One being God

[wattie]

In looking at the trinity, I have seen a lot of diagrams that have the Holy Spirit, Father and Son all being God..

..but that the Holy Spirit is not the Father, the Son is not either.. the Father is not either..

So the question I have is how is God one being .. but then each person of God not being the same as the other?

I do believe in the deity of all 3 persons.. but I struggle to think if them as separate given God is one being.

I suppose if you look at a person for an analogy .. they have a body mind and soul.. and the body isn't the mind or the soul.

Anyway... your thoughts?

 

[JaumeJ]

Again I ask all to learn the following Scripture, Isaiah 9:6...
Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Hungry]

Again I ask all to learn the following Scripture, Isaiah 9:6...
Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I ask that you examine the text it was translated from. https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/9-6.htm
It doesn’t say everlasting Father. The word given means eternal. Father was added. Elohim does not mean God, always in the Bible. More often it means gods, or angels or rulers. Like in Isaiah 45:5 it could very well be interpreted, “I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and there is no other, there is no other ruler (or judge) but me.”https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/45-5.htm

The Bible doesn’t declare there is only one god (el). It declares there is only one Jehovah (self existing God), and this is who we pray to. There is a Trinity but the Son is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Christ. Because people don’t want to be heretics by going against the belief propagated that there is only one god, they twist scripture to accommodate this belief. There is only one Yahweh, and He is Lord if all elohim (gods, angels, rulers, judges). His Son is the Christ, Yeshua (Jesus). That’s what the Bible actually states.

 

[JaumeJ]

I ask that you examine the text it was translated from. https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/9-6.htm
It doesn’t say everlasting Father. The word given means eternal. Father was added. Elohim does not mean God, always in the Bible. More often it means gods, or angels or rulers. Like in Isaiah 45:5 it could very well be interpreted, “I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and there is no other, there is no other ruler (or judge) but me.”https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/45-5.htm

The Bible doesn’t declare there is only one god (el). It declares there is only one Jehovah (self existing God), and this is who we pray to. There is a Trinity but the Son is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Christ. Because people don’t want to be heretics by going against the belief propagated that there is only one god, they twist scripture to accommodate this belief. There is only one Yahweh, and He is Lord if all elohim (gods, angels, rulers, judges). His Son is the Christ, Yeshua (Jesus). That’s what the Bible actually states.

I read the Word in several languages, one of which is the original Hebrew/Aramaic texts of the OT.

 

[PS]

I ask that you examine the text it was translated from. https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/9-6.htm
It doesn’t say everlasting Father. The word given means eternal. Father was added. Elohim does not mean God, always in the Bible. More often it means gods, or angels or rulers. Like in Isaiah 45:5 it could very well be interpreted, “I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and there is no other, there is no other ruler (or judge) but me.”https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/45-5.htm

The Bible doesn’t declare there is only one god (el). It declares there is only one Jehovah (self existing God), and this is who we pray to. There is a Trinity but the Son is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Christ. Because people don’t want to be heretics by going against the belief propagated that there is only one god, they twist scripture to accommodate this belief. There is only one Yahweh, and He is Lord if all elohim (gods, angels, rulers, judges). His Son is the Christ, Yeshua (Jesus). That’s what the Bible actually states.

You must surely agree that the self existing one is our eternal father?

So why the nit-picking?

 

[Hungry]

I read the Word in several languages, one of which is the original Hebrew/Aramaic texts of the OT.

Good, then you obviously agree that the Trinity is three separate entities, and Yeshua is not the Father.

 

[Hungry]

You must surely agree that the self existing one is our eternal father?

So why the nit-picking?

I was answering the question on whether the Trinity was individuals or the same person. I was giving solid proof that the Bible in its original form doesn’t state that the child born is the Eternal Father. If people did more nit-picking on their own they would clearly get a grasp of what the Bible says, what it means, who God is and why He made us.

 

[PS]

I was answering the question on whether the Trinity was individuals or the same person. I was giving solid proof that the Bible in its original form doesn’t state that the child born is the Eternal Father. If people did more nit-picking on their own they would clearly get a grasp of what the Bible says, what it means, who God is and why He made us.

Then you need to do more research like smoky did.

1) In Mt 1:23, Jesus is "YHWH with us."​

​

2) In Mt 3:3; Mk1:7-8; Lk 3:16; Jn 1:29-34, Jesus is the YHWH of Isa 40:3.​

​

3) In Ro 10:9, 13-16, Jesus is the YHWH of Joel 2:32.​

​

4) In Heb 1:6, Jesus is the YHWH of Dt 32:43.​

​

5) In Lk 1:67-68, 76, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zechariah.​

​

6) In Lk 1:41-43, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Elizabeth.​

​

7) In Eph 4:8-9, Jesus is the LORD GOD (YHWH) of Ps 68:18.​

​

8) In Jn 19:37, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zec 12:8-10.​

​

9) In Lk 4:18-21, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Isa 61:8​

​

10) In Rev 1:12-18, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH), the First and Last of Isa 44:6, 48:12.​

​

11) In Rev 22:13-16, Jesus is the LORD GOD, the Alpha and the Omega of Rev 21:6-7.​

​

12) In Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39; Rev 20:11-13, Jesus is God on the Throne of Rev 21:5, 7.​

​

13) In Jn 1:3, 10; Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 10, Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Ge 1:1; Isa 44:24; Jer 10:16.​

​

II. The NT states that the Holy Spirit is both a person and God:​

​

1) Jesus, whom the NT shows to be God (above), said the Holy Spirit proceeded from​

(came forth from, out of) God just as he did per Jn 15:26.​

​

2) Jesus, who is God, said the Holy Spirit was another Comforter like himself (God) per Jn 14:16-17,​

25-26, 15:26, 16:7.​

​

3) The NT refers to the Holy Spirit with​

personal pronouns (he, him, his),​

personal titles (Comforter) and​

personal functions (intelligence, will, speaking, deciding, forbidding, testifying, searching into secrets,​

showing the future, sending out missionaries, interceding),​

showing he is a person.​

​

III. Jesus presents the Triune God:​

​

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular, one God) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 28:19)​

​

IV. The NT presents Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the baptism of Jesus:​

​

"At that moment heaven was opened, and Jesus saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.​

And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Father speaking) per Mt 3:16-17.​

​

Scripture presents three separate divine persons in the one being of God.​

​

Last edited by smoky; 01-09-2016 at 04:36 PM.

 

[morefaithrequired]

Three expressions of the one God?
God the son had to show us the meaning of obedience and loyalty to the Father.
The Holy Spirit was necessary to take the place of Jesus who was ascending into Heaven.
ok?

 

[Hungry]

Then you need to do more research like smoky did.

1) In Mt 1:23, Jesus is "YHWH with us."​

​

2) In Mt 3:3; Mk1:7-8; Lk 3:16; Jn 1:29-34, Jesus is the YHWH of Isa 40:3.​

​

3) In Ro 10:9, 13-16, Jesus is the YHWH of Joel 2:32.​

​

4) In Heb 1:6, Jesus is the YHWH of Dt 32:43.​

​

5) In Lk 1:67-68, 76, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zechariah.​

​

6) In Lk 1:41-43, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Elizabeth.​

​

7) In Eph 4:8-9, Jesus is the LORD GOD (YHWH) of Ps 68:18.​

​

8) In Jn 19:37, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zec 12:8-10.​

​

9) In Lk 4:18-21, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Isa 61:8​

​

10) In Rev 1:12-18, Jesus is the LORD (YHWH), the First and Last of Isa 44:6, 48:12.​

​

11) In Rev 22:13-16, Jesus is the LORD GOD, the Alpha and the Omega of Rev 21:6-7.​

​

12) In Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39; Rev 20:11-13, Jesus is God on the Throne of Rev 21:5, 7.​

​

13) In Jn 1:3, 10; Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 10, Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Ge 1:1; Isa 44:24; Jer 10:16.​

​

II. The NT states that the Holy Spirit is both a person and God:​

​

1) Jesus, whom the NT shows to be God (above), said the Holy Spirit proceeded from​

(came forth from, out of) God just as he did per Jn 15:26.​

​

2) Jesus, who is God, said the Holy Spirit was another Comforter like himself (God) per Jn 14:16-17,​

25-26, 15:26, 16:7.​

​

3) The NT refers to the Holy Spirit with​

personal pronouns (he, him, his),​

personal titles (Comforter) and​

personal functions (intelligence, will, speaking, deciding, forbidding, testifying, searching into secrets,​

showing the future, sending out missionaries, interceding),​

showing he is a person.​

​

III. Jesus presents the Triune God:​

​

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular, one God) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 28:19)​

​

IV. The NT presents Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the baptism of Jesus:​

​

"At that moment heaven was opened, and Jesus saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.​

And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Father speaking) per Mt 3:16-17.​

​

Scripture presents three separate divine persons in the one being of God.​

​

Last edited by smoky; 01-09-2016 at 04:36 PM.

If you put more faith in your own research and less into Smoky then you would see that Lord in the NT means lord, not Jehovah like in the OT. Also God is translated from theos meaning divine being, again not Jehovah. Zeus and Apollo are theos. That’s not a statement of belief just an example of definition. You believe what you want. I can only show you what it actually says. Clearly you prefer the interpretation of Smoky.

 

[PS]

If you put more faith in your own research and less into Smoky then you would see that Lord in the NT means lord, not Jehovah like in the OT. Also God is translated from theos meaning divine being, again not Jehovah. Zeus and Apollo are theos. That’s not a statement of belief just an example of definition. You believe what you want. I can only show you what it actually says. Clearly you prefer the interpretation of Smoky.

I have pages of my own research, and if Jesus said He is the I AM, then I suggest you do not make Him out to be a liar.

JESUS SAID

John 6:51:"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever;"

John 8:23: And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:12: Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I AM the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John 10:11: "I AM the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

John 19:2: Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'He said, "I am the King of the Jews."'

Acts 9:5: And he (Paul) said, "Who are You, Lord?" And the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads."

Jesus is God

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Finally we see God’s eternal nature who has the name Jesus Christ.
13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever!

 

[Hungry]

I have pages of my own research, and if Jesus said He is the I AM, then I suggest you do not make Him out to be a liar.

JESUS SAID

John 6:51:"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever;"

John 8:23: And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:12: Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I AM the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John 10:11: "I AM the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

John 19:2: Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'He said, "I am the King of the Jews."'

Acts 9:5: And he (Paul) said, "Who are You, Lord?" And the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads."

Jesus is God

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Finally we see God’s eternal nature who has the name Jesus Christ.
13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever!

If I write, or say, “I am a plumber,” to you, does this mean I am calling Jehovah a plumber? Perhaps Christ was just using, “I am...” in its proper tense and not addressing Himself as the Great I Am in many of the references you chose. Regardless, I would have just ignored your post if it wasn’t so obviously far reaching. Like I said believe what you want.

 

[bluto]

Again I ask all to learn the following Scripture, Isaiah 9:6...
Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Let me just ask you point blank jaumel, are you saying that Jesus Christ who is the subject of Isaiah 9:6 the person of God the Father?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[JaumeJ]

Good, then you obviously agree that the Trinity is three separate entities, and Yeshua is not the Father.

You have no right , not from man, not from our Father, to broadcast to all a doctrine I could never believe nor would I care to. Studey Isaiah 9:6u, and you will see and understand that God ddtells usTey are One.

God bless you with Understanding, wisdom and knowledge from Him personnally, and separate yo from the thinking of men.

 

[tourist]

Good, then you obviously agree that the Trinity is three separate entities, and Yeshua is not the Father.

I certainly agree to that. The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Holy Spirt, and the Holy Spirit is not the Son. There are three separate entities comprising one God.

 

[JaumeJ]

The teaching given us through Isaiah is from God, Who is One. He is not confused nor does He confuse. Isaiah 9:6 a is directly from God's mouth to Isaiah and penned to us...…..no deception contained within. Can you change the meaning of Isaiah 9:6 and yet dbe truthful? Nope. I think not. Now you remain the blessing you have always been and be blessed by our Everlasting Father alwas......it is safe to say God will be any way He wills to be for He truly is all mighty.

 

[crossnote]

If I write, or say, “I am a plumber,” to you, does this mean I am calling Jehovah a plumber? Perhaps Christ was just using, “I am...” in its proper tense and not addressing Himself as the Great I Am in many of the references you chose. Regardless, I would have just ignored your post if it wasn’t so obviously far reaching. Like I said believe what you want.

The Jews in His day knew exactly what He meant, and it wasn't calling himself a plumber or some facsimile...

John 8:58-59 NKJV
[58] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." [59] Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Hungry]

You have no right , not from man, not from our Father, to broadcast to all a doctrine I could never believe nor would I care to. Studey Isaiah 9:6u, and you will see and understand that God ddtells usTey are One.

God bless you with Understanding, wisdom and knowledge from Him personnally, and separate yo from the thinking of men.

You read it. In the Hebrew form, “Father” is not listed. It only states “everlasting”. I do not contest Yeshua is deity, nor that He existed before He was born in the flesh. He and the Father existed together, separately. Elohim means gods, plural. It is always different when expressing God as One. It’s clearly what the Bible states without men adding meaning to it. If it wasn’t for God blessing me with understanding, wisdom and knowledge I probably would be stumbling in the dark following blind guides. May the Eternal Father bless you. I know you are speaking to me as a brother in an effort to lead me to the truth. The Lord has guided me and I see where man has gone astray.

 

[Hungry]

The Jews in His day knew exactly what He meant, and it wasn't calling himself a plumber or some facsimile...

John 8:58-59 NKJV
[58] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." [59] Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

If you read what “I Am” means, Christ used it appropriately. I Am means “exist” When God stated it, He was declaring Himself the “self-existing God” which is what Jehovah means. When Christ said it He states, “Before Abraham, I exist”, which translates to the same as “I am”. He was calling Himself deity, not the Father. I really don’t care whether you all believe this. It is clear. Look it up or believe what other men have taught you. God taught me and that is why every time I look it up, for myself it is evident, that men add meaning to what is written.

 

[bluto]

In looking at the trinity, I have seen a lot of diagrams that have the Holy Spirit, Father and Son all being God..

..but that the Holy Spirit is not the Father, the Son is not either.. the Father is not either..

So the question I have is how is God one being .. but then each person of God not being the same as the other?

I do believe in the deity of all 3 persons.. but I struggle to think if them as separate given God is one being.

I suppose if you look at a person for an analogy .. they have a body mind and soul.. and the body isn't the mind or the soul.

Anyway... your thoughts?

The Bible makes it clear that there are three and only three persons in the Bible who are IDENTIFIED" as God in all of the ways that the Bible identifies God: by His name, title, unique attributes (or nature), and His unique actions.

For example, the Father is "obviously" idntified as God all over the place, the Son is identifed as God at various places including John 20:28 where Thomas declares the highest form of worship by saying to Jesus Christ Himself literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me." The Holy Spirit is identifed as God at Acts 5:4.

And yet there is only one God. How are they one? They are one in nature just like we are one in nature by being human beings, that is our nature. Jesus Christ has two natures, one on His mothers side, human and one on His Father's side, deity. This is why Jesus often referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God."

Moreover, the three persons of the Trinity are "NOT" separate persons but rather "DISTINCT" persons. There is a difference between the words "separate" and "distinct." The word separate implies more than one God. Also, I've heard people say "three separate beings." This to implies more than one God or polytheism. It is a universal law that a son shares the same nature as its father. Dogs beget other dogs, beavers beget other beavers etc. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, and may I add this is not hard to understand. PS: Isaiah 9:6 was brought up and the verse or the phrase "Eternal Father" is "NOT" teaching that Jesus Christ is God the Father. This would be known as "Modalism" which the oneness pentecostals teach and it is a heretical teaching.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto