goes to ..............
So we will all attend an Academy Awards Ceremony. You should get good odds for the Catholic view. It has really lost favouritism.....


...

And the winner is....drum roll...........?.....................JOHN CALVIN! Huh? WTF? ..........oh dear! That's me done!

 

[tourist]

Thanks
There seem to be 3 main interpretations of scripture concerning hell.
1. Eternal conscious torture.
2. Anhillationism, the second death
3. Eternal restoration, everyone or at least the majority saved eventually.
Already on this thread there are differences happening between believers.
My view tends towards number 3. That God's punishments are purifying and restorative. Fire is used as a symbol of purification.

I am hoping that #3 is true but providing spiritual evidence is problematic.

 

[morefaithrequired]

Thanks Jacob. The afteflife is probably nothing like we think it is.....however, would I want to go? Not if the many people I have loved and do love are not there. I admit I am hovering on the fringes of christianity, not sure even if there is anything there for me. I certainly cannot relate to a God who is so callous as to throw kind people into hell for not believing! I,m probably condemned already in many eyes.......but I don't think God is afraid of my questions.

my 2 cents?
your faith is maturing.
for me Christianity is the best answer to lifes meaning. Our challenge is accept what we cant fathom and make the most of what we can.

 

[morefaithrequired]

No wonder people have doubts about Christians and Christianity. Like this thread proves. We cant always give them good clear answers.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks
Yes, if God is vastly more loving than me, and he is saddened. Then it doesn't sound like he will enjoy heaven much either!

Heaven has three meanings in Scripture; the one you refer to is simply the abode of God. We do not go to live there. Rather, when the current heavens and earth are destroyed at the end of this age, and all things made new, the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth. Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. Rev 21:1-3

 

[Magenta]

Thanks Jacob. The afteflife is probably nothing like we think it is.....however, would I want to go? Not if the many people I have loved and do love are not there. I admit I am hovering on the fringes of christianity, not sure even if there is anything there for me. I certainly cannot relate to a God who is so callous as to throw kind people into hell for not believing! I,m probably condemned already in many eyes.......but I don't think God is afraid of my questions.

Dearest Dibby… Instead of assuming that people deserve to live an extended upgraded version of life, when they have done nothing to deserve the life they are already living, how does it make sense to assert that they merit more life given to them when they refuse to acknowledge the Giver of Life in the first place?

 

[Magenta]

In Romans 11:13, we are told that Paul has been chosen by God as the Apostle to the Gentiles. I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. (Ephesians 3:7) Acts 20:24 tells us that God gave Paul the distinct message of the Gospel [good news] of the Grace of God, and the Revelation of the Mystery (Romans 6:25; Ephesians 3:3) for the Church, the Body of Christ (Colossians 2:18) in the Dispensation of Grace (Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25).
As C. I. Scofield has stated,

“In his [Paul’s] writings alone we find the doctrine, position, walk, and destiny of the church.” (Scofield Reference Bible, Ephesians 3:6).

Here is how many times Paul mentioned "hell" in his writings,
and what was ascribed to him as having said in Acts:

0
0
0
0
0
0
0

That's right, Paul mentions hell exactly zero times. He claimed to have not neglected giving the full counsel of God, and told us that we should follow him even as he follows Christ.

 

[morefaithrequired]

Dearest Dibby… Instead of assuming that people deserve to live an extended upgraded version of life, when they have done nothing to deserve the life they are already living, how does it make sense to assert that they merit more life given to them when they refuse to acknowledge the Giver of Life in the first place?

i was just thinking a similar thing if I am not too far off base. Older people need to be grateful for just making it to that age. Im 61. I need to be grateful for getting to this age without a serious disability. There were times I drove a car intoxicated. What a blessing that I didnt maim or kill anyone including myself. Praise the Lord I am alive! And live to post the news on here!

 

[Magenta]

i was just thinking a similar thing if I am not too far off base. Older people need to be grateful for just making it to that age. Im 61. I need to be grateful for getting to this age without a serious disability. There were times I drove a car intoxicated. What a blessing that I didnt maim or kill anyone including myself. Praise the Lord I am alive! And live to post the news on here!

Amen and ditto!

 

[Noose]

Yes I can get that Noose. It's not that people are necessarily going to hell; they maybe there already. Ask those poor souls in a war zone.

I'm not talking about hell as in living conditions but status of our mind after death.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I was wondering. How on earth would I enjoy heaven (assuming I get in!) if there are people I love in eternal torment, who didn't believe?

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

At that time, we will be immortal and glorified and the former things will not even enter our minds. Those of our relatives who end up condemned in the lake of fire, will have put themselves there by rejecting God's offer of salvation through faith in the His Son.

 

[morefaithrequired]

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

At that time, we will be immortal and glorified and the former things will not even enter our minds. Those of our relatives who end up condemned in the lake of fire, will have put themselves there by rejecting God's offer of salvation through faith in the His Son.

are there any fish in the lake? just want to know whether to bring my fishing rod

 

[JesusLives]

My understanding is that everyone is given a chance to make a choice for or against God... I understand there are tribes that have never heard about God and I also believe that every one is born with a conscience telling them right from wrong. God is just and He knows the light or understanding each person has and the good news is that God know everything about us so if a person lives up to the knowledge that they have God judges them on that.

So if we have had the advantage of being able to worship God and taught about Him and make our choice or if it is someone who has not had that advantage but lived up to doing right and listening to their conscience which I believe is prompted by the Holy Spirit. I see no reason why they would not be saved.

I also believe that some people choose not to have anything to do with God and think it is all a fable and don't want to have anything to do with God they don't listen to their conscience and do whatever they want hurting others and themselves. I believe they would be miserable in Heaven and that would be hell for them.

As I read my Bible this is what I believe.

1. That the wages of sin is death.
Romans 6:23 Not eternal torment.

2. That the dead know nothing.
Ecclesiastes 9:5For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten. 6Their love, their hate, and their envy have already vanished, and they will never again have a share in all that is done under the sun.…

3. The wicked will be ashes under our feet.
Malachi 4:3Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.

I believe that the wicked and Satan and his evil angels will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be burned up after some period of time but after the fuel is burned up the fire will go out. They will perish and be as though they had never been not because God delights in punishment but it was their choice from rejecting the sacrifice God had made for them.

The last thing thrown into the lake of fire is death.

4. There will be a new heaven and a new earth.
Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

5. God will live with us and wipe away our tears.
Revelation 21:3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

I find comfort in knowing that God will live with us.

 

[Dibby53]

I am hoping that #3 is true but providing spiritual

Dearest Dibby… Instead of assuming that people deserve to live an extended upgraded version of life, when they have done nothing to deserve the life they are already living, how does it make sense to assert that they merit more life given to them when they refuse to acknowledge the Giver of Life in the first place?

Maybe it is not a question of "deserving" the lives we have. Life is a free gift.....we are here because life is unconditional. I would also say that every time we are kind, considerate, generous and loving we do acknowledge the Giver of life. When Zacchaeus, the tax collector, said he was going to be kind and repay everyone whom he had wronged, Jesus said, "Today salvation has come". He didn't say, " Right, you need to say the sinners prayer, believe these doctrines and if you dont then i,m afraid your out!"

The good Samaritan was good because of his kindness. Not because of what he believed. In fact what he believed was considered heretical, but Jesus used him as an example.

In modern evangelical christianity though it's not like that. Belief structures seem more important than the state of one's heart. Does acknowledging the Giver of life mean having the right belief structures, or being loving?

 

[Dibby53]

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

At that time, we will be immortal and glorified and the former things will not even enter our minds. Those of our relatives who end up condemned in the lake of fire, will have put themselves there by rejecting God's offer of salvation through faith in the His Son.

That is no comfort to me.

 

[Dibby53]

i was just thinking a similar thing if I am not too far off base. Older people need to be grateful for just making it to that age. Im 61. I need to be grateful for getting to this age without a serious disability. There were times I drove a car intoxicated. What a blessing that I didnt maim or kill anyone including myself. Praise the Lord I am alive! And live to post the news on here!

I,m grateful too! I,m 53 and have found life quite a ride. The older you get the more funerals you go to, thats for sure.
It's an interesting point you make though. Christians will quite often say that "we all get the opportunity in this life to repent" and that we need to find God whilst on earth, and if we don't then we are in big trouble........forever! However we don't all get the same life conditions or even opportunities. My sister died of cancer at age 32 in 1982. A lad I know died at about age 12 of leukaemia in 1978. Someone else will live until 100 quite healthy. And yet we all have the same chance to turn to God? I don't think so.

 

[Dibby53]

my 2 cents?
your faith is maturing.
for me Christianity is the best answer to lifes meaning. Our challenge is accept what we cant fathom and make the most of what we can.

Maybe Jesus and his message is the best answer to life's meaning......I,m not sure about much of christianity though

 

[Adstar]

I was wondering. How on earth would I enjoy heaven (assuming I get in!) if there are people I love in eternal torment, who didn't believe?

Christians will be changed,, transformed on the day of the reasurection.. So why do you assume a person will have the same way of thinking in eternity as they think now??? You think that way because you are a human and human thinking is what you trust in..

We shall be changed..

1 Corinthians 15
:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is no comfort to me.

It is not a comfort to you presently. However, after you have become immortal and glorified, those things will no longer matter to you or any believer. As the scripture states, the former things will have passed away. You are not comforted now, because you are still mortal. But after you have become immortal and glorified, He will wipe away every tear from your eyes, including the pain that you might feel because of relatives and friends who will have rejected Christ and who will not have attained eternal life. Another scripture states that those things will not even enter our minds.