Can A Merciful God Condemn A Man To Hell Who Has Never Heard The Gospel, And Justify Himself In Doing So?
- Thread starter MessageOfTheCross
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L
This guy is short sighted.
True enough there is great pain in this veil of tears. It's not wise to trade all of eternity for this age. So while there is great suffering there is also greater reward. How foolish to throw off great reward because of temporary suffering. So we all struggle through this world of sin and death, we don't lose hope in its consolation that for all eternity there after we are beyond sin and death and the destruction that goes with it.
True enough there is great pain in this veil of tears. It's not wise to trade all of eternity for this age. So while there is great suffering there is also greater reward. How foolish to throw off great reward because of temporary suffering. So we all struggle through this world of sin and death, we don't lose hope in its consolation that for all eternity there after we are beyond sin and death and the destruction that goes with it.
-
1
- Show all
No disrespect, but to just keep things truthful, Psalms 53:2-3, says that God looked down from heaven and saw by his foreknowledge that no one would seek him, no, not one. This is why it was necessary for God to choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and give them to Jesus to adopt them as his children and Jesus payed the adoption fee by his death on the cross.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The natural man only has the faith of man. The only way that you can have spiritual faith is to be born of the Spirit because spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit. The point is that being born of the Spirit has nothing to do with man's faith, nor of his good works. That is why it is described as by God's sovereign grace.
Rev 20:13, states that at the great white throne judgement, when the seas give up their dead, etc..., “Each man will be judged according to what he has done.”
I think Jesus is the Way, to the Father, but spiritually there are different ways to Jesus. He stated that he who has His commandments and obeys them, it is he who loves Him. Whether Someone follows His commandment to love because he said, or just because they are intuitively inclined to do so, the commandment is being followed. I’ve met some genuinely caring individuals who may not declare Christ as Lord but still obey Him.
I think Jesus is the Way, to the Father, but spiritually there are different ways to Jesus. He stated that he who has His commandments and obeys them, it is he who loves Him. Whether Someone follows His commandment to love because he said, or just because they are intuitively inclined to do so, the commandment is being followed. I’ve met some genuinely caring individuals who may not declare Christ as Lord but still obey Him.
Until after the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, nobody was born again...including John the Baptist. In the O/T they were saved, however they could not go to Heaven...only down below to Paradise (the blood of goats and bulls couldn't take away sin). Remember, Jesus said that the N/T Saints will be greater than John the Baptist who was the greatest in the O/T. Remember also that Jesus went down to Paradise to set the captives free; Satan still had a legal right to hold them (but could not mess with them) because the blood of bulls and goats could not satisfy the sin debt.
Being born again is when God regenerates a person and puts the Holy Spirit within them, which is what happened to Moses. Isaiah 63:11, Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his Holy Spirit within him?
You will never understand the grace of God until you have understood how corrupt we are my our nature, even those that have been born again, because we still carry the baggage of our fleshly nature. The scripture that you have referenced is talking about born again people. Paul tells of his battle of the flesh against the Spirit.
-
1
- Show all
L
Exactly,
I find it a horrific discouragement to many Christians who love God and love Jesus, that struggle with their sins. Many question their salvation because they are taught they should have the power of the holy Spirit to over come sin, yet they struggle.
They say I believe and confess Jesus and pray, God must have rejected me. To which I point them to Romans, and show them Paul struggling with his sins. Then a day something to the effect of, as long as this corpse hangs around your neck you will struggle. I also say that there are those who have all appearances of having over come the flesh and they will even testify that they have, but they are dishonest about the sins of their heart. That person is in real danger because they are as the Pharisees who had the appearance of righteousness but we're rotten to the core.
My advice, stay honest about your sins and stay in confession, God has mercy on this confession.
I find it a horrific discouragement to many Christians who love God and love Jesus, that struggle with their sins. Many question their salvation because they are taught they should have the power of the holy Spirit to over come sin, yet they struggle.
They say I believe and confess Jesus and pray, God must have rejected me. To which I point them to Romans, and show them Paul struggling with his sins. Then a day something to the effect of, as long as this corpse hangs around your neck you will struggle. I also say that there are those who have all appearances of having over come the flesh and they will even testify that they have, but they are dishonest about the sins of their heart. That person is in real danger because they are as the Pharisees who had the appearance of righteousness but we're rotten to the core.
My advice, stay honest about your sins and stay in confession, God has mercy on this confession.
Jesus said these words in John 14:17, "the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
In other words the Holy Spirit was with them {some}, but could not live in them until the Cross; Jesus had to be glorified, seated at the right hand of the Father.
37 In the last day, that great day of the Feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on Me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of Living Water.
39 (But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7
In other words the Holy Spirit was with them {some}, but could not live in them until the Cross; Jesus had to be glorified, seated at the right hand of the Father.
37 In the last day, that great day of the Feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on Me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of Living Water.
39 (But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7
Let me put it to you how God told me.
"Except a MAN be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven".
And then He said emphatically, "BABIES are NOT, MEN!!!"
God already took me down this road, and I don't need a second tongue lashing to get the revelation all over again. I got it the first time.
You now have two witnesses, stating, children go to heaven when they die at a young age.
Romans chapter 7:9 and the above verse.
Look up the definitions to the original language. Children are not held accountable for their actions until they are of age.
They have to first die spiritually like Adam did, and that doesn't happen when they are conceived, but when they come to adulthood.
As for the exact age of when that is, I don't know. I think it varies per person.
When the children of Israel sinned against God, and He made them wander in the wilderness, whose carcasses fell in the desert, both the children and the adults, or just the adults of 20 and up?
What was the age for a man to go to war?
Exo 30:12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
Exo 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs
an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.
Exo 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Num 1:3 From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.
"Except a MAN be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven".
And then He said emphatically, "BABIES are NOT, MEN!!!"
God already took me down this road, and I don't need a second tongue lashing to get the revelation all over again. I got it the first time.
You now have two witnesses, stating, children go to heaven when they die at a young age.
Romans chapter 7:9 and the above verse.
Look up the definitions to the original language. Children are not held accountable for their actions until they are of age.
They have to first die spiritually like Adam did, and that doesn't happen when they are conceived, but when they come to adulthood.
As for the exact age of when that is, I don't know. I think it varies per person.
When the children of Israel sinned against God, and He made them wander in the wilderness, whose carcasses fell in the desert, both the children and the adults, or just the adults of 20 and up?
What was the age for a man to go to war?
Exo 30:12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
Exo 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs
an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD. Exo 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Num 1:3 From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.