Once saved always saved ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#281
#281
Zilla64007 said:
and yet even Paul says he upholds the law... VW, without law, there is nothing but lawlessness. His law is still in place.
the Mosaic Law, no, that was fulfilled, but His commandments are still in effect.
Click to expand...
Yes he did. Paul warns strongly about the belief that grace gives us the freedom to sin. Gods commands are still in effect. And they still do the job they were intended to do (as far as eternity goes) prove to us all we are guilty under the law, and rightly condemned without the saving grace of Christ on the cross.

Jesus said all the commands can be brought down to one. Love

If you love your wife, you will not cheat on her.

if you love your parents, you will not dishonor them.

If you love your neighbor, you will not covet what he has, But praise God for blessing him.

Again, I will not teach, nor will I ever teach that Grace is a freedom to sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#282
#282
Consumed said:
in romans Paul puts the law into perspective to the grace we have been given,

me again
Click to expand...
"Oh what a wretched man I am. who will free me from this body of sin" COme quickly Lord, Please come quickly!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#283
#283
Zilla64007 said:
and yet even Paul says he upholds the law... VW, without law, there is nothing but lawlessness. His law is still in place.
the Mosaic Law, no, that was fulfilled, but His commandments are still in effect.
Click to expand...

we walk in the covenant made with abraham, was he under law?? blessed, grace abounded. first thing God said to abrahm, get up amd go from your land and kin, he took them all with him, having a child with sarah, instead listens to sarah and sleeps with hagar, yet His mercy and grace covered him. When moses led the people out of eygpt, law then?? Mercy and Grace upheld them, they murmured, complained and whined til they said, "you go up the montain whatever He says tell us we will do " and build a golden calf.... they saw God be mighty days past, forgot quickly. So the yroamed the desert for 40yrs, He still clothed and fed them, grace even then but they would never enter into His rest for their unbelief

as if they could do anything themselves without God

the law is for the lawless
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#284
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#284
Consumed said:
we walk in the covenant made with abraham, was he under law?? blessed, grace abounded. first thing God said to abrahm, get up amd go from your land and kin, he took them all with him, having a child with sarah, instead listens to sarah and sleeps with hagar, yet His mercy and grace covered him. When moses led the people out of eygpt, law then?? Mercy and Grace upheld them, they murmured, complained and whined til they said, "you go up the montain whatever He says tell us we will do " and build a golden calf.... they saw God be mighty days past, forgot quickly. So the yroamed the desert for 40yrs, He still clothed and fed them, grace even then but they would never enter into His rest for their unbelief

as if they could do anything themselves without God

the law is for the lawless
Click to expand...
the law is there for both, consumed... while the Law is there to condemn the lost, the Law is also there to convict those who sin

Romans 7:16-22
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#285
#285
Jesus made a good point about Himself and John the baptist, how the religious view things, John lived a solitare life, they said he was evil led, Jesus went and drank and ate with sinners, they said he was evil led. Cant win
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#286
#286
Zilla64007 said:
the law is there for both, consumed... while the Law is there to condemn the lost, the Law is also there to convict those who sin
Click to expand...

Yes! And as long as we are convicted. We know we need a savior and would never consider ourselves good enough, or righteousness to earn Gods grace. Thus never becoming a pharisee. But remaining humble servants of Christ.

Which was the purpose of the law
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#287
#287
Consumed said:
Jesus made a good point about Himself and John the baptist, how the religious view things, John lived a solitare life, they said he was evil led, Jesus went and drank and ate with sinners, they said he was evil led. Cant win
Click to expand...
Yep. And we are called licentious by the legalist. And pharisees by the licentious. Can't win.
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#288
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#288
yes, i realize that, and that's not what im explaining.
They saw the Law and followed the literal Law, & yet did not see what the Law brought: Jesus.

Abraham followed the law, but he wasnt justified by the law... it was his faith.
however, faith by itself is not enough.
faith and works is a delicate balance... thats where that intimate relationship with Christ comes in

the sanhedrin was blinded by the law. We are not. As Jesus fulfills the law, we still have to endure to the end to be saved. that will never change
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#289
#289
Zilla64007 said:
the law is there for both, consumed... while the Law is there to condemn the lost, the Law is also there to convict those who sin

Romans 7:16-22
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Click to expand...

John 16:
8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin, because they do not believe in Me:
(the world)

10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
(us convicted by His righteousness)

11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. (game set and match that choose satan against God)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#290
#290
Consumed said:
John 16:
8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin, because they do not believe in Me:
(the world)

10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
(us convicted by His righteousness)

11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. (game set and match that choose satan against God)
Click to expand...
Thus no one will have an excuse when they stand before God, There is no such thing as an athiest.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#293
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#293
VW said:
You have a very strange way of reading, and of justifying yourself. I have never said, anywhere, that Jesus is not God. What I did say is that Jesus is not the Father, never was the Father, never will be the Father. You are the one who has made this assertion. And now you are refuting that!

You have absolutely no reason, justifiable or not, to attribute to me the spirit of antichrist, and I find it very very offensive. I am amazed that you have not been censured for this. (????) In fact, your assertion that Jesus is the Father because He said that His Father and Himself are one, is heresy.

You know not Jesus, nor the Father. You have not the love of God in you.
Click to expand...
The truth is that God became a man and took on human form through the person of His Son. You and LBG cannot refute nor understand Christ's response to Philip's question in (Jn 14:8-7-10)...

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Has LBG or others convinced you that the Father was somehow greater than His Son whom He sent (Jn 14:28), the only begotten of the Father? Is there some reason that you believe that the Father was superior to His Son in majesty and in glory and in holiness? Did not Jesus leave His place in glory to dwell among men and return to His former glory (Jn 17:5)? When the The Lion of the Tribe of Judah and the Root of David took the book from the right hand of the one who sat on the throne, did that make the Father greater than His Son because He was worthy to take the book? The very reason that the Jews crucified the Son was that He made Himself equal with the Father (Jn 15:18)...

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

quote - There was not mistaking the force of Christ's declaration in (verse 17). By saying my Father....and I, He had done what, without the greatest impropriety, was impossible to any mere creature. He had done what Abraham, Moses, David and Daniel had never dreamed of doing. He had placed Himself on the same level with the Father. His traducers were quick to recognize that he had 'made Himself equal with God' (Jn 10:33, 19:7) and they were right.

No other inference could fairly be drawn from His words.And mark it attentively, the Lord Jesus did not charge them with wrestling with His language and misrepresenting His meaning. He did not protest against their construction of His words. Instead, He impressed upon them all the more His divine claims regarding His unique personality and presented the evidence upon which His claim rested (verses 20-47). He not only vindicated Himself from the charge of violating the Sabbath but also of blasphemy, in making an assertion in which by obvious implication, was a claim to equality with God. - unquote
 
VW

VW

Banned
#294
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#294
Red33 said:
The truth is that God became a man and took on human form through the person of His Son. You and LBG cannot refute nor understand Christ's response to Philip's question in (Jn 14:8-7-10)...

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Has LBG or others convinced you that the Father was somehow greater than His Son whom He sent (Jn 14:28), the only begotten of the Father? Is there some reason that you believe that the Father was superior to His Son in majesty and in glory and in holiness? Did not Jesus leave His place in glory to dwell among men and return to His former glory (Jn 17:5)? When the The Lion of the Tribe of Judah and the Root of David took the book from the right hand of the one who sat on the throne, did that make the Father greater than His Son because He was worthy to take the book? The very reason that the Jews crucified the Son was that He made Himself equal with the Father (Jn 15:18)...

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

quote - There was not mistaking the force of Christ's declaration in (verse 17). By saying my Father....and I, He had done what, without the greatest impropriety, was impossible to any mere creature. He had done what Abraham, Moses, David and Daniel had never dreamed of doing. He had placed Himself on the same level with the Father. His traducers were quick to recognize that he had 'made Himself equal with God' (Jn 10:33, 19:7) and they were right.

No other inference could fairly be drawn from His words.And mark it attentively, the Lord Jesus did not charge them with wrestling with His language and misrepresenting His meaning. He did not protest against their construction of His words. Instead, He impressed upon them all the more His divine claims regarding His unique personality and presented the evidence upon which His claim rested (verses 20-47). He not only vindicated Himself from the charge of violating the Sabbath but also of blasphemy, in making an assertion in which by obvious implication, was a claim to equality with God. - unquote
Click to expand...
You are blinded by your intelligence. "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me." Sounds like one to me. Yeah, right.

I still fear for your soul. You know not the Son nor the Father. Jesus said of His Father that He is greater than I. You would make this to mean that while the Father was in the flesh He was in some way diminished, made less. This is foolishness of the worst sort, because it does not even make sense. The Father has never been, and never will be, diminished, in any shape, form, or fashion.

It would be good for you to lay down your bible and seek God's face to meet Him. Then, at least you might loose some of your arrogance, so that He can teach you the truth.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#295
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#295
VW said:
You are blinded by your intelligence. "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me." Sounds like one to me. Yeah, right.

I still fear for your soul. You know not the Son nor the Father. Jesus said of His Father that He is greater than I. You would make this to mean that while the Father was in the flesh He was in some way diminished, made less. This is foolishness of the worst sort, because it does not even make sense. The Father has never been, and never will be, diminished, in any shape, form, or fashion.

It would be good for you to lay down your bible and seek God's face to meet Him. Then, at least you might loose some of your arrogance, so that He can teach you the truth.
Click to expand...
The simplicity of it all is that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and He came from heaven to dwell among men. I don't see a problem with the Son and the Father being equal, why do you and why does your friend LBG? When you rail against me you rail against your own understanding of the Father and the Son being equal. 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father'. The written word is as clear as crystal and does not lie.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#296
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#296
Red33 said:
The simplicity of it all is that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and He came from heaven to dwell among men. I don't see a problem with the Son and the Father being equal, why do you and why does your friend LBG? When you rail against me you rail against your own understanding of the Father and the Son being equal. 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father'. The written word is as clear as crystal and does not lie.
Click to expand...
That is not what you said. You said that they were and are the same, that the Father came and became a man. That is not the same as being equal. I have never denied their being equal. But what I do deny is that Jesus is that Father. Are you saying something different now? If so, then when are you going to retract calling me and my brother antichrists?
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#297
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#297
VW said:
That is not what you said. You said that they were and are the same, that the Father came and became a man. That is not the same as being equal. I have never denied their being equal. But what I do deny is that Jesus is that Father. Are you saying something different now? If so, then when are you going to retract calling me and my brother antichrists?
Click to expand...
'If you have seen me, you have seen the Father'. In order to say this to Philip it must be so. So for Philip to look upon the Son was also 'equally the same' as to look upon the Father. There was no difference whatsoever. The Father and the Son are the same and to see and look upon the Son was the same as looking upon the Father. The Son was the expressed imaged of the Father. You could not divide them nor could you find a difference. So when Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God the Jews reacted and accused Him with blasphemy by making Himself equal with God. Do you do the same and say that the Son is not equal with the Father and that the Father is greater than the Son? LBG does, do you?

With all that we recognize, we worship and we fellowship with the Father and the Son. Isn't that beautiful and it's all in your favorite book of John and the epistles. You should be shouting for joy over the fact that the Father and the Son are one, that they are equal and they are the same. And the Son is more than a chip off the old block.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#298
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#298
Red33 said:
'If you have seen me, you have seen the Father'. In order to say this to Philip it must be so. So for Philip to look upon the Son was also 'equally the same' as to look upon the Father. There was no difference whatsoever. The Father and the Son are the same and to see and look upon the Son was the same as looking upon the Father. The Son was the expressed imaged of the Father. You could not divide them nor could you find a difference. So when Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God the Jews reacted and accused Him with blasphemy by making Himself equal with God. Do you do the same and say that the Son is not equal with the Father and that the Father is greater than the Son? LBG does, do you?

With all that we recognize, we worship and we fellowship with the Father and the Son. Isn't that beautiful and it's all in your favorite book of John and the epistles. You should be shouting for joy over the fact that the Father and the Son are one, that they are equal and they are the same. And the Son is more than a chip off the old block.
Click to expand...
Go your own way.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#299
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#299
Zilla64007 said:
and yet even Paul says he upholds the law... VW, without law, there is nothing but lawlessness. His law is still in place.
the Mosaic Law, no, that was fulfilled, but His commandments are still in effect.
Click to expand...
If you are refering to Rom 3:31if you read the preceding nine verses you will understand what Paul meant. The law is fulfilled by a life of faith, not looking to the written law

Paul said he died to the law many times, and that he was not under law. How can he of gone back to it under those circumstances?
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#300
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#300
Red33 said:
Do you do the same and say that the Son is not equal with the Father and that the Father is greater than the Son? LBG does, do you?

.
Click to expand...
LBG believes the words Christ spoke on this earth to be the truth

The Father is greater than I John 14:28

The Father is greater than all John 10:29

That they may know you(the Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John 17:3

And if you say I have the spirit of antichrist in me for believing the plain words of Christ, I wonder what your answer will be when you stand before Christ and he askd you why you accused me of that
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.