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C
"if our heart does not condemn us we know we are in right standing with God", how?, by abiding in His Word, life lived knowing thats it is in His righteousness taking us from strength to strength, enduring patiently and acknowledging whole heartedly that without Him we are lost. Taking up our cross daily, He will carry it for us and lift us up in open show that we are victorious in and only because of Him, casting all our cares and burdens upon Him
dangerous subject for baby christians, we cant have them believe that since they have accepted Jesus that its all ok to live life not according to the Fathers will, the tempter will throw darts saying "its ok, your under grace"
Resist the devil and He will flee, when we can do all that we can do and that is turn to Him and not sucumb to temptation. Yes we all fail at times, thats the beauty of grace and His love for us, when we do stumble we are not condemned however we just cant give up and abuse that grace, we have to make a stand and declare that its His righteousnes and strength and truth that empowers us to overcome. Flesh is weak but the spirit is strong
dangerous subject for baby christians, we cant have them believe that since they have accepted Jesus that its all ok to live life not according to the Fathers will, the tempter will throw darts saying "its ok, your under grace"
Resist the devil and He will flee, when we can do all that we can do and that is turn to Him and not sucumb to temptation. Yes we all fail at times, thats the beauty of grace and His love for us, when we do stumble we are not condemned however we just cant give up and abuse that grace, we have to make a stand and declare that its His righteousnes and strength and truth that empowers us to overcome. Flesh is weak but the spirit is strong
E
I have never heard a "grace oriented church" tell anyone it is ok to sin. Just because we believe the way we do does not mean we allow people to go on in sin. or say it is ok. I am not sure where this thought came from. Unless again, it is against the licentious church. which as I have said, i do not follow.
C
two christians got married, they for what ever reason seperated and seeked to divorce, their church says "thats fine, grace". I was appalled and was encouraging the couple that they had the Holy Spirit there to heal them, the guy said "Gods ok with divorce, all comes under grace", i said its because of the hardness of your heart it has nothing to do with grace, grace will and is willing to heal and soften and bring back what God had brought together, they have children but he was adamant about grace covering it. Is that an abuse of grace that when trials and tribulations come you just throw your hands up and say "what the heck, grace". The woman, distraught, stopped going to church, wont go to one, she is so dis-illusioned with "Gods grace" to say the least.
killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace
killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace
Though I see what you mean there is another side to it
I have seen so many give up with God and leave church, believing they cannot be 'good enough' for God
I honestly believe that if the crushed, broken, lame, blind, oppressed, downtrodden knew the truth they would flock to churches who proclaimed it, there would be standing room only
And I believe the power would be there too confirming the truth of the true Gospel
But I agree with you concerning the Christians who got divorced and the church said that's fine. That is not the true grace of the Bible
I have seen so many give up with God and leave church, believing they cannot be 'good enough' for God
I honestly believe that if the crushed, broken, lame, blind, oppressed, downtrodden knew the truth they would flock to churches who proclaimed it, there would be standing room only
And I believe the power would be there too confirming the truth of the true Gospel
But I agree with you concerning the Christians who got divorced and the church said that's fine. That is not the true grace of the Bible
E
two christians got married, they for what ever reason seperated and seeked to divorce, their church says "thats fine, grace". I was appalled and was encouraging the couple that they had the Holy Spirit there to heal them, the guy said "Gods ok with divorce, all comes under grace", i said its because of the hardness of your heart it has nothing to do with grace, grace will and is willing to heal and soften and bring back what God had brought together, they have children but he was adamant about grace covering it. Is that an abuse of grace that when trials and tribulations come you just throw your hands up and say "what the heck, grace". The woman, distraught, stopped going to church, wont go to one, she is so dis-illusioned with "Gods grace" to say the least.
killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace
killed, stole and destroyed their marriage - in the name of grace
Consumed, Not to be mean or anything. But why are you not trying to see what I believe, and those like me believe? Do you think we just let sinners live in sin?? The things you are posting are not followed by us.
Again, Your speaking against a licentious church. which I believe is no more saved than a legalistic church.
C
amen LBG, i understand totally where your coming from, we are to divide the word correctly being law from grace, encourage them with the things of God, to stand in the gap for them and not shun those who struggle, we all fall short. Im an advocate of Gods grace whole heartedly, not the abuse of it though
C
i do believe in the grace of God and all that entails. We cant nor ever should we condone sin, especially not condemn anyone for struggling. OSAS doctrine is dangerous to think(if aplied to accomadate the flesh) that no matter what one does grace will cover them, consequences do come from not following Gods will for us. Once saved Jesus will never give up on us and finish what He has started yes, but He so desires that we live an abundant full life here as well as in heaven
E
All doctrines are dangerous if taken the wrong way. I agree 100 % OSAS is dangerous if taken the licentious way. Yet not all OSAS believers are licentious.
I believe we should not fight the doctrine, but fight those who take the doctrine out of context to excuse their sin.
Like I said before. I fight legalists who claim I am licentious while at the same time fighting the licentious belief,
then fight the licentious who state I am legalistic, while at the same time fighting the legalistic belief.
If people would learn what people like us really believe, maybe we would not have to argue our position on two fronts so to speak..lol
I believe we should not fight the doctrine, but fight those who take the doctrine out of context to excuse their sin.
Like I said before. I fight legalists who claim I am licentious while at the same time fighting the licentious belief,
then fight the licentious who state I am legalistic, while at the same time fighting the legalistic belief.
If people would learn what people like us really believe, maybe we would not have to argue our position on two fronts so to speak..lol
Why is it thought that grace has something to do with mercy or forgiveness? It does not.
God is merciful to our sins, and His forgiveness is forever.
Grace is our drawing near to God, and His drawing near to us. Sin does, always has, hindered or prevented grace from happening.
Grace does not cover sin, rather grace occurs even though we do sin.
But realize this, that while in the presence of the living God, sin will not remain hidden, and God will demand the truth about our sin when we are with Him.
In Christ,
God is merciful to our sins, and His forgiveness is forever.
Grace is our drawing near to God, and His drawing near to us. Sin does, always has, hindered or prevented grace from happening.
Grace does not cover sin, rather grace occurs even though we do sin.
But realize this, that while in the presence of the living God, sin will not remain hidden, and God will demand the truth about our sin when we are with Him.
In Christ,
J
Once saved always saved? I believe that you CAN reject God after having been saved. Hebrews 10:26 states '
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
[27] but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
[28] A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
[29] How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
One of the responders stated that a Gift is not a gift if it can be taken back. The reality I believe is that a gift can be rejected and thrown away. which I think the above passage substantiates.
The passage states that there must be a deliberate disregard for God in order to lose salvation, so you really have to want to leave. Struggling with you faith is NOT something that warrants God taking back his gift.
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
[27] but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
[28] A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
[29] How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
One of the responders stated that a Gift is not a gift if it can be taken back. The reality I believe is that a gift can be rejected and thrown away. which I think the above passage substantiates.
The passage states that there must be a deliberate disregard for God in order to lose salvation, so you really have to want to leave. Struggling with you faith is NOT something that warrants God taking back his gift.
Once saved always saved is a deception which says that even though we sin, God loves us and saves us anyway. I believed this way for most of my christian life. It is wrong, dead wrong, because it calls blanket forgiveness grace. When we learn what grace truly is, we know, beyond any doubt, that we cannot lie about our sin, nor can we excuse it. God demands truth in the inner most parts, where He dwells.
In Christ,
In Christ,
E
Again, I must disgree, A person who has true faith will not give back what he trusts. John makes this clear in his epistle.
Let me ask a question. Why would God, who is omniscient and knows everything we will ever do or say, Give someone salvation he knows does not realy trust (have faith in ) him, and one day going to give it back? This makes no sense to me.
Let me ask a question. Why would God, who is omniscient and knows everything we will ever do or say, Give someone salvation he knows does not realy trust (have faith in ) him, and one day going to give it back? This makes no sense to me.