Gather 'Round Peter

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Jan 12, 2019
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#21
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1Pet 2:1-3 . . Lay aside all evil speaking

The Greek word for "evil speaking" is katalalia (kat-al-al-ee'-ah) which
basically means defamation; defined by Webster's as the act of
communicating false statements about a person that injures their reputation.


Talking about someone behind their back counts as defamation only when
the statements are untrue; especially if the statements are deliberately
untrue and calculated to assassinate someone's character and/or question
their good name.


1Pet 2:2 . . As newborn infants, desire the pure milk of the word, that you
may grow thereby.


When Christians neglect to study Peter's epistles to learn what is, and what
is not, appropriate behavior for Christ's followers, they are certain to end up
stunting their spiritual growth; and quite naturally retain and practice all five
of the ugly behaviors listed above; viz: malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and
evil speaking.
_
i recall this 40 days of prayer held recently in my country where they chose to focus explicitly on peter in all the scripture used.

You would have loved to participate in that.
 

Webers.Home

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#22
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1Thess 5:15 . . See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever
follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Christian conduct isn't a temporary uniform kept in the closet just for
Sunday mornings like the rather odd patrons who wear costumes at Star
Trek conventions.

No, Christian conduct is every-day wear: in the home, on the job, at
school, at the beach, at the mall, at the park, at the beach, in restaurants, in
amusement centers, at the zoo, at the circus, on the internet, et al; in other
words: ever-followed; not just at church on Sunday morning; which makes
ever following that which is good somewhat stressful at first; until it
becomes second nature, like driving a car. Once you've learned the controls,
you don't think about it anymore; but you've got to start sometime or you'll
never get it.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#23
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1Pet 2:21-23 . . Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that
you should follow His steps . . who, when he was reviled, did not revile in
return

There's a couple of Greek words translated "revile" in that passage. The first
is loidoreo (loy-dor-eh'-o) which means to reproach, i.e. vilify; in other
words: insult; defined by Webster's as to treat with insolence, indignity, or
contempt.

The second word is antiloidoreo (an-tee-loy-dor-eh'-o) which means to rail in
reply; i.e. toxic rejoinders.

What we're looking at is the apostle Peter testifying to Christ's practicing
what he preached about turning the other cheek; which some apparently
seem to honestly believe has gone out of vogue.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#24
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1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

The Greek word translated "love" in that passage is agapao (ag-ap-ah'-o)
which is actually a very easy love to practice because it doesn't consist of
sentiments like affection and fondness; which are components of the other
love in the New Testament translated from the Greek word phileo (fil-eh'-o).

Agapao is impersonal; commonly expressed in things like charity, kindness,
sympathy, lenience, and tolerance; viz: agapao isn't expressed by liking
people; rather, it's expressed by being nice to people, i.e. civil; defined by
Webster's as adequate in courtesy and politeness: mannerly.

Phileo, on the other hand, is personal and not as common as agapao
because phileo is felt rather than expressed; viz: phileo refers to emotional
attachments.

An excellent contrast between the two loves is seen by comparing John 3:16
and John 16:27.

In the first; God is shown sympathetic.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

In the latter, God is shown affectionate.

"The Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed
that I came from God."

Obtaining God's sympathy is very easy because that's on Him; whereas
winning His affections is not so easy because that's on us.

John 15:10 . . If you obey my commands, you will abide in my love, just
as I have obeyed my Father's commands and abide in His love.

Anyway; 1Pet 1:22b only requires Christians to be civil, which I'm convinced
is within every Christian's capabilities; even for Christians whose sensitivities
are those of a catcher's mitt or a wooden nickel.

A pure fervent heart refers to taking Peter's requirement seriously enough to
make a conscientious effort to comply with it; viz: every Christian, even the
bi-polar ones, really ought to be doing their level best to be good people not
just some of the time, nor even most of the time; but all the time-- at the
very least among themselves and with each other.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#25
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1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

The Greek word translated "honor" is timao (tim-ah'-o) which basically
means to prize, i.e. fix a valuation upon and/or to revere

The first place that timao shows up in the New Testament is Matt 15:4 which
reads:

"God said: Honor your father and mother."

Right after the Flood, God outlawed murder; and the reason given for the
ban was not because murder is necessarily wrong, but because people are
made in the likeness of God. (Gen 9:5-6)

James criticizes the use of language that expresses a wish that someone be
sent to hell. The reason given is not because that sort of language is
necessarily wrong, but because people were made in the likeness of God.
(Jas 3:8-9)

In other words; murder and cursing dishonors the likeness of God, and by
extension dishonors God too.

From that I gather that failure to treat everyone with dignity-- regardless of
age, race, or gender --not only dishonors men but by extension also
dishonors God in whose likeness everyone was made.

FAQ: Does that mean even serial killers, mass murderers, and monsters like
Osama Bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Saddam
Hussein, and crooks like Al Capone and Bernie Madoff have to be treated
humanely and with dignity the same as everyone else?

A: Yes, absolutely because the honor that Peter is talking about doesn't have
to be earned, merited or otherwise deserved.

Take for example Lev 19:32 which reads like this:

"Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere
your God. I am The Lord"

The honor required for senior citizens doesn't have to be earned, merited or
otherwise deserved. The only requirement is age; and failure to dignify
senior citizens is all the same as failure to dignify God.

NOTE: You can tell a lot about people by the way they treat senior citizens.
Now that I myself am old and gray-haired, I'm sensitive to things like that.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#26
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1Pet 2:17c . . fear God, honor the king.

Webster's defines kings as 1) monarchs, 2) paramount chiefs and/or 3) one
that holds a preeminent position; e.g. monarchs, sovereigns, presidents,
prime ministers, czars, chairmen, etc.

There is currently throughout America a wave of hate, hysteria, and
disrespect for the U.S. President the intensity of which is unlike anything I've
ever seen in my 75 years on this planet. I should hope that none of Christ's
followers get caught up in it.

Christians don't have to particularly like Mr. Trump as a person, but we do
have to render him the dignity and the respect that a president's position
has been given by God. Failure to do so not only fails to comply with the
apostle Peter's instructions, but also fails to fear God.

Prov 24:21 . . My son, fear The Lord and the king; have nothing to do with
those who hate them.
_
 

Jackson123

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#27
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1Pet 2:17c . . fear God, honor the king.

Webster's defines kings as 1) monarchs, 2) paramount chiefs and/or 3) one
that holds a preeminent position; e.g. monarchs, sovereigns, presidents,
prime ministers, czars, chairmen, etc.

There is currently throughout America a wave of hate, hysteria, and
disrespect for the U.S. President the intensity of which is unlike anything I've
ever seen in my 75 years on this planet. I should hope that none of Christ's
followers get caught up in it.

Christians don't have to particularly like Mr. Trump as a person, but we do
have to render him the dignity and the respect that a president's position
has been given by God. Failure to do so not only fails to comply with the
apostle Peter's instructions, but also fails to fear God.

Prov 24:21 . . My son, fear The Lord and the king; have nothing to do with
those who hate them.
_
Christian have to love every body not to hate why hate Mr Trump? We have to love him No matter what.
 

Webers.Home

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#28
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1Pet 2:17b . . love the brotherhood

The Greek word translated "brotherhood" is adelphotes (ad-el-fot'-ace)
which appears in only two places in the entire New Testament; both are in
the apostle Peter's epistles: one here and the other in 1Pet 5:9.

It's a curious word because it essentially refers to a fraternity; defined by
Webster's as a group of people associated or formally organized for a
common purpose, interest, or pleasure; i.e. persons of the same class,
profession, character, or tastes: for example leagues, guilds, societies, and
trade unions.

"We're all in this together" pretty much sums up adelphotes; for example
1Pet 5:8-9 which reads:

"Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a
roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the
faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are
undergoing the same kind of sufferings."

But now; exactly who is in this frat about which Peter speaks? Well, the
apostle identifies them by his greeting in 1Pet 1:1-2 which reads:

"To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus,
Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to
the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the
Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood"

Just to be on the safe side, assume that Peter's greeting applies to anyone
and everyone calling themselves a Christian regardless of their
denominational affiliation. This can be done very easily just by following his
instructions to honor all men. (see post No.25)

One thing to our advantage is that the Greek word for "love" in 1Pet 2:17 is
impersonal, viz: it doesn't require affection, it only requires that we be
humane, e.g. civil, courteous, friendly, peaceable, hospitable, sympathetic,
tolerant, lenient, forgiving, charitable, and generous. In other words; we
don't actually have to like our fellow Christians, we only have to allow them
the dignity that the image and likeness of God deserves.
_
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#29
The orthodox view is that the Holy Spirit is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. In other words, your comments are heretical.
I have not heard that idea before. Why would they say that? God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly infallible interpreter(daysman) set between the unseen eternal and that seen the temporal..

Are they saying the Holy Spirit is not the Son of God (not seen) as eternal God . . or not the temporal the Son of man, seen ?

The Son of man, Jesus has a beginning. And when he left he said; men could never know him again by looking at the temporal things. That must mean something. ?

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.Hebrew 7:3

It would seem someone was not "mixing faith" in what they do see or hear. Their orthodox view seems to fall short of the promise of hearing the gospel .Perhaps they did not use the 20/20 presciptipion to help us mix faith .. using the things seen to give us the un seen eternal understanding?

We should be careful on how we hear or say we hear. The seed snatcher is always ready to rob God of His glory.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Perhaps they had a literalist understanding .That kind of orthodox would seem to make mixing faith heretical. Are those who do mix faith searching for the unseen understanding in parables. . . heretics?


Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#30
According to our Maker by means of what He gave Isaiah to pass on to those who willunderstand and believe, Jesus, is to be called such names as the Everlasting Father, Comforter, Counselor, Ruler of Peace God Almighty…...……..that covers it all, nothing heretical about Isaiah I hope. God bless all to understand, once and for all.
 

Webers.Home

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#31
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1Pet 3:3-5 . . Wives, let not your adornment be merely external-- braiding
the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses --but let it be the
hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and
quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

Some of the more ascetic Christians have attempted to use that passage to
insist it's wrong for women to wear cosmetics. No, the apostle Peter is only
reflecting an old Portuguese proverb that goes something like this: A beleza
não ajusta a tabela
. (Beauty doesn't set the table) which simply means a
pretty girl might be amazing in yoga pants but quite ineffective as a
homemaker.

Hollywood movies often portray "spirited" women as somehow desirable. No,
they aren't desirable; they're feral, they demean men and make them
miserable. Hollywood also commonly portrays women slapping men in the
face and getting away with it. That is NOT what Peter means by a "gentle
and quiet spirit" and besides, slapping is the criminal act of assault and
battery-- not what I would call setting a good example for growing girls.

Matt 5:3 . . Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.

Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peaceable: for they shall be known as God's
kin.

An assertive, confrontational woman is neither peaceable nor poor in spirit;
no, in point of fact she's quite militant, obnoxious, chafing, critical,
temperamental, impudent, and arrogant. Those might be desirable
characteristics for strong females in television and movie roles but clearly
not desirable in a Christian wife.

When a Christian wife gets all dressed up to her nines, but yet lacks a
"gentle and quiet spirit" then her ensemble is incomplete. In point of fact, an
assertive, confrontational wife is, in reality, nothing less than a barnyard
animal.

Prov 11:22 . . As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman
which is without discretion.

So then, by all means Christian women should continue to shop at

SEPHORA, but at the same time make an effort to be agreeable too.
_
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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#32
I have not heard that idea before. Why would they say that? ... Are they saying the Holy Spirit is not the Son of God (not seen) as eternal God . . or not the temporal the Son of man, seen ?
Yes, they are saying that the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son of God.
 

Webers.Home

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#33
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1Pet 3:7a . . You husbands, dwell with your wives according to knowledge

The Greek word for "knowledge" is gnosis (gno'-sis) which means knowing
(as information) in other words: facts and/or ideas acquired by study,
investigation, observation, or experience.

Gnosis is different than "intuition" which Webster's defines as: the power, or
faculty, of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational
thought and inference.

Gnosis is different than "instinct" too, which Webster's defines as: (1) a
natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity, (2) a largely inheritable
and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific
response to environmental stimuli without involving reason, and (3)
behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level; viz: a
mental and/or emotional knee-jerk reflex.

So then, Peter is talking about husbands applying instructed knowledge of
Christian social skills to their marriages.

There are young boys being brought up by macho (a.k.a. toxic) fathers
teaching their sons to "control their women". Well, that might be an
acceptable marriage philosophy in the home of a Muslim fundamentalist
and/or a club-toting Neanderthal, but not in the home of a man passing
himself off as one of Christ's followers. In a pious home, Christian husbands
are neither required nor expected to tame their Christian wives seeing as
how the onus is upon the wives themselves to exercise self control.

NOTE: It's required of Christ's followers to love their enemies but it's not
required to like their enemies nor is it required to always have a good
opinion about them. However, though a Christian husband's love need not
include the elements of affection and/or fondness; his love does need to
include the element of diplomacy; which Webster's defines as skill in
handling affairs without arousing hostility, viz: tact.
_
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#34
Yes, they are saying that the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son of God.
Hmmmm? The Holy Spirit is NOT the Son of God as our high priest continually without beginnig of day or end.?

The scripture seems to appose that idea.

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrew 7:3

The Holy Spirit performs the priestly duties. He who is of one mind always does whatsoever his soul pleasures. The Holy Spirit of Christ as the Son of God. . . makes our hearts soft.

Two attributes define the government of God. (Anthropomorphism) God is not a man as us.. Father and Son are attributes of the Spirit of Truth. He remains without descent. No family tree.

Below both the Son of man flesh the temporal (no power) and the Son of God power as eternal God the Holy Spirit are both mentioned.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (no power ) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#35
Hmmmm? The Holy Spirit is NOT the Son of God as our high priest continually without beginnig of day or end.?

The scripture seems to appose that idea.
That verse doesn't. There is no word "appose" in the English language. The Holy Spirit is not the Son of God.
 

Webers.Home

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#36
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1Pet 3:7b . . Give honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,

The koiné Greek word for "honor" is time (tee-may') which means: a value,
i.e. money paid.

The word for "weaker" is asthenes (as-then-ace') which means: having no
strength, i.e. fragile.

And the word for "vessel" is skeuos (skyoo'-os) which can indicate anything
from a soup bowl to a file cabinet or a cardboard box; in other words: a
container.

Peter isn't saying women are physically weaker than men; but that Christian
husbands should exercise the same care with their wives as they would a
fragile antique worth thousands of dollars like, say, a Ming vase. Nobody in
their right mind handles a Ming vase like a farmer handles a 5-gallon bucket.
Not that some women couldn't take that kind of handling; it's just that its
unbecoming for a Christian man to lack sensitivity for his wife's feelings.

This Ming-vase value isn't an intrinsic value, nor is it a deserved value
either; but rather, it's a gratuitous value. In other words: Christ commands
Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with Dresden china
even if she's as tough as a female cop and/or a UFC mixed martial artist the
likes of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not a choice; no, it's not a choice; it's
an order.

Christian husbands who treat their Skil saws and their tomato plants with
more care and concern than they treat their wives can just forget about
associating with God on any meaningful level.

1Pet 3:7c . . as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers
be not hindered.

Note the word "together" which is quite the opposite of autonomy and/or
independence.

Couples sometimes assert themselves with words like "What I do is between
me and The Lord." No; not when you're married. Marriage changes
everything between one's self and The Lord because people become one
flesh in marriage: no longer two.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#37
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1Pet 3:8a . . Finally, all of you be of one mind,

Peter’s not talking about the nerve center of a Borg-hive collective. The
Greek word for "one mind" is homophron (hom-of'-rone) which means:
harmonious; and this is the only place in the entire New Testament where
that word appears.

Webster’s defines "harmonious" as: 1) musically concordant, 2) having the
parts agreeably related; viz: congruous, and 3) marked by accord in
sentiment or action.

Peter's instructions emphasize the third element-- "marked by accord in
sentiment or action". Head-strong Christians, domineering Christians, those
for whom every disagreement is either an affront or an act of war to win at
any cost-- those for whom the word diplomacy has no meaning --of course
have trouble complying with 1Pet 3:8a; that is: if they even consider it
worthy of their notice.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#38
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1Pet 3:8b-9 . . having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be
pitiful, be courteous; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but
contrariwise blessing.

"compassion" is from the Greek word sumpathes (soom-path-ace') which
means: having a fellow-feeling; viz: sympathetic, i.e. (by implication)
mutually commiserative: empathetic.

One of the meanings of commiserate is condole: like when we share
someone's grief at the passing of a loved one, or their job has been
outsourced to cheap labor in a foreign country, or they've lost their entire
retirement fund to an unscrupulous corporation like ENRON, or their life
savings to a crooked Ponzi schemer like Bernie Madoff, or when there's news
from their doctor they have to begin chemo-therapy for a recently detected
advanced cancer, or when the car of a single mom with limited income
needs expensive repairs.

People in those predicaments are in sore need of condolences, and they are
in no mood for philosophical platitudes.

The Greek word for "railing" is loidoria (loy-dor-ee'-ah) which means slander
or vituperation; which Webster's defines as 1) to abuse or censure severely
or abusively; viz: berate, and 2) to use harsh condemnatory language.

Rejoinders fall into that category; which are defined as a usually rude or
angry reply to something written or said; viz: insensitive come-backs
deliberately meant to hurt people's feelings; viz: tit for tat. That kind of
behavior doesn't go unnoticed.

Matt 12:36-37 . . I say to you, that every careless word that men shall
speak, they shall render account for it in the day of judgment. For by your
words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#39
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1Pet 3:10-11 . . Let him who means to love life and see good days refrain
his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile. And let him turn away
from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

Webster's defines "guile" as duplicity which is defined as: contradictory
doubleness of thought, speech, or action; especially in the belying of one's
true intentions by deceptive words or action; in other words, speaking with a
forked tongue and/or saying one thing while meaning another.

Quite a bit is said in the Bible about the words people speak, whereas little
to nothing is said about the words they write. That could be because so
many people back in the day were illiterate. But surely one's written words
have just as much voice as one's spoken words.

Good and evil are here juxtaposed as benevolence vs malevolence, i.e. good
will vs ill will.

To "seek peace and pursue it" is blessing-worthy.

Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the
children of God.

If it's true that only peaceable kinds of people qualify to wear the label
"children of God" then the opposite is just as true: difficult Christians are
unworthy of the distinction.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#40
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1Pet 4:8 . . Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because
love hides a large number of sins.

A person easily provoked is not a loving person.

One Saturday morning I and another man at church were moving some
furniture from one place to another inside the main building where,
completely unknown to us, a wedding rehearsal was being conducted.

The woman in charge of organizing the wedding came out into the hall and
began scolding us for talking and making noise. When I pointed out that
there were no posted signs in the hallway indicating a function in progress
on the other side of the door, she became sullen, and tightened her lips and
narrowed her eyes in anger.

Had that lady exemplified the love about which Peter wrote, she would have
handled her inconvenience with a little more tact and sensitivity, i.e.
diplomacy.

Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be known as
God's kin.

BTW: That same lady was also in the choir, and sang doxologies in front of
about 2,000 people every Sunday morning. She was good at musical
harmony, but obviously in sore need of some training in the civil kind.
_