Why Wasn't A Law Given By Which One Could Be Righteous?

[posthuman]

One simple question. Was Psalm 119 Yahshua praying?

Before I was afflicted I went astray,​

but now I obey your word.
(Psalm 119:67)
​

​

you tell me

 

[Judges1318]

29“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. - Acts 2:29-31

 

[Judges1318]

does Christ need to be saved?

I think you're over thinking it.
The point is, he had to become a perfect High Priest to be a High Priest.
He demonstrated that perfection, the perfection His father worked in him through his suffering, and was appointed High Priest over the people of God.

"8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8-10

"28For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever." - Hebrews 7:28

Yeah, I know. It chaffs against everything the church teaches us, but there it is.

 

[posthuman]

This man who sweat blood in intense anxiety in the garden over what his father was asking him to endure and prayed that if there be another way let's do that instead.

this agony is for His disciples, not for Himself. He is a perfect man, not one like us. the law is not made for the righteous, but for the ungodly and sinful ((1 Timothy 1:9))

who then does God give that law to, and why?

 

[evyaniy]

does Christ need to be saved?

You did not answer my question but i will try to answer yours.

He died to save us, so yes, He needed to be saved. He asked His Father to save Him from death over and over throughout the Psalms. He was heard because of His righteousness and complete obedience to YAH's Law. Death had no claim on Him since He gave His life to save us as the Law required of Him.

His Father answered His prayers for Salvation and raised Him from the dead. So He was the firstborn saved from death because of what He did for us. Love for His Father and love for us.

 

[Judges1318]

Before I was afflicted I went astray,​

but now I obey your word. ​

(Psalm 119:67) ​

​

​

you tell me

Did Jesus have an age of accountability like the rest of us humans?

"The virgin d will conceive and give birth to a son, and e will call him Immanuel. f 15He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right " - Isaiah 7:15

I don't know. I'm just asking.

 

[evyaniy]

Not only that, but He fully took our sins upon Himself as if they were His own. He even confesses our sinfulness as if it were His in places. He Who knew no sin was made sin for us. He was cursed on the cross as Scripture and the Law says.

 

[Judges1318]

Death had no claim on Him since He gave His life to save us as the Law required of Him.

"24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

I thought the reason death could not hold him was because he had no sin.

 

[Judges1318]

this agony is for His disciples, not for Himself. He is a perfect man, not one like us. the law is not made for the righteous, but for the ungodly and sinful ((1 Timothy 1:9))

You have to keep 'the law not being for the righteous' in context. For Paul says elsewhere that faith upholds the law. The righteous uphold the law, so it's for them in that sense and context.

who then does God give that law to, and why?

Don't look at it that way.
It exists.....period. No matter who it was given to.
And it has more than one function.
In one context it is given for the whole world.
In another, it's given for the benefit of the Israelites.

 

[Judges1318]

this agony is for His disciples, not for Himself. He is a perfect man, not one like us.

Without revisiting that part of scripture I would have to say I see it as his personal agony for the death he is about to endure.

"7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." - Hebrews 5:7

"fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." - Hebrews 2:17-18

 

[evyaniy]

"24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

I thought the reason death could not hold him was because he had no sin.

In order to completely obey the Law, He had to give His life to save us. He had said that the greatest commandments were to love YAH above all and your neighbor as yourself.

To love YAH above all He had to give His life for our salvation because YAH so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have Eternal life.

To love His neighbor as Himself He had to offer His sinless life to save us because we could not save ourselves.

 

[Judges1318]

"fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." - Hebrews 2:17-18

See, if His agony in the garden wasn't his personal agony for himself that kind of nullifies the scripture above.

 

[Judges1318]

In order to completely obey the Law, He had to give His life to save us. He had said that the greatest commandments were to love YAH above all and your neighbor as yourself.

To love YAH above all He had to give His life for our salvation because YAH so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have Eternal life.

To love His neighbor as Himself He had to offer His sinless life to save us because we could not save ourselves.

I see it.
Part of being sinless, and therefore death having no hold over him, was to die a sacrifice of love in obedience to the Father.

 

[posthuman]

I think you're over thinking it.

just asking because whoever is praying Psalm 119 is someone praying to receive salvation.

May your unfailing love come to me, Lord,​

your salvation, according to your promise
(Psalm 119:41)
​

My soul faints with longing for your salvation,​

but I have put my hope in your word.
(Psalm 119:81)
​

My eyes fail, looking for your salvation,​

looking for your righteous promise.
(Psalm 119:123)​

​

I call out to you; save me​

and I will keep your statutes.
(Psalm 119:146)
​

Defend my cause and redeem me;​

preserve my life according to your promise.
(Psalm 119:154)
​

I wait for your salvation, Lord,​

and I follow your commands.
(Psalm 119:166)
​

I long for your salvation, Lord,​

and your law gives me delight.
(Psalm 119:174)

​

i mean, that's obvious, reading it, isn't it?
so obvious question -- what is salvation? we know that one, right? of course we do! we're Christians! salvation is our bread and butter; we are experts among people. in fact i probably don't even have to explain.
but one thing let's mention - what kind of person needs salvation?
someone who has sin, right? they need to be saved from the damnation they incur against a holy God.

I have strayed like a lost sheep.​

Seek your servant,​

for I have not forgotten your commands.
(Psalm 119:176)
​

that's an interesting word, 'strayed' -- kinda like the people wandering in the wilderness who were supposed to be on the path to the promised land. lost, needing to be rescued and redeemed.
that's one word that's translated 'strayed' in this song; taah -- i don't know Hebrew but the dictionary says it means to err, deceive/mislead, be deceived/misled or wander (from the right way). whoever is praying Psalm 119, they close the song with this statement. that they are deceived, that they stray from the path, that they do wrong.

interestingly there's another word translated as 'stray' in Psalm 119

Before I was afflicted I went astray:
but now have I kept thy word.
(Psalm 119:67)
​

this word is shagag -- again, i don't know Hebrew, but that's the same word here, in the Law:

And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
(Numbers 15:27-28)
​

so whoever is praying Psalm 119 is guilty of sinning in ignorance. in the context of the song, now we know what he or she means by "afflicted" - having received the commands - which is great, because it brings us back to the OP subject: why was this law given which cannot impart life or righteousness? is it the psalmists's faith in God that is rewarded with life or is the atoning sacrifice a priest made for the psalmist to atone for his sins in ignorance before he received the law?


you think that's overthinking it?
maybe. but i think i'd rather overthink than under
so, thanks!

 

[posthuman]

See, if His agony in the garden wasn't his personal agony for himself that kind of nullifies the scripture above.

is a person who agonizes for themselves engaged in trusting God or in doubting God while they do so?

 

[posthuman]

He gave His life to save us as the Law required of Him.

the law requires you to die?
where?

 

[posthuman]

Don't look at it that way.
It exists.....period. No matter who it was given to.
And it has more than one function.
In one context it is given for the whole world.
In another, it's given for the benefit of the Israelites.

um, don't know if you read the title of the thread you're replying to, but 'looking at it that way' is exactly the topic.
in fact, you say "it has more than one function" -- well friend, you're "looking at it that way" -- because "that way" you're telling me not to look is to ask what is the function of the law. so why are you talking about the function of the law if one shouldn't think about the function of the law?

 

[evyaniy]

Did Jesus have an age of accountability like the rest of us humans?

"The virgin d will conceive and give birth to a son, and e will call him Immanuel. f 15He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right " - Isaiah 7:15

I don't know. I'm just asking.

The word translated went astray can also be translated wandered. He was disciplined and afflicted to the point of death. He learned and grew like all of us yet without sin.

In the last section of Psalm 119 He says something similar.

169 TAU. Let My cry come near before thee, O YHVH: give Me understanding according to Thy Word. 170 Let My supplication come before thee: deliver Me according to Thy Word. 171 My lips shall utter praise, when Thou hast taught Me Thy statutes. 172 My tongue shall speak of Thy Word: for all Thy commandments are righteousness. 173 Let Thine hand help Me; for I have chosen Thy precepts. 174 I have longed for Thy salvation, O YHVH; and Thy law is My delight. 175 Let My Soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help Me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Thy Servant; for I do not forget Thy commandments.

Look what this section teaches us if we accept it is Yahshua praying. He asks His Father to give Him understanding. He asks to be delivered. He acknowledges teaches Him His statutes. He asks for help. The Law is His delight. He asks for life so He may praise YAH. When He suffered for our sins He was like a lost sheep. He asked YAH to seek Him because He did not forget His commandments. He was pleading His obedience to be saved.

YAH kept His promise and raised Him from the dead.

 

[evyaniy]

I see it.
Part of being sinless, and therefore death having no hold over him, was to die a sacrifice of love in obedience to the Father.

Yes. clearly said. that is what i was trying to say but not doing very well. thank you.

 

[posthuman]

"24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

I thought the reason death could not hold him was because he had no sin.

i think because

In Him was life; and The Life was the light of men.
(John 1:14)
​