WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?
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COMPLETELY FALSE or COMPLETELY FALSE, to the best of your knowledge? One way is bearing false witness, the other an opinion.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
God gives us a choice. He even tells us he is going to give and allow false doctrines, IT IS to test and prove us all. Everyone chooses whom they will follow. We all will stand before God, 100% responsible for our choices and our actions but most of all what we teach others as far as HIS WORD goes.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
God gives us a choice. He even tells us he is going to give and allow false doctrines, IT IS to test and prove us all. Everyone chooses whom they will follow. We all will stand before God, 100% responsible for our choices and our actions but most of all what we teach others as far as HIS WORD goes.
You’re equating the word gospel to always mean eternal salvation. That’s a false outlook. Gospel simply means a good news message.
The disciples did not understand the gospel unto salvation which is how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again for our sins. Is that not the gospel of grace unto salvation?
Here, Jesus mentions it to the twelve and they had no clue. Why? God hid it from them until after it happened.
Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
The disciples did not understand the gospel unto salvation which is how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again for our sins. Is that not the gospel of grace unto salvation?
Here, Jesus mentions it to the twelve and they had no clue. Why? God hid it from them until after it happened.
Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
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Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Deuteronomy 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings
Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
(except, of course, not the "raptured church", they say, they will receive no testing, trying or proving from God, no death, no judgement, no standing, no need of armor, no trial, no availably for the Holy Spirit, no help to the two witnesses, or the 144,000 etc.)
1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. (thats pre trib)
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world
1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth, they trust in vanity, and speak lies, they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
Isaiah 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web, he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Isaiah 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity wasting and destruction are in their paths.
Isaiah 59:8 The way of peace they know not and there is no judgment in their goings they have made them crooked paths whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isaiah 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us, we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isaiah 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes we stumble at noon day as in the night we are in desolate places as dead men.
Isaiah 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves we look for judgment, but there is none for salvation, but it is far off from us.
Isaiah 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us for our transgressions are with us and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isaiah 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor therefore his arm brought salvation unto him and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.
Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
I know, I know, some of you don't think I don't know what I am saying, I am not rightly dividing, it is out of context, it is false, it doesn't apply to gentiles, it is not correctly dividing Israel from the church, etc.
So please, try to figure this out, If that is how you feel then this isn't for you and you saying it isn't true, doesn't make it any less so for those to whom it is.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Deuteronomy 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings
Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
(except, of course, not the "raptured church", they say, they will receive no testing, trying or proving from God, no death, no judgement, no standing, no need of armor, no trial, no availably for the Holy Spirit, no help to the two witnesses, or the 144,000 etc.)
1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. (thats pre trib)
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world
1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth, they trust in vanity, and speak lies, they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
Isaiah 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web, he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Isaiah 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity wasting and destruction are in their paths.
Isaiah 59:8 The way of peace they know not and there is no judgment in their goings they have made them crooked paths whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isaiah 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us, we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isaiah 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes we stumble at noon day as in the night we are in desolate places as dead men.
Isaiah 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves we look for judgment, but there is none for salvation, but it is far off from us.
Isaiah 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us for our transgressions are with us and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isaiah 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor therefore his arm brought salvation unto him and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.
Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
I know, I know, some of you don't think I don't know what I am saying, I am not rightly dividing, it is out of context, it is false, it doesn't apply to gentiles, it is not correctly dividing Israel from the church, etc.
So please, try to figure this out, If that is how you feel then this isn't for you and you saying it isn't true, doesn't make it any less so for those to whom it is.
Are these the words you speak when giving the gospel of grace? No mention of the d,b,r? Of course not. This is a literal proclamation of the return of the King as judge of the earth.
Revelation 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Revelation 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
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I know the pauline drill
Gather speed bumps of everyone but paul, then accuse all but paul of no knowledge of the gospel.
Like i said paul preached the gospel of the kingdom.
Remember,that is what the paulines use to discredit all but paul from knowing true salvation.
Facepalm.
Center in on what makes that pauline position impossible.
That entire deal is impossible.
The apostles and Jesus understood the gospel.
Gather speed bumps of everyone but paul, then accuse all but paul of no knowledge of the gospel.
Like i said paul preached the gospel of the kingdom.
Remember,that is what the paulines use to discredit all but paul from knowing true salvation.
Facepalm.
Center in on what makes that pauline position impossible.
That entire deal is impossible.
The apostles and Jesus understood the gospel.
We can clearly see the Jews are left behind and ushered to safety.
We clearly,clearly see that.
We clearly see that the foolish virgins are left behind and die...as you testify over yourself.
We also clearly see that believers are being tortured right now. Probably worse that merely removing the head....a quick painless death.
So,again,your case is n.a.
We clearly,clearly see that.
We clearly see that the foolish virgins are left behind and die...as you testify over yourself.
We also clearly see that believers are being tortured right now. Probably worse that merely removing the head....a quick painless death.
So,again,your case is n.a.
Why weren’t the twelve at the tomb on the third day anticipating the resurrection of Jesus? Upon hearing that the tomb was empty, they thought it was an idle tale.
Luke 24
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Wow! Peter wondering what has come to pass? Didn’t he know of the Lord’s resurrection?
Luke 24
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Wow! Peter wondering what has come to pass? Didn’t he know of the Lord’s resurrection?
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That’s after the resurrection! Ugh. After the resurrection, God opens the eyes of the twelve. Not one time before did the twelve preach the gospel of grace which is the d,b,r.
Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
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...and dont leave Jesus out of the precross disqualification.
"...if possible take this cup from me"
Uh,that would have damned the human race.
You are framing human-ness as a disqualifier of bible charachters.
Ya know,i never have tried to disqualify paul or anyone else.
The pauline doctrine ,has at its core,some bizarre need for just that....disqualify the apostles and Jesus,and the non pauline books.
"...if possible take this cup from me"
Uh,that would have damned the human race.
You are framing human-ness as a disqualifier of bible charachters.
Ya know,i never have tried to disqualify paul or anyone else.
The pauline doctrine ,has at its core,some bizarre need for just that....disqualify the apostles and Jesus,and the non pauline books.