Evolution and Hebrews 11:3

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crossnote

crossnote

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#1
Nov 24, 2012
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#1
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3 (KJV)

Shame on so-called Christians who embrace a form of evolution (theistic) compromising God's Word by denying Genesis chapter 1.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
crossnote said:
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3 (KJV)

Shame on so-called Christians who embrace a form of evolution (theistic) compromising God's Word by denying Genesis chapter 1.
Click to expand...
Obviously I 100% believe God is the creator and sustainer of life....I do however find the verbiage of Genesis very, very inteesting....in particular the two phrases....

Let the EARTH bring forth
Let the Sea bring forth

I also find it interesting that the BIRDS came from the sea.......!!
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#3
Nov 24, 2012
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dcontroversal said:
I also find it interesting that the BIRDS came from the sea.......!!
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Sorry, but I don't 'see' it...

Genesis 1:20-22 (KJV) And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#4
Dec 12, 2013
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#4
crossnote said:
Sorry, but I don't 'see' it...

Genesis 1:20-22 (KJV) And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
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The word AND is clear enough migo....and it states it twice.....
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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Missouri is the "Show-me" State………………..
 
D

DB7

Junior Member
#7
Dec 29, 2014
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#7
dcontroversal said:
Obviously I 100% believe God is the creator and sustainer of life....I do however find the verbiage of Genesis very, very inteesting....in particular the two phrases....

Let the EARTH bring forth
Let the Sea bring forth

I also find it interesting that the BIRDS came from the sea.......!!
Click to expand...
I would think that that's a translation issue, and that a properly placed comma in the KJV, or other equally ambiguous translations of those verses, would preclude the confusion?
For example, NIV.

Genesis 1:20-22 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth."
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#8
Jul 31, 2013
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#8
crossnote said:
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3 (KJV)

Shame on so-called Christians who embrace a form of evolution (theistic) compromising God's Word by denying Genesis chapter 1.
Click to expand...
i'm not sure this has anything to do with evolution but with the creation of the cosmos itself - the word there is 'ages' translated as worlds.
but if the suggestion is that by saying all that is visible was made from things invisible, the word is telling us that no creature was made from any visible substance which preceded it, therefore, no creature could have evolved from a creature that went before -- don't we have Adam, made from dust? dust which was visible and preceded him. so what do i do with that?
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#9
Nov 24, 2012
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posthuman said:
-- don't we have Adam, made from dust? dust which was visible and preceded him. so what do i do with that?
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Another argument against theistic evolution!
True, our bodies are made from dust, but man being comprised of both body and spirit, had God's breath breathed into him at a certain point in time. Of course, this happened before death had entered creation, so there could not have been a slow progression from dust to 'homo sapien'.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Gen 2:7)
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#10
#10
posthuman said:
i'm not sure this has anything to do with evolution but with the creation of the cosmos itself - the word there is 'ages' translated as worlds.
but if the suggestion is that by saying all that is visible was made from things invisible, the word is telling us that no creature was made from any visible substance which preceded it, therefore, no creature could have evolved from a creature that went before -- don't we have Adam, made from dust? dust which was visible and preceded him. so what do i do with that?
Click to expand...
This is interesting.
Just wondering, there is a scientist, Hugh Ross who is an old earth creationist, but he believes death preceded the fall?
I am very unsure of this...what are your thoughts?
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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#11
Sep 8, 2018
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#11
EleventhHour said:
This is interesting.
Just wondering, there is a scientist, Hugh Ross who is an old earth creationist, but he believes death preceded the fall?
I am very unsure of this...what are your thoughts?
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Well simple: Dr. Ross has educated himself out of common sense. DEATH CAME at the fall, not before it. No amount of education can fix ignoring simple facts like that!
 
E

EleventhHour

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#12
#12
Hevosmies said:
Well simple: Dr. Ross has educated himself out of common sense. DEATH CAME at the fall, not before it. No amount of education can fix ignoring simple facts like that!
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Yes I understand, but that is not enough when discussing the issue with someone who follows his ideas.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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#13
EleventhHour said:
Yes I understand, but that is not enough when discussing the issue with someone who follows his ideas.
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Hmm.. That would be TOUGH to convince someone in that situation. I guess what I would try to say would be:

God created everything and said it was "GOOD". Now if that included DEATH, why would DYING be considered "GOOD"? Think on that!

Thats' what i'd say. But im not no scholar so I already know nobody in those Dr. and Professor circles takes me seriously anyway.
 
E

EleventhHour

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#14
#14
Hevosmies said:
Hmm.. That would be TOUGH to convince someone in that situation. I guess what I would try to say would be:

God created everything and said it was "GOOD". Now if that included DEATH, why would DYING be considered "GOOD"? Think on that!

Thats' what i'd say. But im not no scholar so I already know nobody in those Dr. and Professor circles takes me seriously anyway.
Click to expand...
That is a good point, I wish I could pose it to Dr. Ross because overall he does seem to have a good grasp of scripture and science.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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#15
Sep 8, 2018
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#15
EleventhHour said:
That is a good point, I wish I could pose it to Dr. Ross because overall he does seem to have a good grasp of scripture and science.
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If you ever do get to ask him or someone who follows him that, I would LOVE to hear their response! And not to sound arrogant: I would CHANGE my views based on evidence provided from The Bible!
 
E

EleventhHour

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#16
#16
Hevosmies said:
If you ever do get to ask him or someone who follows him that, I would LOVE to hear their response! And not to sound arrogant: I would CHANGE my views based on evidence provided from The Bible!
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Well I may at Christmas, my niece a born again believer is a high school biology teacher and is well versed in this stuff.
I know she is very familiar with both Dr. Ross and Dr. Francis Collins (supposed Christian theistic evolutionist) so I hope I do get to a chance to ask her and I will get back to you!! :)
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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#17
#17
crossnote said:
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3 (KJV)

Shame on so-called Christians who embrace a form of evolution (theistic) compromising God's Word by denying Genesis chapter 1.
Click to expand...
What a strange thing to say...

Embrace a form of evolution.

Why does this scripture relate to some forms of evolution?

We have evidence of evolution with in species. "After their kind" allows room for some evolution. The American mustangs are a form of horse evolved from various saddle horses and no they are not just a cross breed, because they have become a breed of their own. They are adapted to their environment. We have no other breed of horse that can survive in such conditions.

We also have human evolution in the Bible, all the variants of human came from Noah's three sons. It would be plain stupidity to not see the vast difference between Icelandic folks and Sudanese folks.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#18
Nov 24, 2012
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#18
EleventhHour said:
This is interesting.
Just wondering, there is a scientist, Hugh Ross who is an old earth creationist, but he believes death preceded the fall?
I am very unsure of this...what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'll go with the Holy Spirit who not only witnessed the Fall but inspired Paul to say/write this...

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(Rom 5:12)

And if one tries to argue that 'death' only applied to the lower animal kingdom, then they would have to explain how Adam came to be without the cycle of life/death.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#19
Nov 24, 2012
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#19
Locoponydirtman said:
What a strange thing to say...

Embrace a form of evolution.

Why does this scripture relate to some forms of evolution?

We have evidence of evolution with in species. "After their kind" allows room for some evolution. The American mustangs are a form of horse evolved from various saddle horses and no they are not just a cross breed, because they have become a breed of their own. They are adapted to their environment. We have no other breed of horse that can survive in such conditions.

We also have human evolution in the Bible, all the variants of human came from Noah's three sons. It would be plain stupidity to not see the vast difference between Icelandic folks and Sudanese folks.
Click to expand...
These discussions normally follow macro-evolution and that is the framework of the OP.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#20
#20
crossnote said:
I'll go with the Holy Spirit who not only witnessed the Fall but inspired Paul to say/write this...

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(Rom 5:12)

And if one tries to argue that 'death' only applied to the lower animal kingdom, then they would have to explain how Adam came to be without the cycle of life/death.
Click to expand...
I agree completely... I just wish the "Christian" scientist would deal with this issue.
 
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