Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

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Mar 28, 2016
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Also fails to address the many explicit OT prophecies referencing the Regathering and third temple. Sorry.

Also fails to address the many explicit OT prophecies referencing the Regathering and third temple. Sorry.
Dispensationalism simply need to learn how to "walk by faith" rightly dividing the parables. And stop literalizing the signified language of God.

The "third temple" is the unseen one in the "third heaven" the vision of John in respect the residents the, bride of Christ called Christians, as the golden or pure measure .

Not another one, a temporal seen that stands in the holy unseen place of God, called faith .The abomination of desolation. Which is the things seen the temporal that stand in the holy unseen eternal things of God called. . . faith as the one source by which all believers believe the gospel .

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21:22-25
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Sixthly, do you realize that dispensationalists separate Christ's teachings into two different gospels? They claim that there is a "gospel of the Cross" and a "gospel of the Kingdom" (the earthly Jewish kingdom). I was shocked to see that in a book by Renault Showers called "There Really Is a Difference!". He is one of their primary gurus.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Has the end come? Paul says his gospel has gone out to all the world, unto all nations. Must be different.

Colossians 1:
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I don't think that there's a possibility. Regardless of the specific application, it's talking about a condition of peace (shalom) under Christ's rule.

Rather than your interpretation, which is claiming that it will be literally fulfilled only in the animal kingdom apparently. The interpretation I think is correct is more universal.

Wooden literalism of dispensationalists isn't required to understand Scripture.

In fact, I'd say it led to being fooled by the cult I was involved with as a young person. They were wooden literalists too.
You are trying to say it’s impossible to meet another Christian who spiritualize the terms, wolf and lamb,, differently from you?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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The fact that Israel IS in the land should be a wake up call.
But...this is much more compelling...

Luke 1:26

"Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee. But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

If you want to say that this is speaking to the Church, you are in for quite an uphill battle. But worse....doing so is brazen heresy.
I totally agree cv5. It is equally an uphill battle to interpret the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel as referring to the church as well, which is what he has proclaimed. But this is a commonly known false teaching.

The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. But God is going to deal with the unbelieving nation of Israel during the last seven years of their decree of seventy 'sevens.'
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I totally agree cv5. It is equally an uphill battle to interpret the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel as referring to the church as well, which is what he has proclaimed. But this is a commonly known false teaching.

The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. But God is going to deal with the unbelieving nation of Israel during the last seven years of their decree of seventy 'sevens.'
Then, why not agree with me that the book on James is addressing these same people, the twelve tribes? Think about it...these can’t be saved Jews in the Church age.

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I totally agree cv5. It is equally an uphill battle to interpret the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel as referring to the church as well, which is what he has proclaimed. But this is a commonly known false teaching.

The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. But God is going to deal with the unbelieving nation of Israel during the last seven years of their decree of seventy 'sevens.'

Why wait till the last 7 years? What happened to today if you hear his voice harden not your heart but believe unto salvation? What happens to the Jews that do not trust the new testament in the mean time? How many will be left when he returns. Will he find faith or faithless mankind?
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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So basically, you would say that you understand aspects of the role of Israel eschatology better than the apostles, and that your approach to eschatology depends on your having knowledge the apostles did not.
I wonder who is trying to resurrect this thread from back is September. The OP has been pushing an agenda which is based on man-made theology.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Then, why not agree with me that the book on James is addressing these same people, the twelve tribes? Think about it...these can’t be saved Jews in the Church age.

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Why can't they be saved Jews?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Why can't they be saved Jews?
A Jew is one born again inwardly according to the Spirit of Christ not according to the flesh outwardly .The same with Israel, all Israel is not born again Israel or the new name he named personally as his bride Christian, previously called her a Jew or Israel .

Salvation has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh of mankind as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood. like Jacob the deceiver before his born again conversion. Even the Son of man made it clear His flesh profits for nothing.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Then, why not agree with me that the book on James is addressing these same people, the twelve tribes? Think about it...these can’t be saved Jews in the Church age.

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Hello John146,

James is indeed speaking to the twelve tribes of Israel, but not in reference to those 144,000 who come out of the unbelieving Israel during the tribulation period. Any Jew from the twelve tribes who became a believer (like Paul, Peter, etc.) who became a believers, belong to the church.

Currently there are Messianic Jews, which belong to the church and there is also the unbelieving nation of Israel, those who did not and do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. It is the latter that God is going to deal with during the tribulation period.

Simply put, there were Jews during the first century from the twelve tribes of Israel, who believed in Jesus and therefore belong to the church. Remember Pentecost? Three thousand Jews were added to the church in one day. But there are also Jews who are unbelieving, which is symbolically represented by the woman of Revelation 12. During the beginning of the tribulation, there will be 144,000 Israelites who will come out from Israel (gives birth to) who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. This is the male child.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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You are trying to say it’s impossible to meet another Christian who spiritualize the terms, wolf and lamb,, differently from you?
It is possible to meet someone who would say anything. This forum is proof of that.

What I'm saying is that it's obvious from the context that it is talking about a time of peace. Wildlife isn't the main intention of the author. The peace is.

Do you deny that?
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Has the end come? Paul says his gospel has gone out to all the world, unto all nations. Must be different.

Colossians 1:
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
"All the world" is hyperbole, and is talking about all of the known world. The gospel regarding Jesus had spread throughout the known world around the Mediterranean at that time.

And, to be honest, anyone who has read the Bible seriously should know that the Bible employs hyperbole some times, and this is one of the most obvious cases. If you're a dispensationalist, though, you might not be able to recognize hyperbole.

Do you seriously think that all human beings at the time of Paul had heard the gospel of Jesus Christ? There are people today that have not heard the gospel of Jesus and the Cross, and we have advanced communication technology.

Getting back to the point, though..declaring the teachings of Darby and Scofield as a separate gospel is really strange. It reminds me of the cult I belonged to as a young man. The founder taught that the Millennium was THE TRUE GOSPEL and that this gospel of Jesus and the Cross was not. I guess dispensationalism doesn't go quite that far, but almost.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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In I Corinthians 15, they that experience the resurrection are 'they that are his at His coming.' Revelation does not have everyone resurrected at the same time, and I understand you would take such things more allegorically.


We'd have to discuss each passage.



So basically, you would say that you understand aspects of the role of Israel eschatology better than the apostles, and that your approach to eschatology depends on your having knowledge the apostles did not. Why would Jesus affirm their belief about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel by telling them it was not for them to know the times or seasons that were appointed by His Father if they were wrong? Why not just interpret scriptures about the restoration of Israel in a straightforward way like this passage indicates the apostles and also Christ did?

Also, the Lord Jesus had already told them to make disciples of all nations. But they had to work out the details of what would happen. Jesus had opened up their minds to understand the scriptures. So why should we assume what understanding they had was wrong, even if they had to grow into a fuller understanding of how the major points of it would come to pass?



There are a wide array of views under the broad tent of dispensationalism. There are also those that hold to what I would call hyperdispensational views of multiple gospels.

If you read about very early Christian views of eschatology, they believed that Christ would set up an actual kingdom on earth. For example, like Justin who wrote of the prophets being in Jerusalem in the eschatological future.
The early church fathers were not dispensationalists. Some of them were chiliasts, believing in a millennial reign of Christ, but there was by no means a consensus on this point. Direct statements were made concerning the Jews that eliminated the possibility of dispensationalism being true. It was obvious they considered the Jews to be brethren like themselves, and there was no separate track that they were on in God's plans.

This is a claim that is circulated amongst dispensationalists, though.

Regarding the Apostles, no, I do not think my knowledge is superior. But, at the time of Jesus' ascension, they had not been led into all truth. Do you deny this? I think it's pretty apparent. They didn't even know how to handle the addition of Gentiles to the Church, and that is why Acts 15 (which you quoted) addressed the issue of Jews and the Mosaic Law.

By the way, if they believed in dispensationalism, there's little evidence of that. Despite the efforts of dispensationalists to squeeze in an interval, I don't see any intervals between the resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the unrighteousness outside of the dispensationalist interpretation of Revelation 20.

Perhaps you can show me this, though. Show me evidence that there is a 1000 year gap between the resurrection of the righteous at Jesus' return, and the resurrection of the unrighteous to damnation.

Remember, I view Revelation 20 in a different manner, so I will not accept an exegesis of Revelation 20.

Additionally, I don't want to see a bunch of assertions from the Greek unless you have an advanced degree in Greek from a respected evangelical seminary. I freely acknowledge that I don't have a Greek background, so I don't usually make linguistic assertions. Neither do very many people here..I only know one person who has any decent academic credentials.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It is possible to meet someone who would say anything. This forum is proof of that.

What I'm saying is that it's obvious from the context that it is talking about a time of peace. Wildlife isn't the main intention of the author. The peace is.

Do you deny that?
You mean to say what is obvious to you, must also be obvious to anyone else?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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"All the world" is hyperbole, and is talking about all of the known world. The gospel regarding Jesus had spread throughout the known world around the Mediterranean at that time.

And, to be honest, anyone who has read the Bible seriously should know that the Bible employs hyperbole some times, and this is one of the most obvious cases. If you're a dispensationalist, though, you might not be able to recognize hyperbole.

Do you seriously think that all human beings at the time of Paul had heard the gospel of Jesus Christ? There are people today that have not heard the gospel of Jesus and the Cross, and we have advanced communication technology.

Getting back to the point, though..declaring the teachings of Darby and Scofield as a separate gospel is really strange. It reminds me of the cult I belonged to as a young man. The founder taught that the Millennium was THE TRUE GOSPEL and that this gospel of Jesus and the Cross was not. I guess dispensationalism doesn't go quite that far, but almost.
A couple of pro
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Then you should say, "My view is that it is..." instead of "its obvious"
It's obvious. The verse describes peace.

Do you think it applies only to the animal kingdom, or is the animal kingdom one manifestation of it?

And, is the manifestation in the animal kingdom most important, or is the peace important?

I don't think dispensationalists can reason very well...

Here's another example..I bet you are oblivious to the references to Eden that the Prophets are inferring, when they talk about desolate places becoming fruitful and lush. You probably don't understand that the entire storyline of the Bible is a return back to a glorified version of Eden.

The problem is that the dispensationalists cannot typically understand this storyline, and will simply think that my exegesis is speculative. Yet, I know it is true, and so do knowledgeable covenant theology guys.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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Gods promises are meaningless

forever does not mean forever,


if amill is true, non of us have any hope, because God can go back on us too
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It's obvious. The verse describes peace.

Do you think it applies only to the animal kingdom, or is the animal kingdom one manifestation of it?

And, is the manifestation in the animal kingdom most important, or is the peace important?

I don't think dispensationalists can reason very well...

Here's another example..I bet you are oblivious to the references to Eden that the Prophets are inferring, when they talk about desolate places becoming fruitful and lush. You probably don't understand that the entire storyline of the Bible is a return back to a glorified version of Eden.

The problem is that the dispensationalists cannot typically understand this storyline, and will simply think that my exegesis is speculative. Yet, I know it is true, and so do knowledgeable covenant theology guys.
Why is it obvious that it is not to be taken literally?

If you meet another who believes it is literal, a wolf shall lay with a lamb in peace, why would he be incorrect to you?