Where in scripture are instructions to cancel the feasts?

Whispered · Jan 30, 2020

It is true that the Christian isn't obligated to honor the feasts however, if you know Christians, as I do, who honor the Sabbath day, that was not abolished by Christ, and honor the remaining feast days, in comparison to other Christians, like myself who do not do these things but find no fault in others who care to, there is a difference in their frame of mind compared to myself and others like me. Those who do not honor Sabbath regularly, and do not honor the feasts.
Those who do have this discipline , as I call it, wherein they are peace filled, secure in their place in God's church, and are untroubled by what life swings at them from the worldly side of their life.
The energy in their homes is different, the energy in themselves is sometimes so strong in the Lord that it is like a force field that radiates outward. Hugging those friends hello and so long, it even envelopes me. Hard to explain but I hope I did my best to paint the picture enough so that a reader can get what I'm saying.

I think maybe it is because they feel a different way in honoring a calendar of worship, rest, and communion with God, as they do everyday of course, that makes their faithful presence among the rest of us, our mutual circle of friends who also do not honor Sabbath or the feasts, seem set apart and in a brilliant way.

7seasrekeyed · Jan 30, 2020

Blik said:

you assume alot about people and that indicates you do not actually give credence to what they say or perhaps you think it is not important...at any rate, you are assuming things about me here again

did someone anywhere at all in this thread say Jesus needed to repeat something or anything? no

people have responded to your op and posted scripture to try and show you that we do not need to keep what was given to the Jews regarding any law or celebration

we have a new ordinant given by Jesus Himself. when He broke bread with His disciples before His Crucifixion, He said to continue to do that in remembrance of Him.

Paul was really angry at the Judaizers who insisted Gentile converts should get themselves circumcised and Paul knew far more about his religion than you and I ever will

you also state I or others are trying to do away with OT practices but it is God Himself who has done away with them and you wish to continue in them

even God will not stop you from doing so when you have the Bible to correct your beliefs

I do not believe anything I or others say will change your mind and you will most likely keep trying to say I said things I never said and accuse others of the same

Dino246 · Jan 30, 2020

Whispered said:

That makes better sense; thanks for explaining.

I think that the answer to your question requires speculation, because Scripture says nothing to Christians about practicing the feasts. Looking at it from a different angle, we don't gain God's approval by our actions, but by our faith in Christ and His finished work.

7seasrekeyed · Jan 30, 2020

Whispered said:

I attended a Messianic congregation for almost 2 years and that was held on Saturday. I have mostly attended church on Sunday but would go to a Messianic congregation again if I could find one I liked as much as the other, but that one broke up because some insisted on keeping all Jewish tradition and one even thought they could keep all the law and save themself.

the problem is conflating scripture as has been observed with the op doing so and then, due to lack of understanding, trying to make people seem to say the things he objects to .... personally, I just will not spend time trying to straighten that out for several reasons

I don't care how people feel about things either because the gospel is not based on how we feel

people seem to be more than a little good at adding to scripture and questioning what God 'really' said...a holdover no doubt from the garden

I am not the one who condemns or judges these things. every day is a worship day whether or not we acknowledge it

7seasrekeyed · Jan 30, 2020

Whispered said:

well, not taking sides, but it sure got Paul more than a little angry when the Judaizers tried to make Gentile converts go get circumcised

and then we have the book of Galatians...

I think people can come to their own conclusions from scripture

the temple curtain was rent from top to bottom when Jesus gave up His life

God had accepted His sacrifice and we now have our High Priest who is our mediator

we are born anew in our spirit at this time on earth and our flesh is not able to please God and never was no matter how many sacrifices were made and the blood of animals could never remove sin as does the blood of Christ

all this is explained in the NT and that is what a Christian should believe

whether or not God condemns people for trying to resurrect a system never meant for Gentiles, as Paul clearly says, is not my territory

however, why do that when God has made an eternal way and no further sacrifice is needed and perhaps displeases God as though what He provided is not enough?

anyway, there have been tremendous debates concerning these things in times past and most likely people who were here then remember them well

those who wish to do so again obviously will do so again

Whispered · Jan 30, 2020

7seasrekeyed said:

What a strange occurrence that a member of a Messianic congregation would arrive at such a thought. (keep the law, save themselves).
I won't judge the OP's motives for this post. I think there has been enough back and forth concerning certain Old Testament practices and their application, yes, no, to the Christian today, that a feasts thread was likely inevitable.And when I saw it I thought it was a natural outcome as OT practices have been discussed thus far, such as keeping the law (yes/no), observing the Sabbath(yes/no), and I think there was something as I recall about women dressing as men?

I look forward, if you would indulge me, as to your elaborating more on your statement about the Gospel is not based on how we feel. Knowing how the Gospel came to us, what do you mean about it not being based, beyond how it arrived, on how we feel?

I also think it is a natural thing for people to find themselves conflicted in understanding the context of scripture. I don't think it is a holdover from the garden in so much as it is representative of, as I've noted prior in other matters, our being influenced by Denominational interpretations. Or, if we are nor have ever been a member of a Denomination per say, then our own efforts to comprehend the message in scripture.

Whispered · Jan 30, 2020

7seasrekeyed said:

If I were male and an adult and uncircumcised I'd be a little angry that someone said I suddenly had to get snippered.

[/quote]and then we have the book of Galatians...

I think people can come to their own conclusions from scripture

the temple curtain was rent from top to bottom when Jesus gave up His life

God had accepted His sacrifice and we now have our High Priest who is our mediator

we are born anew in our spirit at this time on earth and our flesh is not able to please God and never was no matter how many sacrifices were made and the blood of animals could never remove sin as does the blood of Christ

all this is explained in the NT and that is what a Christian should believe

whether or not God condemns people for trying to resurrect a system never meant for Gentiles, as Paul clearly says, is not my territory

however, why do that when God has made an eternal way and no further sacrifice is needed and perhaps displeases God as though what He provided is not enough?

anyway, there have been tremendous debates concerning these things in times past and most likely people who were here then remember them well

those who wish to do so again obviously will do so again[/QUOTE]
Well, I think we have to recall that the Gentiles are those other sheep that Jesus came to bring into the fold so that we would all be one fold under one Shepherd. And further, Paul said, we are all one in Christ as members of that fold.
When God's word tells us, Salvation is of the Jews, I cannot say what no longer exists as that Gentile identity, is now exempt from honoring God and His calendar.
Thinking that this or that doesn't apply to me because I'm a Gentile goes contrary to Paul's epistle in Galatians chapter 3.

Whispered · Jan 30, 2020

Dino246 said:

That's because there were no such thing as Christians , a label, when God was inspiring His Truth to be recorded for all time. If we're all one in Christ, and there is no segregation, while Salvation is of the Jews, as God tells us, why would we think the feast days that honor God's calendar that is set to establish a sacred time, a communion, between the spirits of man and God, are to be done away with? Not saying they're mandated of course. What would be the harm if a Christian observed those holy days.

And I disagree when you said we don't gain God's approval by our actions in this sense. We are going to be judged for our deeds. (The Book of Romans chapter 2). Therefore, when we are going to be judged for our deeds, certainly God's approval or disapproval is a factor within that framework. No, our deeds don't save us as we know and I'm not saying that at they do, just to avoid any confusion.

7seasrekeyed · Jan 30, 2020

Whispered said:

and then we have the book of Galatians...

I think people can come to their own conclusions from scripture

the temple curtain was rent from top to bottom when Jesus gave up His life

God had accepted His sacrifice and we now have our High Priest who is our mediator

we are born anew in our spirit at this time on earth and our flesh is not able to please God and never was no matter how many sacrifices were made and the blood of animals could never remove sin as does the blood of Christ

all this is explained in the NT and that is what a Christian should believe

whether or not God condemns people for trying to resurrect a system never meant for Gentiles, as Paul clearly says, is not my territory

however, why do that when God has made an eternal way and no further sacrifice is needed and perhaps displeases God as though what He provided is not enough?

anyway, there have been tremendous debates concerning these things in times past and most likely people who were here then remember them well

those who wish to do so again obviously will do so again[/QUOTE]
Well, I think we have to recall that the Gentiles are those other sheep that Jesus came to bring into the fold so that we would all be one fold under one Shepherd. And further, Paul said, we are all one in Christ as members of that fold.
When God's word tells us, Salvation is of the Jews, I cannot say what no longer exists as that Gentile identity, is now exempt from honoring God and His calendar.
Thinking that this or that doesn't apply to me because I'm a Gentile goes contrary to Paul's epistle in Galatians chapter 3.[/QUOTE]

what applies to me is the blood of Christ shed for me

that blood, applied to me, assures me that God hears me when I pray

that blood has made a way for me to enter into God's presence

the High Priest in the OT had a rope tied to him in case God struck him dead

we are assured we now may enter where the High Priest was to go but once a year and not be assured he would come out alive

you want to talk about Galatians 3? nothing in there obscures what Paul says concerning the Galatians leaving their spiritual rebirth to follow the flesh. in fact Paul asks them who has bewitched them

v 17 of Galatians 3:

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

that is plain that the law does not bring the inheritance

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit[e] through faith. GAl 3

I don't know what you may think applies to you apart from salvation through faith

I find nothing but I am aware people want to seem to find something

I am fine with you or anyone thinking I am missing something. I believe what scriptures states and I accept it as the truth

I am also not continuing in this thread

I had blik on ignore for a long time and it seems that was the better choice. useless merry go round discussion do nothing but frustrate people and debating whether or not Christians need to keep anything given to the Jews is useless

for one thing, most of them did not even accept their Messiah when He appeared

they are still looking but one day God will straighten that out

Aerials1978 · Jan 31, 2020

Magenta said:

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the Jewish prophet Amos records that God declared He would do nothing without first revealing it to His servants, the prophets (Amos 3:7). From the Old Covenant to the New, Genesis to Revelation, God provides picture after picture of His entire plan for mankind and one of the most startling prophetic pictures is outlined for us in the Jewish feasts of Leviticus 23.

The Hebrew word for “feasts” (moadim) literally means "appointed times." God has carefully planned and orchestrated the timing and sequence of each of these seven feasts to reveal to us a special story. The seven annual feasts of Israel were spread over seven months of the Jewish calendar, at set times appointed by God. They are still celebrated by observant Jews today. But for both Jews and non-Jews who have placed their faith in Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, these special days demonstrate the work of redemption through God’s Son.

The first four of the seven feasts occur during the springtime (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Weeks), and they all have already been fulfilled by Christ in the New Testament. The final three holidays (Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles) occur during the fall, all within a short fifteen-day period.

Many Bible scholars and commentators believe that these fall feasts have not yet been fulfilled by Jesus. However, the “blessed hope” (Titus 2:13) for all believers in Jesus Christ is that they most assuredly will be fulfilled. As the four spring feasts were fulfilled literally and right on the actual feast day in connection with Christ’s first coming, these three fall feasts, it is believed by many, will likewise be fulfilled literally in connection to the Lord’s second coming.

In a nutshell, here is the prophetic significance of each of the seven Levitical feasts of Israel:

1) Passover (Leviticus 23:5) – Pointed to the Messiah as our Passover lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7) whose blood would be shed for our sins. Jesus was crucified during the time that the Passover was observed (Mark 14:12). Christ is a “lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19) because His life was completely free from sin (Hebrews 4:15). As the first Passover marked the Hebrews’ release from Egyptian slavery, so the death of Christ marks our release from the slavery of sin (Romans 8:2).

2) Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6) – Pointed to the Messiah’s sinless life (as leaven is a picture of sin in the Bible), making Him the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Jesus’ body was in the grave during the first days of this feast, like a kernel of wheat planted and waiting to burst forth as the bread of life.

3) First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10) – Pointed to the Messiah’s resurrection as the first fruits of the righteous. Jesus was resurrected on this very day, which is one of the reasons that Paul refers to him in 1 Corinthians 15:20 as the "first fruits from the dead."

4) Weeks or Pentecost (Leviticus 23:16) – Occurred fifty days after the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and pointed to the great harvest of souls and the gift of the Holy Spirit for both Jew and Gentile, who would be brought into the kingdom of God during the Church Age (see Acts 2). The Church was actually established on this day when God poured out His Holy Spirit and 3,000 Jews responded to Peter’s great sermon and his first proclamation of the gospel.

5) Trumpets (Leviticus 23:24) – The first of the fall feasts. Many believe this day points to the Rapture of the Church when the Messiah Jesus will appear in the heavens as He comes for His bride, the Church. The Rapture is always associated in Scripture with the blowing of a loud trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:52).

6) Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:27) – Many believe this prophetically points to the day of the Second Coming of Jesus when He will return to earth. That will be the Day of Atonement for the Jewish remnant when they "look upon Him whom they have pierced," repent of their sins, and receive Him as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and Romans 11:1-6, 25-36).

7) Tabernacles or Booths (Leviticus 23:34) – Many scholars believe that this feast day points to the Lord’s promise that He will once again “tabernacle” with His people when He returns to reign over all the world (Micah 4:1-7).

Should Christians celebrate these Levitical feast days of Israel today? Whether or not a Christian celebrates the Jewish feast days would be a matter of conscience for the individual Christian. Colossians 2:16-17 tells us, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Christians are not bound to observe the Jewish feasts the way an Old Testament Jew was, but we should not criticize another believer who does or does not observe these special days and feasts (Romans 14:5).

While it is not required for Christians to celebrate the Jewish feast days, it is beneficial to study them. Certainly, it could be beneficial to celebrate these days if it leads one to a greater understanding and appreciation for Christ’s death and resurrection and the future promise of His coming. As Christians, if we choose to celebrate these special days, we should put Christ in the center of the celebration, as the One who came to fulfill the prophetic significance of each of them. source

You continue to amaze me with not only your humbleness, but your knowledge of scripture. Much love and appreciation for what the Lord as done for you and through you!

Blik · Jan 31, 2020

Dino246 said:

I am as sure that you are completely incorrect in your individual interpretation of God as you are that I am incorrect. I have had more study of scripture, besides. Yes, I am deeply offended by your accusations of me, I believe scripture discussions should be done respectfully and in a Christian way and that doesn't seem to be what you think. If you actually had 2 plus 2 equal 4 your accusations would not be so off base but they don't.

Lanolin · Jan 31, 2020

Im pretty sure we still celebrate passover but because of Jesus new covenant its become the Lords Supper or communion and taken on a whole new meaning.

as for the sabbath, people still observe it but now we have an extra day, the first day of the week known as the Lords day to relax, as that was the day He was resurrected.

I wouldnt get too hung up about sticking to all the jewish traditions particularly if you are not jewish yourself. If youve been adopted into Gods family, you can still celebrate but you are actually not obligated to be a strict observer.

Blik · Jan 31, 2020

7seasrekeyed said:

To believe this you need to believe that hundreds of scripture verses are incorrect.

We are to understand that love sums up the law, and there is no instructions given to us for how to live that isn't about love.

Disobedience of a law does not mean death for us, we have Christ who saves us from death. But when we put Christ in our life we put love. You can not love and still gossip, lie, steal or disobey the law.

Blik · Jan 31, 2020

7seasrekeyed said:

Wow and again Wow!
First, over and over posters say that something God says in the OT needs to be verified by Christ, they believe the NT is right and because so many commands of the OT is now obsolete through the new covenant they question all the OT. The God of the NT is the very same God as the God of the NT. Some things in the OT are said to be true for all generations. That means until Christ comes again.

Paul was opposed to people believing that the rituals given in the OT were to be followed instead of listening to the Holy Spirit within us. Paul did not say that he was against anything Jewish.

When people try to convince me scripture is incorrect and wrong, no I will not follow man instead of following God. If someone shows me I have misinterpreted what scripture says, I listen.

With deeper study of scripture, spending hours and hours at this, I found that I was very wrong about what I thought scripture taught. I was following church doctrine, not scripture. So wrong it brought me to tears. I WANT to simply follow God's ways and if that means change I have done that and would again. Are YOU open to learning about the true God?

pottersclay · Jan 31, 2020

In the few days I've been a Christian I've seen some things saints do that are not required but to them it makes them feel closer to God.
Dressing the family to the 9s to go to church. Waking up before sunrise to greet the Lord at daybreak in prayer.
Facing east when praying. Kissing the Bible after study or reading.
As long as they know it's not required and adds no special favor from God who are we to judge.
I'm sure that each one of us has a certain something we do that makes us feel that much closer to our king.
Is there any harm in it?
In some ways it gives me joy to see personal traits in saints. The effect the Lord has on them. In their hearts not their heads.
I do have to say I draw the line if I see dead sheep or bulls in someone's fire pit..☺️☺️☺️☺️

Blik · Jan 31, 2020

Whispered said:

God loves man, God's instructions to us is not about condemning. It is telling us of a happy, satisfying way to live. When God gave the ten commandments in stone that He later gives to us in our hearts, God doesn't tell us as a threat, but this is the way God tells us to be blessed.

If we do something like blessing God with honoring the feasts He gave us it is not to be done with shaking boots to avoid condemnation, but to celebrate the salvation God offers us. It is also not following Jewish customs that we do it, but because God told us to do this for all generations.

wattie · Jan 31, 2020

Blik said:

Scripture clearly tells us that we are to be guided by the Holy Spirit, not by the fleshly commands of fleshly circumcision or special diet. It explains why God did this. I don’t find the commands for cancelling the Sabbath or the feasts. These instructions are about worship and praising God very different from what circumcision and diet are about.

I studied history to discover when and how these cancellations came about. I searched information from the dead sea scrolls as well as established ancient history as Harvard and Yale teaches it. I found that it is probable that these decisions were based on what was happening in the secular world at that time rather than scripture teaching.

History tells us that when the Jews rebelled against Rome in 70 and 132 the Romans killed so many Jerusalem Jews the blood ran in the streets. Before this the Jews headed the Christian church councils, men like James the earthly brother of Jesus. They only had the OT, and the Jews knew it well, the gentiles didn’t. The gentile church heads were familiar with their pagan worship and they only changed gods, keeping a lot of their customs like Sunday church. They felt God wanted them to oppose Jews who denied Christ, they were against anything Jewish.

Adding to this was enmity between Christian Jews and those who denied Christ because Bar Kokbha who headed the revolt of 132 was said to be the messiah. They did not want to join ones who thought this, even to oppose Roman rule. When they would not help in the war, the Jews became angry at the Christian Jews.

For over 300 years these ideas influenced the church and there were many diverse ideas written about. There was no central council, no unification. Then came an Emperor of Rome (Constantine) who made Christianity the official religion, changing from pagan worship. He wanted a united Christianity, a central ruling council. The people of the church were called to meet. From this council meeting we have the Apostles’ Creed, and the church was unified. But along with this came the idea of the Jews having such wrong ideas everything they did must be opposed. Even Passover was tossed out, they said their Easter they created replaced it.

I think it is time we take a closer look at the policies they established. The idea of scripture telling us not to be led in worship by the seasons like the pagans do as a reason it means to cancel Sabbath on the last day of the week instead of the first, or that Mary discovered Christ had risen these or that Mary established Sunday because she discovered on Sunday morning that Christ had risen during the night has been thoroughly disproved as reasons, so let’s not go over that dead end again. Something so important as these cancellations would have been made clear in scripture like circumcision and diet has. Where are these instructions?

I think we are free to observe the feasts but there is no New Testament commandments to do them. New Testament church system of the faith of Christ isn't about that.

The other way to look at the feasts tho is knowing they foreshadow Christ and so can celebrate them that way I guess

Blik · Jan 31, 2020

wattie said:

Are you actually saying that God is to be listened to only as He spoke after Christ was crucified and never before?

Nehemiah6 · Jan 31, 2020

Whispered said:

In order to properly observe those holy days, one would need to STRICTLY obey every injunction connected with them. And that cannot be done honestly by anyone today. As far as God is concerned, it must be all or nothing, since these are His commandments. Don't forget that Nadab and Abihu tried to circumvent those commandments and died and went to Hell.

THE FEASTS WERE FOR THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. (Lev 23:2)

Why can no one observe those feasts today? Because there is NO temple in Jerusalem, NO tabernacle on earth, NO Levitical priesthood, NO Aaronic priests, and NO Levites.

THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD WAS REQUIRED (INDEED ESSENTIAL)
But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. (Lev 23:8) [BY THE PRIESTS]

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. (Lev 23:10,11)

And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. (Lev 23:12) [BY THE PRIESTS]

And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. (Lev 23:20)

Those are just a few examples. I already told Blik to study Leviticus carefully (which she ignored). You can study chapter 23 and see how you (or she, or anyone else) will circumvent the temple and the Levitical priesthood while you observe those feasts. And unless you stick to the letter and the spirit of the Law, God will REJECT your Torah observance.

Furthermore, to observe these feasts is to TRAMPLE on the finished work of Christ. He already fulfilled the feasts of Passover, First Fruits, Pentecost, and the Day of Atonement. He already became the Whole Burnt Offering, the Meal Offering, the Sin Offering, the Trespass Offering, the Passover Lamb, and any other sacrifice recorded in the Law of Moses. That is why the Old Covenant has been ABOLISHED. (Not the Ten Commandments but the Old Covenant). So going back means rejecting Christ. A very serious matter.

And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament [Covenant]; which vail is done away in Christ.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 31, 2020

wattie said:

No we are not. Read my post above.

Where in scripture are instructions to cancel the feasts?

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