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Jan 14, 2010
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if a righteous man turns from his righteous behavior and starts doing sinful things and acts like other sinners, should he be allowed to live?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
if a righteous man turns from his righteous behavior and starts doing sinful things and acts like other sinners, should he be allowed to live?
You mean like a son, who takes his fathers inheritance and goes out into the world? (lives like the world) Did he stop being the son? Did the Dad stop being the Father? Did the father kick him out of his family?
 
Jan 14, 2010
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Again I ask. Why are you afraid to see what I really believe, and only wish to continue to think I believe something I do not?
im not afraid... i did think like you. for all of my life. My parents taught it to me, and so did all my sunday school teachers

it was only when i started studying the bible for myself, outside of man's own interpretation & opinion, i came to believe what I know now
 
Jan 14, 2010
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You mean like a son, who takes his fathers inheritance and goes out into the world? (lives like the world) Did he stop being the son? Did the Dad stop being the Father? Did the father kick him out of his family?
answer the question: yes or no.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
answer the question: yes or no.
I did. I gave you the answer Jesus gave you. so it was not my words.

What you asked was if a prodigal son could still have life. Jesus gave you the answer.
 
Jan 14, 2010
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this has nothing to do with the prodigal son... this is in line with direct scripture, so either you answer with a "yes" or "no", otherwise im through talking with you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
im not afraid... i did think like you. for all of my life. My parents taught it to me, and so did all my sunday school teachers

it was only when i started studying the bible for myself, outside of man's own interpretation & opinion, i came to believe what I know now

You did?

Yet you say I would tell a christian they could sin all they want, which is false.

Show you used to believe as I do by showing you know what I believe, and not a false byproduct of what I believe (which is believed by many)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
this has nothing to do with the prodigal son... this is in line with direct scripture, so either you answer with a "yes" or "no", otherwise im through talking with you.
Well then I guess we are done. Because you are talking of the prodigal son. Who left his father and went to the world to live a worldly life, which is exactly the question you asked.


 
Jan 14, 2010
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actually, no its not... it's a paraphrase from scripture itself... but obviously, you dont know scripture, so it's worthless discussing this with you concerning this subject.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You know its funny. The Corinthian church were doing the exact thing you asked. Yet Paul called them brothers. He also made it clear. since they were still living in sin, and did not grow, he had to feed them milk and not meat, because they were still babes in Christ.


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
actually, no its not... it's a paraphrase from scripture itself... but obviously, you dont know scripture, so it's worthless discussing this with you concerning this subject.
Yeah, I know where you got it. You taking a passage of scripture out of context does not prove your point. Scripture must not contradict. Your placing people back under law

But thats OK. Jesus answered your question. Do you think the prodigal son went out and lived a holy life? I don't think so. .
 
C

Consumed

Guest
I did. I gave you the answer Jesus gave you. so it was not my words.

What you asked was if a prodigal son could still have life. Jesus gave you the answer.

in all honesty zilla i thought it was the correct answer to the question,
what would i know, baa baa baa thats me
lol
 
Jan 14, 2010
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in all honesty zilla i thought it was the correct answer to the question,
what would i know, baa baa baa thats me
lol
\
the paraphrase comes directly from Ezekiel 18:24. The chapter talks directly about the righteous and the unrighteous, and how God sees it

The Soul Who Sins Shall Die
1The word of the LORD came to me: 2"What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge'? 3 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
5"If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— 6if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, 7 does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord GOD.

10"If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11(though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.

14"Now suppose this man fathers a son who sees all the sins that his father has done; he sees, and does not do likewise: 15he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife, 16does not oppress anyone, exacts no pledge, commits no robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 17withholds his hand from iniquity, takes no interest or profit, obeys my rules, and walks in my statutes; he shall not die for his father’s iniquity; he shall surely live. 18As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity.

19"Yet you say, 'Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?' When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live.
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 "But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.

25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?
26 When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.
27Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life.
28Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
29Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?

30"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord GOD. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live."

God does not change.
God gave the Jews a choice in the Old Testament... we still have that same choice today.
 
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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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There is none righteous, no, not even one.

This is written in scripture. So, where is the righteous man? Have you seen him? I have not.
The prophet was talking about those who are under the Law, who live by the Law. If one who is righteous by the Law turns away and sins, he will not live, but if a sinner turns from his wicked ways and ceases to sin, he will live. Can you stop sinning?

But we are not under the Law, mainly because the Law was proven to be useless and worthless in making us righteous. It is impossible to become righteous by the works of the Law.

So, what are we to do? God provided. In believing in Jesus Christ, and in receiving the Holy Spirit, God causes us to be born again of incorruptible seed, which is His seed. We become His children. God does not have unrighteous children. Those who are unrighteous are the children of the devil.

God did away with the sinner, and brought into being a righteous child, born in the image of the Son, Jesus Christ. Beloved, now we are the children of God. It is not yet apparent what we shall become, but we know that when we see Him, we shall become just as He is. The anointing we have from Him teaches us to abide, to live in Jesus Christ. So now live in Him, so that when He appears we will not shrink away from Him in shame.

In Christ,
 
C

Consumed

Guest
Jesus having fulfilled the law left us two commandments,

Rom 8:1 "no condemnation" ring a bell, new wine(NT) is , we stumble, no need to condemn ourself, just get up and press on , not run to the nearest sheep pen take a lamb and goat, slit the lambs throat and let the goat out the back to roam the wilderness

im watchful of my salvation, i know there are requirements, to love Him and stand and fight the enemy, resist the devil He will flee yes. We have a part, we stand, the battle is not ours its His and He has won it for us already. if and whenever i stuff up i come pentinent and humble, im forgiven already i only need to come to receive it. Again though, God will not be mocked and we are not to abuse the grace given. Remember we dont have to actually do it to be classed guilty, just desire it in our heart - adultry teaching from Jesus??

Prov 3:5-6

acknowledge everything, if we cant be honest about ourselves how can we be honest before God
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Amen. I like how John described the commandments of Jesus, saying that we are to believe on Him, whim God has sent; and to love one another, even as He commanded us. These are commands. Everything else is instruction. Just as the anointing teaches us to abide in Him. Just as Jesus teaches us not to judge others.

Paul showed that if one wishes to become a teacher of the Law, that they also became a judge of the Law, and thus a judge of God. This did not make sense to me until I understood what Jesus was saying to those who taught the Law and judged Him. They taught people to do all parts of the Law, even to tithing of their dill, but they did not even keep the weightier aspects of the Law, such as charity and love.

We are born into the kingdom of heaven, and our watchwords are Faith, Hope, and Love. These three abide. But the greatest of these is love.

In Christ,
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
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There is none righteous, no, not even one.

This is written in scripture. So, where is the righteous man? Have you seen him? I have not.
The prophet was talking about those who are under the Law, who live by the Law. If one who is righteous by the Law turns away and sins, he will not live, but if a sinner turns from his wicked ways and ceases to sin, he will live. Can you stop sinning?

But we are not under the Law, mainly because the Law was proven to be useless and worthless in making us righteous. It is impossible to become righteous by the works of the Law.

So, what are we to do? God provided. In believing in Jesus Christ, and in receiving the Holy Spirit, God causes us to be born again of incorruptible seed, which is His seed. We become His children. God does not have unrighteous children. Those who are unrighteous are the children of the devil.

God did away with the sinner, and brought into being a righteous child, born in the image of the Son, Jesus Christ. Beloved, now we are the children of God. It is not yet apparent what we shall become, but we know that when we see Him, we shall become just as He is. The anointing we have from Him teaches us to abide, to live in Jesus Christ. So now live in Him, so that when He appears we will not shrink away from Him in shame.

In Christ,
VW, Christ was hidden IN the law, and fulfilled the Law, however, even Paul turned back TO the Law to prove his point. He makes this known in all of Romans.

the majority of Christianity today is EXTREMELY antinomian
 
C

Consumed

Guest
VW, Christ was hidden IN the law, and fulfilled the Law, however, even Paul turned back TO the Law to prove his point. He makes this known in all of Romans.

the majority of Christianity today is EXTREMELY antinomian
in romans Paul puts the law into perspective to the grace we have been given,

me again
 
Jan 14, 2010
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and yet even Paul says he upholds the law... VW, without law, there is nothing but lawlessness. His law is still in place.
the Mosaic Law, no, that was fulfilled, but His commandments are still in effect.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen. I like how John described the commandments of Jesus, saying that we are to believe on Him, whim God has sent; and to love one another, even as He commanded us. These are commands. Everything else is instruction. Just as the anointing teaches us to abide in Him. Just as Jesus teaches us not to judge others.

Paul showed that if one wishes to become a teacher of the Law, that they also became a judge of the Law, and thus a judge of God. This did not make sense to me until I understood what Jesus was saying to those who taught the Law and judged Him. They taught people to do all parts of the Law, even to tithing of their dill, but they did not even keep the weightier aspects of the Law, such as charity and love.

We are born into the kingdom of heaven, and our watchwords are Faith, Hope, and Love. These three abide. But the greatest of these is love.

In Christ,
This is where I think people get confused. When we think of sinners we think of drunks, adulterers and fornicators. Liars and thieves.

Yet how many times in a day does a beautiful woman walk across our paths and we think lustfull thoughts., Or does a car cut us off, we get angry. Or do we cheat on our bosses by taking time we are supposed to be making him money and talk with others. Or fail to give to someone who needs our help because we are to busy. I can think of many more examples of sin I think we all have daily.

So who is a righteous man? Christ. Who is righteous enough to gain salvation? No one. Who is guilty under the law? Everyone, until the day they die, and someone so rightly said, we become like him.

Are their people that turn and sin? Yes, I did for 5 years. 5 of the worse years of my life. Did I lose my salvation because I left? Well I was chastened quite severely. So I doubt it.

Then there are others. who either had no change in life. Or played the "christian game" for awhile and decided it was not for them, and went back to what they really trusted in, There sin. Did these people lose salvation? I do not believe so. I believe they never had it. It was a game for them. A fad. Or a "get out of jail" ticket they thought they would cash in just in case this "christianity thing" was real. In other words, they did not have faith. and their lack of work, or return to sin proved their faith was dead.