Is unconditional election biblical?

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Is unconditional election biblical?

  • Yes, unconditional election is biblical.

    Votes: 23 43.4%
  • No , unconditional election is not biblical.

    Votes: 27 50.9%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 3 5.7%

  • Total voters
    53

Whispered

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Not really what I was addressing, perhaps you could go back and ask for clarification if I was not clear.
It was what you addressed. If you did not articulate correctly your thoughts, please choose to rephrase. But do not claim I did not understand what you actually wrote.
If you don't like what was posted in response that's perfectly fine. As the wisdom tells us, ‘It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.’
 

Whispered

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They are not made totally depraved by God. Another strawman you erected to tear down. They are born totally depraved via the fall of Adam.

I’m going to consider all of you Don Quixote’s. The ones you are really fighting are the windmills in your minds.
I feel sorry for your horse.

Calvinism proceeds from the affirmation God predestined all things! Furthermore, the elect of God, per Calvinism, were selected before anything came to exist.
If God had not predetermined the fall, God would not have first predetermined whom He would save from the consequence of the fall.
Therefore, all is of God, all is predestined by God, as Calvinism teaches when it insists its doctrine is grounded in God's Sovereignty.

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
It was what you addressed. If you did not articulate correctly your thoughts, please choose to rephrase. But do not claim I did not understand what you actually wrote.
If you don't like what was posted in response that's perfectly fine. As the wisdom tells us, ‘It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.’
I was disagreeing with this there is no evidence to support this.

I would suggest the moment you read someone who claims they are Calvinist say non-Calvinists are saved, you know you're speaking to someone who is not actually Calvinist.
Calvin's ideas were complex and he often seemed to change his views over time.... so really to talk about a person being a "Calvinist" is really a rather ill defined label although it gets banter about a lot.

I am not even sure Calvin was a Calvinist.

That's all I have to say...carry on :)
 
Oct 25, 2018
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I feel sorry for your horse.

Calvinism proceeds from the affirmation God predestined all things! Furthermore, the elect of God, per Calvinism, were selected before anything came to exist.
If God had not predetermined the fall, God would not have first predetermined whom He would save from the consequence of the fall.
Therefore, all is of God, all is predestined by God, as Calvinism teaches when it insists its doctrine is grounded in God's Sovereignty.

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
God HAS predestined all things. I feel sorry for those of your ilk who want a god that bows to your whims and desires. You all want a god you can control.

Good bye to you.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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Whispered

Well-known member
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I was disagreeing with this there is no evidence to support this.
Except that there is.



Calvin's ideas were complex and he often seemed to change his views over time.... so really to talk about a person being a "Calvinist" is really a rather ill defined label although it gets banter about a lot.

I am not even sure Calvin was a Calvinist.

That's all I have to say...carry on :)
Same here. And I shall. Thank you. :)
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Fascinating. I'd have never thought you'd refer to a different religious discussion forum so as to provide the answer to my request for a link to the alleged quote by Leighton Flowers. And on a page wherein our own Preacher4Truth is the member there making inquiry of the quote in question.
Small world, yes?
That was where Flowers made that claim. That was where he was exposed for the heretic he really is. There was no other place to provide his statement of knowing God as a “personal achievement”.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Fascinating. I'd have never thought you'd refer to a different religious discussion forum so as to provide the answer to my request for a link to the alleged quote by Leighton Flowers. And on a page wherein our own Preacher4Truth is the member there making inquiry of the quote in question.
Small world, yes?
I am ‘convicted1’ on there, btw.
 

Whispered

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God HAS predestined all things. I feel sorry for those of your ilk who want a god that bows to your whims and desires. You all want a god you can control.

Good bye to you.
Ah, but as pertains to the tenets of Calvinism, which you ignored. And for good reason as you have been found to not actually sustain Calvinism as a personal ideology. Else you'd not have made such a glaring error as previously noted.
And goodbye to you. If you don't find Christ that shall be for eternity. Tragic indeed. :(
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Ah, but as pertains to the tenets of Calvinism, which you ignored. And for good reason as you have been found to not actually sustain Calvinism as a personal ideology. Else you'd not have made such a glaring error as previously noted.
And goodbye to you. If you don't find Christ that shall be for eternity. Tragic indeed. :(
I didn’t find the Christ, He found me. :) But thanks for calling what He cleaned dirty. He admonished Peter for doing that in Acts 10.
 

Whispered

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That was where Flowers made that claim. That was where he was exposed for the heretic he really is. There was no other place to provide his statement of knowing God as a “personal achievement”.
Ah, well, lets see shall we?
The quote from your link and attributed to Skandelon, "Knowing God is a "personal achievement' for which God tells us to boast in, unless you have an alternative definition of what boasting entails? " (I do agree that is a picture of Leighton Flowers)

2 Corinthians 10:17-18
But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD. For it is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends.
 

Whispered

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I didn’t find the Christ, He found me. :) But thanks for calling what He cleaned dirty. He admonished Peter for doing that in Acts 10.
Another one that does not read what is actually posted, but creates their own fiction and then responds to it. Are you a triplet?
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Ah, well, lets see shall we?
The quote from your link and attributed to Skandelon, "Knowing God is a "personal achievement' for which God tells us to boast in, unless you have an alternative definition of what boasting entails? " (I do agree that is a picture of Leighton Flowers)

2 Corinthians 10:17-18
But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD. For it is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends.
But that’s not what he said. A personal achievement is something we accomplished. He’s saying his knowing God was something he did. That’s heresy.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I guess you have never read Romans 7:14-25.
what an absolutely perfect example of a non sequitur

as I have said, when a Calvinist or one who believes bascically as one refuses to acknowledge scritpurem they have many tactics available (they think) to move the conversation along while still holding ground (false belief on their part)

you might as well have said 'there is no oxygen on the moon'

at least that would have been true :rolleyes:

you know, you would do better to say nothing than attempt to negate scripture totally unrelated to what you, apparently, have no knowledge to of

now here comes some more natural vs spiritual man that has no application whatsoever


rinse repeat ad infinitum
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Two verses do not harmonize the whole message of the Saint Apostle Paul's letter.

If you had read the entire chapter you would realize there is no conflict between what 7 observed and what Paul said there.
The Book of Romans chapter 7

Released from the Law
Or do you not know, brothers[a]—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For (A)a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.[b] 3 Accordingly, (B)she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, (C)you also have died (D)to the law (E)through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, (F)in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work (G)in our members (H)to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the (I)new way of (J)the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c]
The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, (K)I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if (L)the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, (M)seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. (N)For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment (O)that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, (P)seizing an opportunity through the commandment, (Q)deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So (R)the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, (S)sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For (T)I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with (U)the law, that it is good. 17 So now (V)it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells (W)in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 (X)For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, (Y)it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For (Z)I delight in the law of God, (AA)in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members (AB)another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from (AC)this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

FOOTNOTES
Still sounds like Paul has a war within himself, the mind against the flesh.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
:ROFL: If my posting isn't sufficient as well as all the other information with sources shared here,that's just too bad.
All the information is information, it is not data, it is not relevant/connected to what people out there actually believe.