Once saved always saved ?

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Feb 14, 2011
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Is not the flesh crucified by those who have the mind of Christ? Can a gay love God with all of his heart and love his neighbor as himself?

if a gay realy loves God, he would follow his commandments.
if we follow the spirit, we deny the will of the flesh that is not in
agreement with Gods will. we sacrifice daily by not doing the wrong thing.
the flesh wants to do it, but the spirit says NO.

''wakeup''.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
if a gay realy loves God, he would follow his commandments.
if we follow the spirit, we deny the will of the flesh that is not in
agreement with Gods will. we sacrifice daily by not doing the wrong thing.
the flesh wants to do it, but the spirit says NO.

''wakeup''.
Ah yes, But paul makes it clear there are times we do not do what we want to do. We will not always follow the spirit. sometimes the flesh wins.

The spirit always says no. that is the war with in us. Which is why we must grow in Christ, then it comes easier to follow the spirit.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
"if our heart does not condemn us we know we are in right standing with God", how?, by abiding in His Word, life lived knowing thats it is in His righteousness taking us from strength to strength, enduring patiently and acknowledging whole heartedly that without Him we are lost. Taking up our cross daily, He will carry it for us and lift us up in open show that we are victorious in and only because of Him, casting all our cares and burdens upon Him

dangerous subject for baby christians, we cant have them believe that since they have accepted Jesus that its all ok to live life not according to the Fathers will, the tempter will throw darts saying "its ok, your under grace"
Resist the devil and He will flee, when we can do all that we can do and that is turn to Him and not sucumb to temptation. Yes we all fail at times, thats the beauty of grace and His love for us, when we do stumble we are not condemned however we just cant give up and abuse that grace, we have to make a stand and declare that its His righteousnes and strength and truth that empowers us to overcome. Flesh is weak but the spirit is strong
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
"if our heart does not condemn us we know we are in right standing with God", how?, by abiding in His Word, life lived knowing thats it is in His righteousness taking us from strength to strength, enduring patiently and acknowledging whole heartedly that without Him we are lost. Taking up our cross daily, He will carry it for us and lift us up in open show that we are victorious in and only because of Him, casting all our cares and burdens upon Him

dangerous subject for baby christians, we cant have them believe that since they have accepted Jesus that its all ok to live life not according to the Fathers will, the tempter will throw darts saying "its ok, your under grace"
Resist the devil and He will flee, when we can do all that we can do and that is turn to Him and not sucumb to temptation. Yes we all fail at times, thats the beauty of grace and His love for us, when we do stumble we are not condemned however we just cant give up and abuse that grace, we have to make a stand and declare that its His righteousnes and strength and truth that empowers us to overcome. Flesh is weak but the spirit is strong
I have never heard a "grace oriented church" tell anyone it is ok to sin. Just because we believe the way we do does not mean we allow people to go on in sin. or say it is ok. I am not sure where this thought came from. Unless again, it is against the licentious church. which as I have said, i do not follow.
 
I

Israel

Guest
if a gay realy loves God, he would follow his commandments.
if we follow the spirit, we deny the will of the flesh that is not in
agreement with Gods will. we sacrifice daily by not doing the wrong thing.
the flesh wants to do it, but the spirit says NO.

''wakeup''.

Does not being gay die with the flesh? So why then hold to a law that we are only subjected to while we yet live in the flesh?

Are you not rich in the good that you can see out of the law?
 
C

Consumed

Guest
two christians got married, they for what ever reason seperated and seeked to divorce, their church says "thats fine, grace". I was appalled and was encouraging the couple that they had the Holy Spirit there to heal them, the guy said "Gods ok with divorce, all comes under grace", i said its because of the hardness of your heart it has nothing to do with grace, grace will and is willing to heal and soften and bring back what God had brought together, they have children but he was adamant about grace covering it. Is that an abuse of grace that when trials and tribulations come you just throw your hands up and say "what the heck, grace". The woman, distraught, stopped going to church, wont go to one, she is so dis-illusioned with "Gods grace" to say the least.

killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace:eek:
 
Dec 19, 2009
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dangerous subject for baby christians, we cant have them believe that since they have accepted Jesus that its all ok to live life not according to the Fathers will, the tempter will throw darts saying "its ok, your under grace"
Though I see what you mean there is another side to it

I have seen so many give up with God and leave church, believing they cannot be 'good enough' for God
I honestly believe that if the crushed, broken, lame, blind, oppressed, downtrodden knew the truth they would flock to churches who proclaimed it, there would be standing room only
And I believe the power would be there too confirming the truth of the true Gospel

But I agree with you concerning the Christians who got divorced and the church said that's fine. That is not the true grace of the Bible
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
two christians got married, they for what ever reason seperated and seeked to divorce, their church says "thats fine, grace". I was appalled and was encouraging the couple that they had the Holy Spirit there to heal them, the guy said "Gods ok with divorce, all comes under grace", i said its because of the hardness of your heart it has nothing to do with grace, grace will and is willing to heal and soften and bring back what God had brought together, they have children but he was adamant about grace covering it. Is that an abuse of grace that when trials and tribulations come you just throw your hands up and say "what the heck, grace". The woman, distraught, stopped going to church, wont go to one, she is so dis-illusioned with "Gods grace" to say the least.

killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace:eek:
Two Christians Got Married., They, for whatever reason, separated and seeked to divorece. They both stated that God gives grace and its ok if they divorce. The church said that is not a good enough excuse. God does not condone divorce neither do we. Look at all the fatherless kids we have? how about the single mothers? Did God want this? God said marriage is a symbol of his church. They are one. Is God going to divorce us just because we screw up? What happened to "till death do us part, in sickness and in health. In good or bad. were those just words. Nothing good comes from divorce. Have you not seen even secular studies which show second marriages have very little success.. why would you risk it? Instead of getting a divorce, why do we not sit and try to see what it is that is the problem. There are no such thing as a perfect marriage, maybe your looking at the bad not at the good. Lets talk about this. either way, we can not condone divorce any more than wee can condone any sin.

Consumed, Not to be mean or anything. But why are you not trying to see what I believe, and those like me believe? Do you think we just let sinners live in sin?? The things you are posting are not followed by us.


Again, Your speaking against a licentious church. which I believe is no more saved than a legalistic church.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
Though I see what you mean there is another side to it

I have seen so many give up with God and leave church, believing they cannot be 'good enough' for God
I honestly believe that if the crushed, broken, lame, blind, oppressed, downtrodden knew the truth they would flock to churches who proclaimed it, there would be standing room only
And I believe the power would be there too confirming ther truth of the true Gospel

But I agree with you concernig the man who left his wife and the pastor said it is OK you are under grace.
That is not the true ghrace of the Bible
amen LBG, i understand totally where your coming from, we are to divide the word correctly being law from grace, encourage them with the things of God, to stand in the gap for them and not shun those who struggle, we all fall short. Im an advocate of Gods grace whole heartedly, not the abuse of it though
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Though I see what you mean there is another side to it

I have seen so many give up with God and leave church, believing they cannot be 'good enough' for God
I honestly believe that if the crushed, broken, lame, blind, oppressed, downtrodden knew the truth they would flock to churches who proclaimed it, there would be standing room only
And I believe the power would be there too confirming the truth of the true Gospel

But I agree with you concerning the Christians who got divorced and the church said that's fine. That is not the true grace of the Bible
Amen and Amen
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
amen LBG, i understand totally where your coming from, we are to divide the word correctly being law from grace, encourage them with the things of God, to stand in the gap for them and not shun those who struggle, we all fall short. Im an advocate of Gods grace whole heartedly, not the abuse of it though
Now to this I can say AMEN!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
Consumed, Not to be mean or anything. But why are you not trying to see what I believe, and those like me believe? Do you think we just let sinners live in sin?? The things you are posting are not followed by us.

Again, Your speaking against a licentious church. which I believe is no more saved than a legalistic church.
i do believe in the grace of God and all that entails. We cant nor ever should we condone sin, especially not condemn anyone for struggling. OSAS doctrine is dangerous to think(if aplied to accomadate the flesh) that no matter what one does grace will cover them, consequences do come from not following Gods will for us. Once saved Jesus will never give up on us and finish what He has started yes, but He so desires that we live an abundant full life here as well as in heaven
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
i do believe in the grace of God and all that entails. We cant nor ever should we condone sin, especially not condemn anyone for struggling. OSAS doctrine is dangerous to think(if aplied to accomadate the flesh) that no matter what one does grace will cover them, consequences do come from not following Gods will for us. Once saved Jesus will never give up on us and finish what He has started yes, but He so desires that we live an abundant full life here as well as in heaven
All doctrines are dangerous if taken the wrong way. I agree 100 % OSAS is dangerous if taken the licentious way. Yet not all OSAS believers are licentious.

I believe we should not fight the doctrine, but fight those who take the doctrine out of context to excuse their sin.

Like I said before. I fight legalists who claim I am licentious while at the same time fighting the licentious belief,

then fight the licentious who state I am legalistic, while at the same time fighting the legalistic belief.

If people would learn what people like us really believe, maybe we would not have to argue our position on two fronts so to speak..lol


 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
yeah no one is really right, doctrines can get crazy LOL
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Why is it thought that grace has something to do with mercy or forgiveness? It does not.

God is merciful to our sins, and His forgiveness is forever.

Grace is our drawing near to God, and His drawing near to us. Sin does, always has, hindered or prevented grace from happening.

Grace does not cover sin, rather grace occurs even though we do sin.

But realize this, that while in the presence of the living God, sin will not remain hidden, and God will demand the truth about our sin when we are with Him.

In Christ,
 
J

jonathan7

Guest
Once saved always saved? I believe that you CAN reject God after having been saved. Hebrews 10:26 states '
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

[27] but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
[28] A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
[29] How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

One of the responders stated that a Gift is not a gift if it can be taken back. The reality I believe is that a gift can be rejected and thrown away. which I think the above passage substantiates.

The passage states that there must be a deliberate disregard for God in order to lose salvation, so you really have to want to leave. Struggling with you faith is NOT something that warrants God taking back his gift.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why is it thought that grace has something to do with mercy or forgiveness? It does not.

God is merciful to our sins, and His forgiveness is forever.

Grace is our drawing near to God, and His drawing near to us. Sin does, always has, hindered or prevented grace from happening.

Grace does not cover sin, rather grace occurs even though we do sin.

But realize this, that while in the presence of the living God, sin will not remain hidden, and God will demand the truth about our sin when we are with Him.

In Christ,
Not sure I understand what your saying, but this is how i see it.

I do not deserve mercy. Thus mercy is an unmerited favor of God.

I do not deserve forgiveness, thus forgiveness is an unmerited favor of god.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
All doctrines are dangerous if taken the wrong way. I agree 100 % OSAS is dangerous if taken the licentious way. Yet not all OSAS believers are licentious.

I believe we should not fight the doctrine, but fight those who take the doctrine out of context to excuse their sin.

Like I said before. I fight legalists who claim I am licentious while at the same time fighting the licentious belief,

then fight the licentious who state I am legalistic, while at the same time fighting the legalistic belief.

If people would learn what people like us really believe, maybe we would not have to argue our position on two fronts so to speak..lol
thats why its important to put it all into perspective, if you and i just sat and talked you would find that i am on the same page, however new christians and seekers come on these sites looking for answers and there can lie the danger of appealing to ones flesh thru itchy ears.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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Once saved always saved is a deception which says that even though we sin, God loves us and saves us anyway. I believed this way for most of my christian life. It is wrong, dead wrong, because it calls blanket forgiveness grace. When we learn what grace truly is, we know, beyond any doubt, that we cannot lie about our sin, nor can we excuse it. God demands truth in the inner most parts, where He dwells.

In Christ,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Once saved always saved? I believe that you CAN reject God after having been saved. Hebrews 10:26 states '
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

[27] but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
[28] A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
[29] How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

One of the responders stated that a Gift is not a gift if it can be taken back. The reality I believe is that a gift can be rejected and thrown away. which I think the above passage substantiates.

The passage states that there must be a deliberate disregard for God in order to lose salvation, so you really have to want to leave. Struggling with you faith is NOT something that warrants God taking back his gift.
Again, I must disgree, A person who has true faith will not give back what he trusts. John makes this clear in his epistle.

Let me ask a question. Why would God, who is omniscient and knows everything we will ever do or say, Give someone salvation he knows does not realy trust (have faith in ) him, and one day going to give it back? This makes no sense to me.