Once saved always saved ?

[Red33]

I think you will find that VW along with eternally grateful understands what needs to be believed for a person to have eternal life, you do not seem to have grasped this sadly.

So you believe it is possible for a person to have the spirit of antichrist in them and still be saved?
When your beliefs are put under the microscope and we reach beneath the surface I am quite alarmed as to what you actually believe

In case you did not know Christ said that for a person to receive eternal life they must believe he is the son of God, that is what scripture actually says

But as you will not stand on the words of Christ when he walked this earth, or publically endorse them it shows that in effect you do not have a belief based on scripture but man
You appear to have a wooden understanding of scriptrure that does not allow for the heart of the Gospel

Did you get it all out? Do you feel better now?

The Son of God is the expressed image of His Father. There is no difference between the Father and the Son for they are one. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

1Jn 5:20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true--in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal.

Jn 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

So Jesus is asked a question of Philip ...

Jn 14:8,9 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.
9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

Hello, are you listening, can you hear what the Lord is telling Philip? Can you hear what the Spirit is saying here in the written word that always testifies of the truth?

Philip, IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER, Did you hear me, are you listening Philip? HOW CAN YOU SAY THEN, SHOW US THE FATHER? In other words Jesus could have answered, YOUR LOOKING AT HIM.

LBG, Are you angry that Jesus Christ made Himself equal with His Father when He answered Philip's question? Jesus, the only begotten God and true God and eternal life. That just gets me all excited and I want to jump up and down and praise the only begotten God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who was and is and is to come (Rev 1:5-8)...

5 And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who ever loves us and has once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,
6 And formed us into a kingdom (a royal race), priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the power and the majesty and the dominion throughout the ages and forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so [must it be]. Amen (so be it).
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord God, He Who is and Who was and Who is to come, the Almighty (the Ruler of all).

1Tim 1:15-17
15 The saying is sure and true and worthy of full and universal acceptance, that Christ Jesus (the Messiah) came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost.
16 But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
17 Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever (to the ages of ages). Amen (so be it).

If you want to go one step further, Jesus said He was in the Father and the Father was in Him, then we are in Christ and Christ is in us and we are his with Christ in God. I won't get into that but it is an awfully secure place to be as a sinner saved by grace, don't you think?

 

[SantoSubito]

when discussions take on the form of sarcasm however slight, grace, mercy love all become void and it becomes all flesh not spirt.

Are you a Catholic, Consumed, or do you have other reasons for sporting the flag of the Holy See?

 

[livingbygrace]

Did you get it all out? Do you feel better now?

The Son of God is the expressed image of His Father. There is no difference between the Father and the Son for they are one. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

1Jn 5:20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true--in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal.

If you were that secure in your beliefs you would not have to add to what is written, the fact you do says much



Jn 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Are you getting desperate Red?


So Jesus is asked a question of Philip ...

Jn 14:8,9 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.
9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

I have previously answered this



Hello, are you listening, can you hear what the Lord is telling Philip? Can you hear what the Spirit is saying here in the written word that always testifies of the truth?

Philip, IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER, Did you hear me, are you listening Philip? HOW CAN YOU SAY THEN, SHOW US THE FATHER? In other words Jesus could have answered, YOUR LOOKING AT HIM.

LBG, Are you angry that Jesus Christ made Himself equal with His Father when He answered Philip's question? Jesus, the only begotten God and true God and eternal life. That just gets me all excited and I want to jump up and down and praise the only begotten God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who was and is and is to come (Rev 1:5-8)...

Your words show who the truly angry person is in their heart

The Father is greater than I

John 14:28


5 And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who ever loves us and has once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,
6 And formed us into a kingdom (a royal race), priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the power and the majesty and the dominion throughout the ages and forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so [must it be]. Amen (so be it).
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord God, He Who is and Who was and Who is to come, the Almighty (the Ruler of all).

1Tim 1:15-17
15 The saying is sure and true and worthy of full and universal acceptance, that Christ Jesus (the Messiah) came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost.
16 But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
17 Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever (to the ages of ages). Amen (so be it).

If you want to go one step further, Jesus said He was in the Father and the Father was in Him, then we are in Christ and Christ is in us and we are his with Christ in God. I won't get into that but it is an awfully secure place to be as a sinner saved by grace, don't you think?

Now let us turn to DIRECT scripture as written on this subject, and not use your human interpretation

I will ask you a FOURTH TIME. Was Christ telling the truth when he prayed to his Father in John 17:3

That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

Will you stand on the plain words of Christ Red? Or will you follow your man made interpretation of scripture that does not state explicitly what you want it to?

As thus far you have not/will not endorse the words of Christ publically I have to ask myself why you won't.

There isn't any point in me quoting scripture again to you is there, you have no answer to it so do not reply, simply come back with scripture of your own and give me human intrerpretation of it.

I will tell you how to REALLY understand the truth of scripture. It is not by learning the literal words of the Bible insdide it, no the Pharisees did that but didn't recognise who Chrost was or even know his Father

The way to truly understand the heart of scripture is found in John 7:18

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself, BUT HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOUR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM is a man of truth and there is nothing false about him

Such a person will understand the TRUTH of the word of God, for God will show them the truth because they love God with all their heart

Do not rely on knowing the literal word inside out. Make sure you are serving God for His glory alone, then you will know all you need to know and be a true light to others

 

[Red33]

LBG, perhaps you would like to explain what Jesus Christ meant when He referred to the Father being greater in (Jn 14:28).

I put the scriptures verbatim, right in front of your nose and they speak and witness as the testimony of the truth concerning Christ and you try to discredit them by accusing me of man-made interpretation. There is not much a person can do when someone just ignores the testimony of the Scriptures to parade their own contrived understanding. To say that Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh is to be anti-christ concerning who He really was as the Son of God and the Son of man. It also discredits the One who had sent Him. Those verses of scripture are difficult for you because you do not know and understand the relationship that the Son had with the Father.

 

[livingbygrace]

LBG, perhaps you would like to explain what Jesus Christ meant when He referred to the Father being greater in (Jn 14:28).

It is simple. According to Christ there is only one true God, the Father. But you seem to have difficulty in accepting that.

So will you amswer a simple question?
Was Christ telling the truth when he prayed to His Father and said the Father was the only true God?
Why can you not answer this?
Anyone who was secure in their Biblical knowledge would I am sure




I put the scriptures verbatim, right in front of your nose and they speak and witness as the testimony of the truth concerning Christ and you try to discredit them by accusing me of man-made interpretation. There is not much a person can do when someone just ignores the testimony of the Scriptures to parade their own contrived understanding. To say that Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh is to be anti-christ concerning who He really was as the Son of God and the Son of man. It also discredits the One who had sent Him. Those verses of scripture are difficult for you because you do not know and understand the relationship that the Son had with the Father.

Red

Just produce ONE scripture from the new Testament where it is PLAINLY written

CHRIST IS GOD HIMSELF

I can produce plain scripture that says Christ is not the one true God, why can you produce no plain scripture to say he is

You are on very shaky ground

Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE that they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT

So according to Christ that is eternal life, knowing the Father(THE ONLY TRUE GOD) and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.

But that belief to you is antichrist for you do not accept that the Father is the one true God do you

For you follow weak, man made beliefs and you belong to a church that does not regularly see signs, wonders and miracles and BIBLICALLY these confirm the TRUE message being preached.

I tire of this discussion. You will never listen and always put your hands over your ears when the truth of scripture is given to you, for you cannot see the truth

 

[Red33]

Red

Just produce ONE scripture from the new Testament where it is PLAINLY written

CHRIST IS GOD HIMSELF

I can produce plain scripture that says Christ is not the one true God, why can you produce no plain scripture to say he is

You are on very shaky ground

Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE that they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT

So according to Christ that is eternal life, knowing the Father(THE ONLY TRUE GOD) and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.

But that belief to you is antichrist for you do not accept that the Father is the one true God do you

For you follow weak, man made beliefs and you belong to a church that does not regularly see signs, wonders and miracles and BIBLICALLY these confirm the TRUE message being preached.

I tire of this discussion. You will never listen and always put your hands over your ears when the truth of scripture is given to you, for you cannot see the truth

You must be joking or you are blinded by your own conceits (Rom 12:16).

 

[livingbygrace]

You must be joking or you are blinded by your own conceits (Rom 12:16).

As usual no answer to the questions put before you.

 

[VW]

It might be good to have the entire verse from John 17:3

"Father, the hour has come; glorify Thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee, even as Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent."

Jesus is praying to His Father, God. And here we see the definition of eternal life as Jesus gives it; that we may know God, the Father, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent. If we would understand grace, and eternal life, and the purpose of Jesus and even our purpose in coming to God, then we need to understand what Jesus meant here.

In Christ,

 

[livingbygrace]

It might be good to have the entire verse from John 17:3

"Father, the hour has come; glorify Thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee, even as Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent."

Jesus is praying to His Father, God. And here we see the definition of eternal life as Jesus gives it; that we may know God, the Father, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent. If we would understand grace, and eternal life, and the purpose of Jesus and even our purpose in coming to God, then we need to understand what Jesus meant here.

In Christ,

Hi VW

IMO the mistake that is made here is a simple one. The Father is in Christ, yes, but that does not make the son the Father and as you quote, the Father is the one true God

But because the Father is in the son you could say in bodily form(as at Christ's baptism the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form) if the son is glorified so is the Father.

The Father is in the son via the Spirit.

Christ said that it was the Father doing His work in him, and to believe the Father was in the son on the evidence of the miracles.
The miracles were by the power of the Holy Spirit as Christ Himself acknowledged. Thereofre it is through the spirit the Father is in the son.

I read a comment once where someone said that anyone who believed they understood the Trinity showed how little they knew of it. Though many would say I could not believe in the Trinity that made much sense to me. We as humans will never fully understand the exact workings of Father, Son and Holy Spirit I honestly believe it is beyond our finite minds, but we do like to try!

I see Father son and Holy Spirit, the Spirit exhibits in the son in its fulness. but again must this make Christ God Himself? According to the rational intellectual mind I guess it would, but against that we have clear scripture, which will we choose to believe?
The Father loves the son. If the son was God Himself God would in effect be loving himself. I cannot see that scripture points to this
But, the fulness of the Godhead bodily rests in Christ, and he has the very nature of his Father.
So if the son is glorified so is the Father, and the work of the Father is done through the son via the Spirit

btw

This to me is how the Father and son are one, by the Spirit. They are of one heart and mind in the Spirit

Christ prayed that we the believers may be one AS he and his Father are one

The only way we as believers can be one is of one heart and one mind in the Spirit

 

[VW]

I see Jesus as God, but not as the Father, just as I see the Holy Spirit as God, but again, not the Father.

But what I find really telling in this verse is that Jesus uses it to define eternal life.

In Christ,
vic

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You must be joking or you are blinded by your own conceits (Rom 12:16).

Wow, don't we have enough thread' open where this is being discussed? The topic of this thread has eternal consequences. why do we have to drag that in here?

 

[livingbygrace]

I see Jesus as God, but not as the Father, just as I see the Holy Spirit as God, but again, not the Father.

But what I find really telling in this verse is that Jesus uses it to define eternal life.

In Christ,
vic

Yes

Christ defined eternal life as knowing the Father, the one true God and also beliving in him, the son of God

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life
For God dids not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already becasue he has not believed in the name of God's one and only sin

John 3:16-18


Christ was consistent, if we believe he is the son of God we have eternal life on that basis, and believe in the Father, the one true God

Man can theologise all he wishes to but the requirement for eternal life is plain and man has no authority to override what Christ said was the requirement

John plainly said this in 1 John 4:15

 

[Zilla64007]

Then scripture states plain and clear you were never saved, For if you were saved, you would never have departed

Once again, Try learning what Grace is, and stop believing we are licentious. who are the people you are speaking to.

Paul said I HAVE been justified. I HAVE eternal life. I never read where any one says we MIGHT be justified or Might Have eternal life. which is what Non OSAS people believe. The cross of Christ is removed.

I know what grace is... it is from God's Grace that i am saved, but it does not stop at grace. there's more to it than just grace... He wants us to press into living a holy life for Him

now see, this cant be true, for those people in the Church of Smyrna will be genuine Christians (remember, they have no rebuke), and unfortunately, in the end, some will choose to turn away from God. God will never turn away from them, but they can turn away from Him... there's a big difference. As Christians, we still have free will to do as we please. We still have the choice to do right and wrong, sin or not- it's all in our hands. Adam and Eve had a choice to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or not, and unfortunately they did.

If God forced anything on us, even salvation, it is no longer out of love.
that's a major point of His love: He lets us make up our own minds. We are not mindless drones... we have free will. we chose to repent, get baptized and live in obedience, and it is still our choice to live that life. Romans 6 lays it out beautifully when i read it... not to mention Romans 11, how we are grafted in. we are not to think so highly of ourselves, because we can be torn off just as easily as we were put in.
Paul encourages us to stop sinning and live a life of holiness, not continue sinning because once we're saved we're always saved. God would not tell the 7 churches to overcome if they were OSAS.

this "once saved always saved" doctrine is very antinomian in its approach. from an historical perspective, OSAS was introduced into the church by Augustine when he debated against Pelagius, who was later confirmed that what Pelagius taught was indeed Orthodox, and mind you, eternal security was not the only thing Augustine invented... Augustine is not only the father of Calvinism, but Roman Catholicism as well.

I'm not a Calvinist nor an Arminian, but I will not sit here and tell a Christian "you can sin all you want, because no matter what you do, you're always going to be saved", because that is completely not true... and I am not going to believe in a doctrine just because it's popular, and everyone else teaches it.

 

[Zilla64007]

Once you get saved does that mean your always saved ? I ask myself sometimes like Am i evil or do I belong to god or will I even go to heaven.Then on top of that I get these thoughts that tell me why be gods slave.Its really crazy.I don't know how to deal with this.I get shots from all angles ? If I got saved at a young age then walked away.Then came back and started giving effort.Like not doing what I used to do.going to church 3 or 4days a week.Not listening to degrading music.Praying to god.Getting on my knees crying out for help.I did all this at one point.Does this mean that god was working inside of me at one point ?

okay...
from what I'm reading and hearing, there's a lot of doubt coming from you. as a brother, that concerns me. While i believe in conditional security, however putting all doctrine and theology aside, i want to encourage you to not listen to the doubts that are running through your mind.

the first thing that Satan ever did to eve was ask a question (Genesis 3:1) "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?"... he put doubt into her mind, leading her to doubt God and His Word. The questions that you say you ask yourself is making you question your identity in Christ... If you have made the decision in your heart to repent and follow Him out of faith and love, you DO belong to God... you are the apple of His Eye. You are dearly loved.

You say you get crazy thoughts that say "why be God's slave?"... i tel you know in all love: you are not a "slave", as we understand the term "slavery" today... remember, the Israelites were slaves and oppressed by the Pharaoh, and Yahweh sent Moses to deliver them from their slavery, so we know from that example that God does not see us nor treats us in that fashion.
We are bond servants of Christ. the term "bond servant" can be considered "slave", but is not what we see it as a slave. For example, a young boy is broke, has nowhere to sleep or eat. He approaches a shop vendor, and arranges a contract... the boy will work for the shop vendor, and the shop vendor will provide everything that boy needs to survive: food, clothing, housing, water, bedding. this was very common when Christ walked the earth, and it is true to how our life with Christ is today: We give our lives to Him, and we do the will of the Father, while He provides everything we will ever need.

what you're going through is normal... i can definitely say that at some point in all of our lives, im sure we have all had some of those thoughts run through our mind once or twice. I know I have in my past. The thing is, God works through everyone in some form or manner... even through those who aren't saved. Does that mean they are saved? no, however, God can work through ANYTHING... even a rock... to show the love He has for us. it sounds like you're convicted as well, which is a very good thing... at this point, i lovingly encourage you to get back into prayer, read His Word again, and go back to church. Remember, draw close to God, and He will draw close to you, and if that means crying out to Him, wailing, weeping, then so be it... there's nothing wrong with it, and dont let anyone say otherwise, because James encourages it. Christ sees true repentance, and restores us... He helps us get back up, and start again, fresh, new... it's not overnight. everyone stumbles. No one is perfect. I'm not perfect. Only Christ is, and I thank God that He has given us an advocate for when we sin.

in all honesty, in my heart, i dont think this is about once saved always saved... you're getting hit with spiritual warfare, and you're looking for answers for those questions that have been running through your mind, because it's making you doubt His love for you... i will try to answer them with scripture:

You are not evil. You are a child of light, not darkness (1 Thess. 5:5)
You belong to God (1 Corinthians 6:20)
You are a citizen of Heaven (Philippians 3:20)
You are not a slave. You are FREE. (John 8:36)

I rebuke those thoughts of doubt in the Name of Jesus.
Stand firm in these truths of scripture, and know that Christ fights for you, and will help you in all trials of life.
I hope and pray this has helped you

 

[Consumed]

Are you a Catholic, Consumed, or do you have other reasons for sporting the flag of the Holy See?

its there for the peace and unity, GOD is my flag (banner) , the cross. No im not catholic, "christened" orthodox in my youth, come to learn that God is not denominational but relational

 

[ChosenByGod]

I believe that once saved always saved. IT would make God out to be a liar if he took that gift from us. It would be like giving candy to a little kids then teasing ans snatching it back or saying nope, just kidding. I'm glad that I have a God that Fully saves.

 

[Zilla64007]

come to learn that God is not denominational but relational

i've slowly come to realize that too in my own life... which is one of the big reasons why i dont believe in OSAS

 

[Red33]

I see Jesus as God, but not as the Father, just as I see the Holy Spirit as God, but again, not the Father.

But what I find really telling in this verse is that Jesus uses it to define eternal life.

In Christ,
vic

This really is the wrong thread for this topic, but it happens. However, there is a passage that confirms OSAS.

According to your answer to LBG you have stated that all three are God but have made no connection to there being only one God. In your understanding is the Son of God just as almighty as God the Father? Within the divinity of the Godhead there are three distinct persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) they reveal one God, just as there are three distinct parts that make up one man (spirit, soul, body). Instead of trying not to offend your brother LBG, tell it right out without any compromise, is Jesus Christ the living almighty God, the Creator of all things, the Alpha and the Omega, the One that is worshipped in heaven, that left heaven and came to earth, was born and manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory (1Tim 3:16)? Was Jesus Christ God in the flesh? Don't tell me that He was separate from the Father because I already know that.

Did Jesus Christ come to reveal the Father? What did Jesus mean when Philip asked Him to show the Father? Can you explain this passage?

Jn 14:7-9 NASB
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." (could this be one and the same)
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (could this be that Christ is the expressed image of the Father's person - Heb 1:3)


Jn 10:27-36 NASB
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one." (could this be one and the same)
31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

VW, you claim to know Christ and to hear His voice, what was He talking about in the above passage in (Jn 10)? If you have the Holy Spirit of truth, he should show you what these things mean.

 

[livingbygrace]

This really is the wrong thread for this topic, but it happens. However, there is a passage that confirms OSAS.

According to your answer to LBG you have stated that all three are God but have made no connection to there being only one God. In your understanding is the Son of God just as almighty as God the Father? Within the divinity of the Godhead there are three distinct persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) they reveal one God, just as there are three distinct parts that make up one man (spirit, soul, body). Instead of trying not to offend your brother LBG, tell it right out without any compromise, is Jesus Christ the living almighty God, the Creator of all things, the Alpha and the Omega, the One that is worshipped in heaven, that left heaven and came to earth, was born and manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory (1Tim 3:16)? Was Jesus Christ God in the flesh? Don't tell me that He was separate from the Father because I already know that.

Did Jesus Christ come to reveal the Father? What did Jesus mean when Philip asked Him to show the Father? Can you explain this passage?

Jn 14:7-9 NASB
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." (could this be one and the same)
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (could this be that Christ is the expressed image of the Father's person - Heb 1:3)

I know this is addressed to VW but I have already answered this. If Philip saw Christ he saw the Father because the son diod the works of the Father and spoke the words of the Father, and reflected who the Father is in love, mercy and compassion etc

Jn 10:27-36 NASB
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I give you credit for stating what Jesus said

The Father is greater than all


30 I and the Father are one." (could this be one and the same)

Thank you for quoting this

Jesus said whern prayiong to his Father

That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one

So Red. How can we the believers be one, for according tlo Christ that is how he and his Father are one

We cannot be one person, but we CAN be of one heart and one mind in the Spirit

That they may be one AS we are one





31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?


So Christ corrected them when they said he was calling himself God, he was the son of the one true God
VW, you claim to know Christ and to hear His voice, what was He talking about in the above passage in (Jn 10)? If you have the Holy Spirit of truth, he should show you what these things mean.

Answers above

 

[livingbygrace]

I will ask you for a FIfTH TIME Red

As you say, Jesus is not the Father. Do you believe Christ was speaking the truth when he prayed to his Father?

That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

Will you publically endorse your saviours words as being the truth?
Do not hide your beliefs behind a bushel, have the courage to answer