Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[Noose]

Firstly, union of purpose is one of the aspects of union of nature, but there is nothing in Scripture which teaches man becomes deity.

You are apparently either proposing Jesus is only a man, or that humans become God. Both are false. Jesus is the unique God-man. There is no one like Him.

In fact, the cult I belonged to taught man would become God in the resurrection, which is a false teaching. Men become glorified humans, fit to represent God in the New Heavens and New Earth.

The things you are saying here are not supported by scripture and so is the idea of Trinity.

Acts 2:22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.

If Jesus was a man-God, this is the right point Peter would have let us know but he didn't because He is not.

 

[garee]

The Father and Son are immutable attributes of God. God is not a man as us. The Son of man lived in the same earthen body of death as us.

What applies to us applies the Son of man .Jesus applies to us ….the Son of man living in a corrupted body. But Jesus did not sin. The one difference needed to do what the letter of the law (death) could not do. Forgive sin in the flesh

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Dino246]

The Father and Son are immutable attributes of God.

They are not "attributes". They are Persons. Perhaps you should find a dictionary and read the definition of "attribute". I'd post it, but given your track record with ignoring information I post, I'll save the effort.

What applies to us applies the Son of man .Jesus applies to us

That is incoherent. Please take a class in basic English.

….the Son of man living in a corrupted body.

His body was not corrupted. Your statement is heretical.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The things you are saying here are not supported by scripture and so is the idea of Trinity.

Acts 2:22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.

If Jesus was a man-God, this is the right point Peter would have let us know but he didn't because He is not.

Your logic is laughable.

One verse says that Jesus is man (in fact many do) and you assume that he can ONLY be a man.

Are you Muslim or something? LOL

Their reasoning is that Jesus is a man, therefore he cannot be God.

Their reasoning is that he is a prophet, therefore he cannot be a priest, king, or God.

There are multiple verses throughout Scripture that focus on his humanity, and there are multiple verses throughout Scripture that focus on his deity.

Therefore, God-man is a good description of him.

He has a dual nature. He is both God and man, and serves as the "bridge" between sinful humanity and holy God. He is unique in this manner. He is as much human as me, and he is as much God as the Father. He is the unique God-man.

And, by being joined with Jesus through the mediatorial work of the Holy Spirit, Christians participate in the fellowship of the Triune God. They don't become God, but they participate in the fellowship of the Triune God, which progressively transforms them more and more into the image of Jesus, the perfect man.

These are amazing truths....too bad faulty views of God's nature (unitarianism, arianism, etcetera) blind non-Trinitarians from understanding this.

But there's hope..I was an ignorant anti-Trinitarian at one time too

 

[Noose]

Your logic is laughable.

One verse says that Jesus is man (in fact many do) and you assume that he can ONLY be a man.

Are you Muslim or something? LOL

Their reasoning is that Jesus is a man, therefore he cannot be God.

Their reasoning is that he is a prophet, therefore he cannot be a priest, king, or God.

There are multiple verses throughout Scripture that focus on his humanity, and there are multiple verses throughout Scripture that focus on his deity.

Therefore, God-man is a good description of him.

He has a dual nature. He is both God and man, and serves as the "bridge" between sinful humanity and holy God. He is unique in this manner. He is as much human as me, and he is as much God as the Father. He is the unique God-man.

And, by being joined with Jesus through the mediatorial work of the Holy Spirit, Christians participate in the fellowship of the Triune God. They don't become God, but they participate in the fellowship of the Triune God, which progressively transforms them more and more into the image of Jesus, the perfect man.

These are amazing truths....too bad faulty views of God's nature (unitarianism, arianism, etcetera) blind non-Trinitarians from understanding this.

But there's hope..I was an ignorant anti-Trinitarian at one time too

Many scriptures says He is a man but non says He is a God-man as you claim, if there is, please show us.

There's no such thing as dual nature, Jesus was either a man or God, choose one and stop passing on your confusion. You can not explain how two natures work in a person.

John 17 makes it clear, in the same manner the son is one with the Father, so are believers with Christ making all of them one. And in any case, partaking in the divine nature means partaking in it and not just hearing from a far, it means being part of it.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Many scriptures says He is a man but non says He is a God-man as you claim, if there is, please show us.

There's no such thing as dual nature, Jesus was either a man or God, choose one and stop passing on your confusion. You can not explain how two natures work in a person.

John 17 makes it clear, in the same manner the son is one with the Father, so are believers with Christ making all of them one. And in any case, partaking in the divine nature means partaking in it and not just hearing from a far, it means being part of it.

Keep drinking your Kool-aid, bud.

I think you're the one who told me that your theology was weird when I first talked to you, and so weird that it frightened even you.

Study the phrase hypostatic union. It is well-accepted that Jesus was both God and man.

Denying the true deity and the true humanity of Jesus are rank heresies.

I would disagree with one statement in this explanation, but it is pretty good. This is the statement I disagree with: " Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit." It's a true statement in one sense, but not in another because Jesus has always been the Son of God through eternal begettal. He became the "son of God" in one sense at the Incarnation, but in another sense, he has always been the Son of God because he was eternally begotten by the Father (and he has always been the Son).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hypostatic-union.html

Question: "What is the hypostatic union?"

Answer: The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus’ two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus’ humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6, 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus’ actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as human beings with finite minds, should not expect to totally comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1, 14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being in order to identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever.

 

[Noose]

Keep drinking your Kool-aid, bud.

I think you're the one who told me that your theology was weird when I first talked to you, and so weird that it frightened even you.

Study the phrase hypostatic union. It is well-accepted that Jesus was both God and man.

Denying the true deity and the true humanity of Jesus are rank heresies.

I would disagree with one statement in this explanation, but it is pretty good. This is the statement I disagree with: " Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit." It's a true statement in one sense, but not in another because Jesus has always been the Son of God through eternal begettal. He became the "son of God" in one sense at the Incarnation, but in another sense, he has always been the Son of God because he was eternally begotten by the Father (and he has always been the Son).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hypostatic-union.html

Question: "What is the hypostatic union?"

Answer: The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus’ two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus’ humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6, 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus’ actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as human beings with finite minds, should not expect to totally comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1, 14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being in order to identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever.

If it is well accepted outside the bible then there's no point of holding it as truth.

Let's look at one of your proposals:

Jesus has always been God - John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Well, everyone was before Abraham only that you don't understand:

Job 38:
4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its foundations set,
or who laid its cornerstone,b
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Q. So where are these other sons of God apart from Jesus who rejoiced when God created the earth?

My theology is weird only because what is considered normal is itself weird, but who understands?!

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

If it is well accepted outside the bible then there's no point of holding it as truth.

Let's look at one of your proposals:

Jesus has always been God - John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Well, everyone was before Abraham only that you don't understand:

Job 38:
4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its foundations set,
or who laid its cornerstone,b
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Q. So where are these other sons of God apart from Jesus who rejoiced when God created the earth?

My theology is weird only because what is considered normal is itself weird, but who understands?!

Noose,
What's "normal" is all messed up. It's also a limited perspective that we have.
Our "flesh" -meaning our human mind and emotions always rebels against The Spirit. That's why it's dying.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. What were you expecting from an almighty, omnipotent & omniscient creator?
Someone you could fathom? We have to get to know him. Not who we think he is but who he knows himself to be.
Does John 14 help at all?

Verses 10 & 11
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;

 

[Noose]

Noose,
What's "normal" is all messed up. It's also a limited perspective that we have.
Our "flesh" -meaning our human mind and emotions always rebels against The Spirit. That's why it's dying.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. What were you expecting from an almighty, omnipotent & omniscient creator?
Someone you could fathom? We have to get to know him. Not who we think he is but who he knows himself to be.
Does John 14 help at all?

Verses 10 & 11
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;

It helps a little but then it complicates things when Jesus says the Father lives in Him; it means the idea of three distinct persons in the Godhead is out of the window because Jesus and all that's in Him makes only one person, not two or three.

But i think we are walking on a very thin line when we regard Jesus in certain ways because of this:

Exo 20:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a
4You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens above, on the earth beneath, or in the waters below.

Deut 4:15So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful 16that you do not act corruptly and make an idol for yourselves of any form or shape, whether in the likeness of a male or female,

Col 1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Believe it or not, we are having a conundrum here.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

It helps a little but then it complicates things when Jesus says the Father lives in Him; it means the idea of three distinct persons in the Godhead is out of the window because Jesus and all that's in Him makes only one person, not two or three.

But i think we are walking on a very thin line when we regard Jesus in certain ways because of this:

Exo 20:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a
4You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens above, on the earth beneath, or in the waters below.

Deut 4:15So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful 16that you do not act corruptly and make an idol for yourselves of any form or shape, whether in the likeness of a male or female,

Col 1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Believe it or not, we are having a conundrum here.

It's OK, we haven't made an idol of Jesus. It's impossible for God himself to be an idol.
This is nothing to worry about.

You know this verse don't you?
Genesis 1:27

"So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. "

 

[Noose]

It's OK, we haven't made an idol of Jesus. It's impossible for God himself to be an idol.
This is nothing to worry about.

You know this verse don't you?
Genesis 1:27

"So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. "

Correct but man is not to make/create or have the image of God, to worship as if God.

You remember this verse:

2 Cor 5:16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

So what does this mean?

 

[Lambs_Wife]

Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our >>>God is one LORD<<<:

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our >>>God is one Lord<<<:

Eph 4:5 One Lord

Act_10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by >>>Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)<<<

Joh_20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, >>>My Lord and my God<<<.

Never, ever argue against the Word of God using creeds or men's carnal 'logic' teachings.

Job_5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Correct but man is not to make/create or have the image of God, to worship as if God.

You remember this verse:

2 Cor 5:16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

So what does this mean?

It means we should no longer judge things by the sinful fleshy nature but by the new Spirit God has put in us.


10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our >>>God is one LORD<<<:

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our >>>God is one Lord<<<:

Eph 4:5 One Lord

Act_10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by >>>Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)<<<

Joh_20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, >>>My Lord and my God<<<.

Never, ever argue against the Word of God using creeds or men's carnal 'logic' teachings.

Job_5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Hallelujah! One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Noose]

It means we should no longer judge things by the sinful fleshy nature but by the new Spirit God has put in us.


10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Regarding Jesus in the flesh is about everything that Trinity stands for and it violates that 1st command because, you have the image of God (a man) to worship him/it.

Regarding Jesus in the spirit, means worshiping God in spirit and truth. It doesn't involve calculations about three persons in one and who among them you choose to worship or pray to. Consider infants, they know God because they love and not hate, they know nothing about trinity and:

Mat 18:3“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

It helps a little but then it complicates things when Jesus says the Father lives in Him; it means the idea of three distinct persons in the Godhead is out of the window because Jesus and all that's in Him makes only one person, not two or three.

But i think we are walking on a very thin line when we regard Jesus in certain ways because of this:

Exo 20:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a
4You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens above, on the earth beneath, or in the waters below.

Deut 4:15So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful 16that you do not act corruptly and make an idol for yourselves of any form or shape, whether in the likeness of a male or female,

Col 1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Believe it or not, we are having a conundrum here.

No, we are not.

Christianity teaches that the three Persons of the Triune God mutually indwell one another.

This is what is meant by one God. Co-essentiality is a biblical teaching.

I am in the Father, and the Father is in me (John 14:11).

There is nothing incoherent concerning the Trinity doctrine. The incoherency is within the anti-Trinitarian world. Apparently they are incapable of looking at all the biblical facts, and the language of the confessions, and arriving at the conclusion that the Trinity is true.

Just like the vain, prideful cultist leader that I followed, he thought he knew more, and everyone else was wrong, anti-Trinitarians insist that they are the ones who are correct, and everyone else is wrong.

Well, the reality is that they are wrong, but simply are incapable of admitting it. They are incapable of understanding the biblical facts surrounding the doctrine of the Trinity, as to arrive at a correct understanding.

And, they want to perpetuate this idea that they represent the true faith, and everyone else does not. It makes them feel special. It is called elitism.

It would be amusing if they weren't misleading others into their foolishness.

 

[Noose]

No, we are not.

Christianity teaches that the three Persons of the Triune God mutually indwell one another.

This is what is meant by one God. Co-essentiality is a biblical teaching.

I am in the Father, and the Father is in me (John 14:11).

There is nothing incoherent concerning the Trinity doctrine. The incoherency is within the anti-Trinitarian world. Apparently they are incapable of looking at all the biblical facts, and the language of the confessions, and arriving at the conclusion that the Trinity is true.

Just like the vain, prideful cultist leader that I followed, he thought he knew more, and everyone else was wrong, anti-Trinitarians insist that they are the ones who are correct, and everyone else is wrong.

Well, the reality is that they are wrong, but simply are incapable of admitting it. They are incapable of understanding the biblical facts surrounding the doctrine of the Trinity, as to arrive at a correct understanding.

And, they want to perpetuate this idea that they represent the true faith, and everyone else does not. It makes them feel special. It is called elitism.

It would be amusing if they weren't misleading others into their foolishness.

Focus.

So how many persons was Jesus? Is it three persons or just one?

 

[Lambs_Wife]

Hallelujah! One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Yes, Hallelujah! The Lord/ Jesus/ Christ = Father/Son/Holy Spirit;

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the >>>NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit<<<

What is that NAME?

Act 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the >>>NAME of Jesus Christ<<< unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God is One Person, His Name is Jesus.

Perfect

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

No, we are not.

Christianity teaches that the three Persons of the Triune God mutually indwell one another.

This is what is meant by one God. Co-essentiality is a biblical teaching.

I am in the Father, and the Father is in me (John 14:11).

There is nothing incoherent concerning the Trinity doctrine. The incoherency is within the anti-Trinitarian world. Apparently they are incapable of looking at all the biblical facts, and the language of the confessions, and arriving at the conclusion that the Trinity is true.

Just like the vain, prideful cultist leader that I followed, he thought he knew more, and everyone else was wrong, anti-Trinitarians insist that they are the ones who are correct, and everyone else is wrong.

Well, the reality is that they are wrong, but simply are incapable of admitting it. They are incapable of understanding the biblical facts surrounding the doctrine of the Trinity, as to arrive at a correct understanding.

And, they want to perpetuate this idea that they represent the true faith, and everyone else does not. It makes them feel special. It is called elitism.

It would be amusing if they weren't misleading others into their foolishness.

Keep contending for the faith...👍

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yes, Hallelujah! The Lord/ Jesus/ Christ = Father/Son/Holy Spirit;

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the >>>NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit<<<

What is that NAME?

Act 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the >>>NAME of Jesus Christ<<< unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God is One Person, His Name is Jesus.

Perfect

God is one Being, three Persons. You can’t baptize in the nane of the Father, if the Son, and Holy Spirit is He is one Person.