What Is The Importance Of Being Baptized With The Holy Spirit?
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Correct. But words are important, so we are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit when we believe, and also baptized BY the Spirit into the Body of Christ. Peter called it receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
There are two instance in Acts (which was showing a transitional period) where those who received the gift of the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. On the other hand the 3,000+ Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost did NOT speak in tongues. Had they done so, it would surely have been recorded.
On that day the apostles and the disciples who were in the Upper Room spoke in tongues (languages) supernaturally. About 15 languages and dialects are listed, and had the translators lived in our times, they would not have used the word *tongues*, but *languages* for glossais and dialektos.
There are two instance in Acts (which was showing a transitional period) where those who received the gift of the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. On the other hand the 3,000+ Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost did NOT speak in tongues. Had they done so, it would surely have been recorded.
On that day the apostles and the disciples who were in the Upper Room spoke in tongues (languages) supernaturally. About 15 languages and dialects are listed, and had the translators lived in our times, they would not have used the word *tongues*, but *languages* for glossais and dialektos.
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The Holy Spirit coming in us is called the anointing,
baptism is us being immersed into something (in the OT water, in the NT Christ, his death, his body, ..etc)
to anoint means something is poured into us (in the OT oil, in the NT the Holy Spirit)
people want to mix these two acts of god in a persons salvation. That’s where the confusion comes in,
baptism is us being immersed into something (in the OT water, in the NT Christ, his death, his body, ..etc)
to anoint means something is poured into us (in the OT oil, in the NT the Holy Spirit)
people want to mix these two acts of god in a persons salvation. That’s where the confusion comes in,
If a person has shared the gospel as prophecy (a new tongue) to express their new born again belief. Then they have received a unseen sign that God is working in them .The unseen witness of the Spirit .
The gospel is that which cast out demons in the name of God. The gospel in its entirety protects the believer from the poison of false doctrine. Like this idea of making a noise and falling back ward as sign of unbelief that some have named tongues..
The laying on of hands is used to indicate prayer helps to support the gospel . Together fasting, a synonym for the gospel and prayer is needed .
No outward sign gifts that confirm Christ is working in the believer. Spiritual gifts unseen, yes. Like prophesying planting the seed with our new tongue and prayer.... hoping God will bring fruit .
The believers walk by faith the eternal not seen . . not after what the eyes see the temporal
Mark 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
The gospel is that which cast out demons in the name of God. The gospel in its entirety protects the believer from the poison of false doctrine. Like this idea of making a noise and falling back ward as sign of unbelief that some have named tongues..
The laying on of hands is used to indicate prayer helps to support the gospel . Together fasting, a synonym for the gospel and prayer is needed .
No outward sign gifts that confirm Christ is working in the believer. Spiritual gifts unseen, yes. Like prophesying planting the seed with our new tongue and prayer.... hoping God will bring fruit .
The believers walk by faith the eternal not seen . . not after what the eyes see the temporal
Mark 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
I have, more than once, but here it is again. First, the relevant bits of your earlier post:
The foundation of tongues, as you call it, is Isaiah 28:11-13:
"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”; and, “This is the place of repose”—but they would not listen. So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
Do this, do that, a rule for this, a rule for that; a little here, a little there—
so that as they go they will fall backward; they will be injured and snared and captured. (NIV)
The point is that God would speak to unbelieving Jews through other tongues. Because of their resistance to His truth, the unbelievers would fall backwards, be injured and snared and captured. When Cornelius and his companions spoke in tongues in Acts 10, there were no unbelieving Jews present. The speech in tongues did not mock anyone; it glorified God, and it was the result of faith. The newly-believing (and tongues-speaking) gentiles did not fall backward or get snared and captured.
You conflate those speaking in tongues with those under God's judgment; that is incorrect. Those who speak in tongues are being used of God to speak the truth to the unbelievers, which is what happened in Acts 2, and which is consistent with Paul's statement, "tongues are a sign for unbelievers".
Paul tells us to "eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit" which includes speaking in tongues. Why? So that the gifted individual may glory in the gift? No, although the gifted individual is edified, and not in the incorrect "self-edification" way you espouse. Rather, God desires that we seek the gifts so that He is glorified and that His purposes (the edification of the Church and the extension of His kingdom to include new believers) are accomplished.
The foundation of tongues, as you call it, is Isaiah 28:11-13:
"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”; and, “This is the place of repose”—but they would not listen. So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
Do this, do that, a rule for this, a rule for that; a little here, a little there—
so that as they go they will fall backward; they will be injured and snared and captured. (NIV)
The point is that God would speak to unbelieving Jews through other tongues. Because of their resistance to His truth, the unbelievers would fall backwards, be injured and snared and captured. When Cornelius and his companions spoke in tongues in Acts 10, there were no unbelieving Jews present. The speech in tongues did not mock anyone; it glorified God, and it was the result of faith. The newly-believing (and tongues-speaking) gentiles did not fall backward or get snared and captured.
You conflate those speaking in tongues with those under God's judgment; that is incorrect. Those who speak in tongues are being used of God to speak the truth to the unbelievers, which is what happened in Acts 2, and which is consistent with Paul's statement, "tongues are a sign for unbelievers".
Paul tells us to "eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit" which includes speaking in tongues. Why? So that the gifted individual may glory in the gift? No, although the gifted individual is edified, and not in the incorrect "self-edification" way you espouse. Rather, God desires that we seek the gifts so that He is glorified and that His purposes (the edification of the Church and the extension of His kingdom to include new believers) are accomplished.
Your church runs Alpha? Ours does, too. I'll have to investigate, Wolf'. I know about the weekend away and that it includes teaching on the Holy Spirit. The videos you watched - are they Alpha Course videos? The weekend our church offers happens at the church - I haven't heard about it happening anywhere else - und wir sind stinknormale Baptisten!
Hi man yes our church is running alpha course its a russiangerman church. But it seems we have a church in the church. This means the active part is very open for modern ways, like willow creek and also for charismatic teachers. The mainpart of the church is not so involved in this and is more baptists russia stil.
One brother told me that they modified the teachings a little bit in a moderate stil.
But why then visiting by the theme of the Holy Spirit an charismatic church?
Yes, I saw the official videos from alpha course.
And yes, it depents how somebody teach the stuff. Do you know that the Alpha course movement had some contact with the toronto blessing movement?
One brother told me that they modified the teachings a little bit in a moderate stil.
But why then visiting by the theme of the Holy Spirit an charismatic church?
Yes, I saw the official videos from alpha course.
And yes, it depents how somebody teach the stuff. Do you know that the Alpha course movement had some contact with the toronto blessing movement?
I have, more than once, but here it is again. First, the relevant bits of your earlier post:
Thanks for the reply
I would offer because they have not the Spirit of Christ. They must wrestle against flesh and blood as in out of sight out of mind Paganism. No faith. No Creator God. In their mind there is no God not seen. They resisted it by doing the will of the god of this world
The king of the atheist.
I have offered before. It makes no difference if a unbeliever is not there. It is still sign against them and prophecy to those who were. there .
Its like if a tree falls in the woods and there is no human witness does it make a noise? I think God hear all things that fall backward. .
No, I offer tongues.as prophecy. God speaking in other languages as prophesying and giving hearing in other languages. It is a sign against those who have no faith. Those that do prophecy speak in a new tongue the gospel .It reveals unbelief (no eternal faith) to those who make the word of God without effect.
In Acts 2 .those in whom the sign was against heard the promise of Isaiah 28 and thought they were drunk when just the opposite God had accused them . The drunks called the Christian's drunk as in making baby noises without meaning .
Un-believing mankind that reflects on the foundation of tongues...as it reads...
The priests and prophets are all drunk with wine and beer. They stumble and fall down. The prophets are drunk when they see their dreams. The judges are drunk when they make their decisions. Every table is covered with vomit. There is not a clean place anywhere.The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies: “Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqa Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.Isaiah 9-11
In other words; mock me. . Like the Queen of hearts . . I will call you to fall backward or fall away and your head "the god of this world" will fall off.
The unbelieving Jew is simply used to represent faithless mankind .The froward generation of Adam, or called the evil generation. Mankind that put their faith in mankind seen as oral traditions that do make the tradition of God without effect. Taking away his understanding.
Yes, when God was still adding to the cannon it was possible that he would bring prophecy through that manner. today we have electronic devises for sharing the gospel with those of another language. The new electronic tongue. Great for getting the gospel out to the whole in a hope of making disciples with men ..
Yes, spiritual gifts, gifts not seen, not gifts that edify oneself or the group that promotes that manner of spirit . . . lusting after the works as pleasing to the eyes lusting after the feel good flesh to give that self edification wonderment of falling backward .Putting a faith that others will remember to catch them. Good way to break a neck.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Thanks for the reply
I would offer because they have not the Spirit of Christ. They must wrestle against flesh and blood as in out of sight out of mind Paganism. No faith. No Creator God. In their mind there is no God not seen. They resisted it by doing the will of the god of this world
The king of the atheist.
I have offered before. It makes no difference if a unbeliever is not there. It is still sign against them and prophecy to those who were. there .
Its like if a tree falls in the woods and there is no human witness does it make a noise? I think God hear all things that fall backward. .
No, I offer tongues.as prophecy. God speaking in other languages as prophesying and giving hearing in other languages. It is a sign against those who have no faith. Those that do prophecy speak in a new tongue the gospel .It reveals unbelief (no eternal faith) to those who make the word of God without effect.
In Acts 2 .those in whom the sign was against heard the promise of Isaiah 28 and thought they were drunk when just the opposite God had accused them . The drunks called the Christian's drunk as in making baby noises without meaning .
Un-believing mankind that reflects on the foundation of tongues...as it reads...
The priests and prophets are all drunk with wine and beer. They stumble and fall down. The prophets are drunk when they see their dreams. The judges are drunk when they make their decisions. Every table is covered with vomit. There is not a clean place anywhere.The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies: “Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqa Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.Isaiah 9-11
In other words; mock me. . Like the Queen of hearts . . I will call you to fall backward or fall away and your head "the god of this world" will fall off.
The unbelieving Jew is simply used to represent faithless mankind .The froward generation of Adam, or called the evil generation. Mankind that put their faith in mankind seen as oral traditions that do make the tradition of God without effect. Taking away his understanding.
Yes, when God was still adding to the cannon it was possible that he would bring prophecy through that manner. today we have electronic devises for sharing the gospel with those of another language. The new electronic tongue. Great for getting the gospel out to the whole in a hope of making disciples with men ..
Yes, spiritual gifts, gifts not seen, not gifts that edify oneself or the group that promotes that manner of spirit . . . lusting after the works as pleasing to the eyes lusting after the feel good flesh to give that self edification wonderment of falling backward .Putting a faith that others will remember to catch them. Good way to break a neck.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Who are the "they" to whom you refer? Those who speak in tongues?
I disagree with your interpretation, because it makes no sense.
Nowhere in Scripture is "speaking in tongues" conflated with "speaking the gospel".
That is not about tongues at all. Don't conflate unrelated passages of Scripture and expect to make sense of them.
"Eagerly desire" according to the direction Paul gave has nothing to do with "lusting after the works". Get your head straight, man!
I disagree with your interpretation, because it makes no sense.
Nowhere in Scripture is "speaking in tongues" conflated with "speaking the gospel".
That is not about tongues at all. Don't conflate unrelated passages of Scripture and expect to make sense of them.
"Eagerly desire" according to the direction Paul gave has nothing to do with "lusting after the works". Get your head straight, man!
L
One time a serpent was crawling into the chair where my young son was sitting, and I grabbed it by the tail and yanked it away from my son, every time it would strike to bite me I would slap it hard on the head so as to daze it until I could get where I could throw it down. Does that count as taking up serpents?
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I would offer no that is not the meanining. Serepents are used to represent the father of lies. His lies as poison ."Ye shall not die" Or what Jesus called the faithless Jewish leaders. . a brood of vipers or brood. False prophets that bring the poison of false doctrines. As we can see in the parable that false prophecy will not affect them they will not go above that which is written and sealed with 7 seals . True prophecy swallows up false as shown with Moses and the Pharaoh it does not harm to true prophecy .
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
That principle in the parable above when compared to Acts 28 account a parallel parable as the comparing the spiritual unseen understanding to the same understanding . It show us how, while a historical view as the literal is true it is set aside represent the unseen
And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god. In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us three days courteously. And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
In both cases poison is used to represent false doctrine. And serpent represent the father of lies. And in both case the power of our new tongue the gospel accompanied with prayer signified by the laying on of hands . Like prayer and fasting. Fasting to reprsent the true gospel as being heard on high . It cast out lying spirits as fasle prophecy.
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
That principle in the parable above when compared to Acts 28 account a parallel parable as the comparing the spiritual unseen understanding to the same understanding . It show us how, while a historical view as the literal is true it is set aside represent the unseen
And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god. In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us three days courteously. And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
In both cases poison is used to represent false doctrine. And serpent represent the father of lies. And in both case the power of our new tongue the gospel accompanied with prayer signified by the laying on of hands . Like prayer and fasting. Fasting to reprsent the true gospel as being heard on high . It cast out lying spirits as fasle prophecy.
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Desiring the lust flesh as a greater master ? Can we serve two good Masters?
Yes "Eagerly desire" the unseen gifts of the spirit .Not for what the eyes see and the flesh as those who fall away .Holding on to Pride or what some self edification. It comes before the fall backward. Edify the unseen .Fall forward. Put on the head of Christ. . man ! Groovy Far out, .Ya feeling me. . man! LOL
Yes "Eagerly desire" the unseen gifts of the spirit .Not for what the eyes see and the flesh as those who fall away .Holding on to Pride or what some self edification. It comes before the fall backward. Edify the unseen .Fall forward. Put on the head of Christ. . man ! Groovy Far out, .Ya feeling me. . man! LOL
Hi my friend!
I didn't know, no. If there was "some contact" (if it can be proven) that might not be a hanging offence. I'd be more interested in knowing what the teaching is now and what they did with it then. And in fact, if this "contact" can be substantiated. To simply say there was some contact sounds like the "if Believer A is associated with Believer B who has somehow associated himself with C who holds a False Doctrine, must D break off association with A, even though A does not hold the Doctrine, to avoid the taint?" sort of thing, doesn't it.
I didn't know, no. If there was "some contact" (if it can be proven) that might not be a hanging offence. I'd be more interested in knowing what the teaching is now and what they did with it then. And in fact, if this "contact" can be substantiated. To simply say there was some contact sounds like the "if Believer A is associated with Believer B who has somehow associated himself with C who holds a False Doctrine, must D break off association with A, even though A does not hold the Doctrine, to avoid the taint?" sort of thing, doesn't it.