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C

Consumed

Guest
#241
#241
Gal 5

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.24And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

All about His love in us doing what we cant, all about us coming to Him daily to receive​
 
VW

VW

Banned
#242
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#242
stone said:
D bible says he that is born of God has no conscience of sin
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No, that is did not say. It did say that our conscience is washed from the stain of sin. The reason for this washing of our conscience is so we can fellowship with God freely.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#243
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#243
stone said:
When u receive d Holy Ghost. That is Eternal salvation
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It certainly is. This is why blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life nor in the next life.
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#244
#244
VW said:
Do you have the Holy Spirit? Does He not reveal to you the truth?

In Christ,
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i remember when the Lord showed me the Trinity....I was first clueless of understanding the Trinity and then this thought random thought burst explainig it to me, it was incredible...i even had a visual of it somewhat.....:)

now i am a believer, Praise the Lord
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#245
#245
Zilla64007 said:
i've slowly come to realize that too in my own life... which is one of the big reasons why i dont believe in OSAS
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Relational:

Is God a master, or a loving father?

1. A Slave: A master gives his slave a set of rules, and demands these be followed, or else severe punishment will be the result. A slave is never a son, A slave has no access to the masters inheritance. A slave, if he obeys his master, receives no reward, It is his duty and obligation to Obey.

2. A Child: A loving father gives his children guidelines on how to live, He warns his children of things which will harm them, And warns that doing these things are dangerous. A loving father chastens (trains) his child when they step out of line in an attempt to let the child know he is doing wrong. A child has access to his fathers inheritance. A child receives reward when he does good, For his father loves him, A child remains the fathers son forever.

A relational God is the God who is a loving father, and he loves his children unconditionally (grace)

A legalistic God is a God that is a master, not a father, and has slaves, not children. And a slaves love from his master is conditional.


 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#246
#246
Crazy4GODword said:
i remember when the Lord showed me the Trinity....I was first clueless of understanding the Trinity and then this thought random thought burst explainig it to me, it was incredible...i even had a visual of it somewhat.....:)

now i am a believer, Praise the Lord
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But of course i prayed for it:)

God bless
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#247
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#247
VW said:
And now you are thinking that I did not answer you right, because I said nothing about Jesus showing the Father to His disciples. But you do not understand as you should, because even as Jesus showed the Father, so we are to show Jesus to the world. We do this in only one way, and no other way. By the working of the Holy Spirit through us, period.
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I do understand but you do not believe the scriptures and you will continue to wrestle with them to your own destruction. It has happened with others and God will make it happen with those that do not believe. It's your problem of unbelief not mine. I believe the scriptures that teach when Christ came into the world it was almighty God that had came in the flesh and dwelt among men and they beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father (Jn 1:14). God became a man to shed His blood to put away sin and not impute their trespasses unto them. If any do not believe and deny that God became a man in the person of His Son to live through Him (1Jn 4:9) they are not only in unbelief concerning the Son but also the Father and that is the spirit of antichrist.

1Jn 2:22-24
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

John writes this to let them know that you can't have the Father without the Son nor the Son without the Father. He is not making a difference between the Father and the Son but is saying that they are one and you can't believe or have one without the other. If you believe on me then you have believed on the Father also. If you have seen me you have seen the Father also and you have never seen the Father without the Son because they are one and they are the same. To say that the Son is not equal to the Father is to say that the Son was not begotten of the Father because the Father sent the Son to reveal Himself and live through the Son (1Jn 4:9). If any make the Son not equal to the Father they are denying that God came in the flesh and that is antichrist.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#248
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#248
Red33 said:
I do understand but you do not believe the scriptures and you will continue to wrestle with them to your own destruction. It has happened with others and God will make it happen with those that do not believe. It's your problem of unbelief not mine. I believe the scriptures that teach when Christ came into the world it was almighty God that had came in the flesh and dwelt among men and they beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father (Jn 1:14). God became a man to shed His blood to put away sin and not impute their trespasses unto them. If any do not believe and deny that God became a man in the person of His Son to live through Him (1Jn 4:9) they are not only in unbelief concerning the Son but also the Father and that is the spirit of antichrist.

1Jn 2:22-24
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

John writes this to let them know that you can't have the Father without the Son nor the Son without the Father. He is not making a difference between the Father and the Son but is saying that they are one and you can't believe or have one without the other. If you believe on me then you have believed on the Father also. If you have seen me you have seen the Father also and you have never seen the Father without the Son because they are one and they are the same. To say that the Son is not equal to the Father is to say that the Son was not begotten of the Father because the Father sent the Son to reveal Himself and live through the Son (1Jn 4:9). If any make the Son not equal to the Father they are denying that God came in the flesh and that is antichrist.
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What sin do you convict me of?

Why do you call me of antichrist?

I have not in any way denied that Jesus is the Christ.

God forgive you.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#249
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
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#249
VW said:
I show Jesus to those He sends me to.

Why do you judge me?

What evil do you convict me of?
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God sends us and has told us TO GO into ALL THE WORLD and when we go He will go with us unto the uttermost parts of the earth. Christ had no problem with the works that He did and showed them to all, but you have a problem making your works known to just a few. Are you ashamed of those works or do they speak to what is being neglected.

What you and LBG deny is that Jesus Christ was almighty God in the flesh. You have said that over and over and when you do you are denying the Father and the Son. Either Christ was almighty God in the flesh when He was here or He was not. If you or any say no, then that is the spirit of anichrist. When you first believed upon Christ, He was God in the flesh who died and shed His blood and He has not changed and He will be the same to all that believe. Those that believe upon the Son believe also upon the Father that sent Him, because they are one and they are the same.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#250
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#250
Red33 said:
God sends us and has told us TO GO into ALL THE WORLD and when we go He will go with us unto the uttermost parts of the earth. Christ had no problem with the works that He did and showed them to all, but you have a problem making your works known to just a few. Are you ashamed of those works or do they speak to what is being neglected.

What you and LBG deny is that Jesus Christ was almighty God in the flesh. You have said that over and over and when you do you are denying the Father and the Son. Either Christ was almighty God in the flesh when He was here or He was not. If you or any say no, then that is the spirit of anichrist. When you first believed upon Christ, He was God in the flesh who died and shed His blood and He has not changed and He will be the same to all that believe. Those that believe upon the Son believe also upon the Father that sent Him, because they are one and they are the same.
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Jesus told you that huh? But you do not hear His voice, because it is too subjective.

WE HAVE NOT DENIED THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST! You are adding to scripture, making it fit your beliefs. Let me quote it for you, word for word.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Now, where in this passage, or any other passage, does it say that if one does not believe that Jesus is the Father that they are of the spirit of antichrist? How are you going to make it say that? Jesus came in the flesh. Do you hear that? This I know with all that I am, and confess this to the whole world and under heaven in all of the angels hearing and in God's hearing.

Call me antichrist again, and it is on your own head.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#251
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#251
VW said:
Jesus told you that huh? But you do not hear His voice, because it is too subjective.

WE HAVE NOT DENIED THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST! You are adding to scripture, making it fit your beliefs. Let me quote it for you, word for word.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Now, where in this passage, or any other passage, does it say that if one does not believe that Jesus is the Father that they are of the spirit of antichrist? How are you going to make it say that? Jesus came in the flesh. Do you hear that? This I know with all that I am, and confess this to the whole world and under heaven in all of the angels hearing and in God's hearing.

Call me antichrist again, and it is on your own head.
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If anyonme acknowledges Jesus is the SON OF GOD, God lives in him and he in God

1 John 4:15

Red is adding to scripture, that is the ONLY WAY he can justify what he is saying

John is clear(as was Christ) as to the requirement for eternal life. It is not what Red is saying. He is speaking for himself and those he follows, not following the plain words of Christ and John
And he says those who do simply follow the requirements of Christ and John are possessed by the spirit of antichrist. But there will come a day when he will be answereable for condemning people for standing on the plain words of scripture
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#252
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#252
hey, eternally-gratefull...
since i dont believe in OSAS, does that make me unsaved?

all i hear from you right now is an accusing spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#253
#253
Zilla64007 said:
hey, eternally-gratefull...
since i dont believe in OSAS, does that make me unsaved?

all i hear from you right now is an accusing spirit.
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Why Zilla? Because I question what you belief? Is this not what a discussion is all about?

You all have stated something that you believe OSAS believers believe, even though I believe non of the things you state. So can you not see my frustration when I try to share my faith. The people continually say things like "I can not believe in OSAS, because OSAS teaches this" Yet I do not teach what you claim I, As an OSAS believer teach.

Don't you think the accusations people make against my faith, which are untrue, should be discussed?

Again. Yes some OSAS teachers teach the things you say they believe in. Yet I am fighting their belief also. Should we not come on the same page, since we both disagree with the same things? and then see where our common ground is, then see where we differ. Instead of some saying I believe or teach this, When in fact I do not. And thus no discussion can be had.

As for what I think your status is with God. that is not for me to decide. That is up to God.

I would just like to get the lies which are believed about my faith straightened out so we can actually discuss something.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#254
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#254
VW said:
Jesus told you that huh? But you do not hear His voice, because it is too subjective.

WE HAVE NOT DENIED THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST! You are adding to scripture, making it fit your beliefs. Let me quote it for you, word for word.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Now, where in this passage, or any other passage, does it say that if one does not believe that Jesus is the Father that they are of the spirit of antichrist? How are you going to make it say that? Jesus came in the flesh. Do you hear that? This I know with all that I am, and confess this to the whole world and under heaven in all of the angels hearing and in God's hearing.

Call me antichrist again, and it is on your own head.
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1- Did Almighty God become a man and incarnate Himself by becoming flesh through the person of His Son? If no, then explain

2- Other than being the only begotten Son of God and taking on a body of humiliation, in what way is the Father greater than the Son?
 
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Zilla64007

Banned
#255
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#255
e-g, im fine with you questioning what i believe- its when you try to show off is when i start to get defensive.

you can sit here and scream "grace" all you want, but the truth of the matter is, not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will go into heaven.
i can back up what i believe not only with scripture, but i can also authenticate its accuracy through church history. CF Stanley, one of your largest supporters, even admits that the early church- Irenaeus, Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch- did not teach eternal security in any form.

the ppl i mentioned are all descendants for the teaching of the apostle john... besides the bible, i put credibility in what they say, because they had something no one else has ever had: oral tradition. can you say your teacher was the apostle john? polycarp & ignatius can.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#256
#256
Zilla64007 said:
e-g, im fine with you questioning what i believe- its when you try to show off is when i start to get defensive.

you can sit here and scream "grace" all you want, but the truth of the matter is, not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will go into heaven.
i can back up what i believe not only with scripture, but i can also authenticate its accuracy through church history. CF Stanley, one of your largest supporters, even admits that the early church- Irenaeus, Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch- did not teach eternal security in any form.

the ppl i mentioned are all descendants for the teaching of the apostle john... besides the bible, i put credibility in what they say, because they had something no one else has ever had: oral tradition. can you say your teacher was the apostle john? polycarp & ignatius can.
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Wow!. So let me get this straight.

1. You want to continue to think I believe something which is not true.

2. You have no desire to see what it really is I do believe.

3. When I try to show you what I believe, I am not sharing my faith. I am (showing off)

I am more than confused.

Your right, not everyone who says "lord lord" will get to heaven. In fact what Does Jesus say when he is done telling them why? "Depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU"

Now let me ask you a question. How can Jesus say he NEVER knew someone who at one time was saved. For is it not true that when we are saved, we are known by God as his children? Even if we could lose it. One time we were Gods child. Yet Christ says. HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

as for CF Stanley? Again I ask a few questions

1. Was I alive when this man was alive?

2. Since you state I believe things which I do not believe. Is this not you assuming you know thinking I am following this man

As for history. History has a history of being wrong. Since the time of man.

Do you not know that he who rules writes history? If Hitler won WW2 History books would have shown him as the savior, and america and Briton the evil empire.

Did not Rome rule the world for over a 1000 years? How can we believe history written by those in power. Would we expect to find anything against them? In fact History shows they murdered and or jailed anyone who did not believe as they did. So how can we know any one who was jailed or killed did not believe as I do. We can't for it would have been removed from history.

As for can I say someone was a student of the Apostle John 2000 years ago? No I can't. Because God did not see fit to put this in his word. So all we have is hearsay.

However. God was gracious enough to have John put his words in writing so we can all be students of the apostle john.

Again I ask. Why are you afraid to see what I really believe, and only wish to continue to think I believe something I do not?
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#257
#257
hey why apologetics here, it is like apostasy, maybe it is.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#258
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#258
Red33 said:
1- Did Almighty God become a man and incarnate Himself by becoming flesh through the person of His Son? If no, then explain

2- Other than being the only begotten Son of God and taking on a body of humiliation, in what way is the Father greater than the Son?
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That does not work Red. You called me and livingbygrace of the spirit of antichrist, and you did not retract that. You based that judgment upon a false reading of John's letter. Now you are backing out, without a retraction or an apology. You know what we believe about Jesus, we have stated it several times.

This stands to your account.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#259
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#259
VW said:
That does not work Red. You called me and livingbygrace of the spirit of antichrist, and you did not retract that. You based that judgment upon a false reading of John's letter. Now you are backing out, without a retraction or an apology. You know what we believe about Jesus, we have stated it several times.

This stands to your account.
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If you do not want to give a definitive answer that is your prerogative and it has nothing to do with me but everything to do with what you believe. I am not retracting a thing and to clarify for others, if any believe anything, concerning Christ, that is contrary to God becoming a man through the flesh in the person of His Son, that is the spirit of antichrist.

VW, if you or LBG continue to believe that God did not manifest Himself by becoming a man through the incarnation of His Son, then that is the spirit of antichrist. If Christ was anything less than His Father when He became the God-man, He would have been disqualified from being able to reveal the Father and become the perfect and sinless sacrifice for the sins of all men.

This is what many believe because this is what the scriptures teach, and God has imputed that on their account for righteousness. That is the goodness of God.

The Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father, but they are one and they are the same. If you believe the written word and have the Spirit that is not hard to understand, it's quite simple and very holy.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#260
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#260
Red33 said:
If you do not want to give a definitive answer that is your prerogative and it has nothing to do with me but everything to do with what you believe. I am not retracting a thing and to clarify for others, if any believe anything, concerning Christ, that is contrary to God becoming a man through the flesh in the person of His Son, that is the spirit of antichrist.

VW, if you or LBG continue to believe that God did not manifest Himself by becoming a man through the incarnation of His Son, then that is the spirit of antichrist. If Christ was anything less than His Father when He became the God-man, He would have been disqualified from being able to reveal the Father and become the perfect and sinless sacrifice for the sins of all men.

This is what many believe because this is what the scriptures teach, and God has imputed that on their account for righteousness. That is the goodness of God.

The Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father, but they are one and they are the same. If you believe the written word and have the Spirit that is not hard to understand, it's quite simple and very holy.
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You have a very strange way of reading, and of justifying yourself. I have never said, anywhere, that Jesus is not God. What I did say is that Jesus is not the Father, never was the Father, never will be the Father. You are the one who has made this assertion. And now you are refuting that!
Those that believe upon the Son believe also upon the Father that sent Him, because they are one and they are the same.
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You have absolutely no reason, justifiable or not, to attribute to me the spirit of antichrist, and I find it very very offensive. I am amazed that you have not been censured for this. (????) In fact, your assertion that Jesus is the Father because He said that His Father and Himself are one, is heresy.

You know not Jesus, nor the Father. You have not the love of God in you.
 
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