Are they a wolf in sheeps clothes?

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Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#1
Sep 17, 2016
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Hillsong, Bethal, and Elevation worship. All have in common a huge follower base drawn in by music.

This will be a debate forum. Share your thoughts with facts, evidence, and opinions.

Premise:
These bands are linked to the new age, millionale, prosperity, word faith, charismatic
theology. Their music is very shallow in theology but the churches behind it are as many claim theologically inaccurate.

Here are a few questions to consider.

  1. How theologically accurate are the songs?
  2. How theologically accurate are the churches that sponsor these bands?
  3. Are these bands a serious threat to unite over or are they within ones conscious judgment?
  4. Are they a possible stepping stone to mature theology? (Many people have started for example with Joel Osteen but graduated to local churches.)
  5. Are they leading people to Hell or Heaven?
  6. Lead pastor's of these churches are Brian Houston, Bill Johnson, Steven Furtick.
Conclusion:
Will you defend or debate against the topic of are these groups a wolf in sheep's clothing?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
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You have made a good presentation. Yes, I have my own thoughts but no opinion to share other than, let them perform for no one hearing of our Lord and His goodness can be harmed by this.

It is good to be gigilant with people claiming to be family in Jesus, Yeshua, so please do not let my words dissuade you in any manner as long as youremember to love all, even those who you believe are sinning, and you are in a good way forgiven and in grace.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#3
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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Roughsoul1991 said:
This will be a debate forum. Share your thoughts with facts, evidence, and opinions.
Click to expand...
If people want some good detailed critiques of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM), they can go to this website: https://www.wayoflife.org.

CCM is a part of the modern day apostasy which is connected with the Emergent Church Movement.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#4
Jun 30, 2015
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I have found that many Christian songs (both modern and "traditional") present sketchy theology; the sources listed in the OP certainly haven't cornered the market on that. We should be discerning with music (or teaching) from any source, and be willing to accept theologically sound music (and teaching) from any source.

Song lyrics don't need to convey deep theology; that's what teaching is for. Not every "Christian" song is suitable for worship; most are just sharing a message consistent with the truth of the gospel, which may be shallow or deep. Songs which are selected for use in a corporate worship context should meet a standard for biblical soundness, but we do well to remember that some songs that are quite "shallow" are also suitable to express deep, heartfelt love to God.

Let's certainly toss the dirty bathwater, but only after lifting the baby out.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
#6
Feb 1, 2020
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Well I've only heard of the Hillsong people, but I had thought they were pretty much just homosexuals. Not even going to parse words about it, but most the "Christian" music scene seems just like a big old LGBT march. I wouldn't even call them wolves in sheep's clothing because it's so obvious you only have to take one look at them to figure it out.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#7
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
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#7
JeremiahsCup said:
Well I've only heard of the Hillsong people, but I had thought they were pretty much just homosexuals. Not even going to parse words about it, but most the "Christian" music scene seems just like a big old LGBT march. I wouldn't even call them wolves in sheep's clothing because it's so obvious you only have to take one look at them to figure it out.
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Wow... let's just completely ignore both any semblance of sound reasoning and Jesus' words in John 7:24.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#9
Jun 30, 2015
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#9
JeremiahsCup said:
Am I wrong about them though?
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I don't know personally any individuals associated with Hillsong, so I don't know. What I do know is that you cannot determine someone's sexual preference by their appearance, and also that it is wrong to assign a damning characterization merely on the basis of appearance.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
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Feb 1, 2020
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Dino246 said:
I don't know personally any individuals associated with Hillsong, so I don't know. What I do know is that you cannot determine someone's sexual preference by their appearance, and also that it is wrong to assign a damning characterization merely on the basis of appearance.
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Well have you considered that they are grown men singing choir music? I suggest you do some simple internet searches. You might be surprised by what you find. For me, I won't be surprised.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#11
Jun 10, 2019
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JeremiahsCup said:
Well have you considered that they are grown men singing choir music? I suggest you do some simple internet searches. You might be surprised by what you find. For me, I won't be surprised.
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Huh so you think grown men who sing choir music are gay
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
Too much to deal with in one post.
I don't lump all three in quite the same category.
I don't know Bethel church at all, so I will state now that nothing I have to say will applied to them.
I have never listened to Elevation worship so I can not speak to their song content. I have heard like nearly 3 of Steve's preachings; 1 I had no idea what he was talking about, 1 was pretty good actually, his statement was that Paul was ship wrecked and things were real bad for him, but he never lost faith in God. So pretty good message and the last one I don't remember at all.

I think Song is way off base, and not very doctrinal.

This all stems from a movement called revivalism kind of spear headed by a Charles Finney, which came from a mix of decision theology and Calvin's perseverance of the Saints. I believe it has served to empty the churches.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#13
Jun 30, 2015
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#13
JeremiahsCup said:
Well have you considered that they are grown men singing choir music? I suggest you do some simple internet searches. You might be surprised by what you find. For me, I won't be surprised.
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I'm not seeing the problem with that. Perhaps your concept of "choir music" is the problem. Give Handel's Hallelujah Chorus a listen and tell me whether you think men who sing that are all 'LGBT'.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
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Feb 1, 2020
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#14
JamOn said:
Huh so you think grown men who sing choir music are gay
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Yea that's pretty fruity. It makes me think of how I noticed years a go a pattern where a lot of the churchy people they will show me their little music idols and tell me how they're great "Christian" music and yadda yadda. I will tell them I think that they are gay bluntly. The fanboys and fangirls will get mad at me and protest. A few months later the obvious homosexual "Christian" musician declares they are an obvious homosexual. Somehow someway their little fans are so surprised and devastated, and I just sit there silently and roll my eyes
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
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Feb 1, 2020
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#15
Dino246 said:
I'm not seeing the problem with that. Perhaps your concept of "choir music" is the problem. Give Handel's Hallelujah Chorus a listen and tell me whether you think men who sing that are all 'LGBT'.
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Lol you gotta be trolling me to ask me if Handel was gay. But thanks for the laugh.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
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Jun 10, 2019
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#16
JeremiahsCup said:
Yea that's pretty fruity.
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well it’s just a simple style of music a genre, to accuse people of being homosexual because you don’t like that style of music is strange.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
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Feb 1, 2020
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JamOn said:
well it’s just a simple style of music a genre, to accuse people of being homosexual because you don’t like that style of music is strange.
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Well it's not so much the style of their music. It's moreso because a lot of the choir types are pretty gay and it's not really a secret. I think a lot of people because they have a bias towards the churches or towards people that label themselves "Christian music" they willfully blind themselves to what anyone without that bias sees pretty apparently, not just me.

This is my theory anyways as to the aforementioned pattern that I noticed wherein the churchy people will extoll a band or person, I or anyone else with common sense that isn't biased will say they seem kinda queer, the fan will get offended at us, a few months later the obvious gay that everyone could see was gay comes out as gay, their fans are shocked, but not anyone else.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
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Feb 1, 2020
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Dino246 said:
I neither asserted nor asked anything about Handel himself.
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Do I think a bunch of grown men singing choir music arranged by a known homosexual who was financed by homosexuals is homosexual? Yes, yes I do.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#20
Jun 10, 2019
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#20
JeremiahsCup said:
Well it's not so much the style of their music. It's moreso because a lot of the choir types are pretty gay and it's not really a secret. I think a lot of people because they have a bias towards the churches or towards people that label themselves "Christian music" they willfully blind themselves to what anyone without that bias sees pretty apparently, not just me.

This is my theory anyways as to the aforementioned pattern that I noticed wherein the churchy people will extoll a band or person, I or anyone else with common sense that isn't biased will say they seem kinda queer, the fan will get offended at us, a few months later the obvious gay that everyone could see was gay comes out as gay, their fans are shocked, but not anyone else.
Click to expand...
you said grown men singing choir music, I get exactly what you said I’m not buying it
 
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