Are gentiles ever Israel?

Blik · Mar 1, 2020

You have often posted that some scriptures were given to Israel not gentiles, I had hoped you would post your viewpoint. I am sure it is based on scripture and worth listening to.

As far as bible interpretation, I believe that often the original Hebrew is sometimes almost impossible to translate so I look for biblical scholars who know Hebrew. Even that gets difficult because scripture is centuries old and word meanings change. They change in all languages when culture changes. It wasn't long ago that you would be thought very strange if you said you were buying a new mouse.

Whispered · Mar 1, 2020

Blik said:

That the nations are all part of Gods plan come to fruition in the fulfillment of prophecy as witnessed in the New Covenant/Testament, there is no longer a separation of Gods words unto Israel.
Remember Saul/Paul's writing? We are all one in Christ. There is no longer Jew nor Gentile....
Therefore, as Gods plan came to fruition as He planned, segregation no longer exists in the Words of our Father. The nations are grafted into "Israel". Separatist Theology is not of God. Nor is Replacement Theology. We are one. One fold, in one God.

...Israel meaning
For a meaning of the name Israel, NOBSE Study Bible Name List, BDB Theological Dictionary and Alfred Jones (Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names) unanimously go with the verb שרה of which the meaning is unsure. Undeterred, NOBSE reads God Strives, and BDB proposes El Persisteth or El Persevereth.
Alfred Jones figures that the mysterious verb שרה might very well mean "to be princely," and assumes that the name Israel consists of a future form of this verb, which hence would mean to become princely. And so Jones interprets the name Israel with He Will Be Prince With God.
Here at Abarim Publications, our contention is that the mystery verb שרה doesn't mean struggle at all, but rather reflects an ability to retain what normally is fluidic.
The history of Israel is of course not the religious history of some elite race but rather the history of information technology within the larger history of science. It tells of the world-wide effort to understand the natural world (Romans 1:20, 1 Kings 4:33) and to store data in symbols, starting with nouns and names (Genesis 2:19; see our article on the noun ονομα, onoma). The latter effort in turn culminated in the development of the Aramaic Hebraic alphabet, which in the Bible is told as the building of the "Temple of YHWH" by Solomon and Hiram. In the New Testament this Temple became known as the Word in the Flesh, "in whom are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:3).
Our guess: Israel means He Retains God, or slightly more elaborate: He Has Become A Receptacle In Which God Can Be Received And Retained. This most primary Biblical concept was obviously revisited in the story of the manger in which the Word was received.
Pretty awesome name.

Rondonmon · Mar 2, 2020

Blik said:

Not so much brother. It means God forsook Israel because of their UNBELIEF, as a Nation, not as human beings, thus they were blinded only IN PART.

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. {Until the Church is Raptured}

In other words, because of Israel's sin, God TOOK THE MANTLE from the Jews and gave it unto the Gentiles, that mantle was the Word of God, that Mantle was taking the Gospel unto the ends of the earth. The Jewish peoples would have eventually wrested the Gospel message away from the Disciples and subverted it like they did Judaism !! So God decided to make Israel as Dead Men's Bones and FORSAKE THEM for nigh 2000 years as a NATION ONLY, not as individuals, God would never turn away those who come unto Him by faith and offer to live for Him. So God forsook Israel until 1948, and we know this via the Prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bones.

Reread Romans chapters 9-11 and knowing all this it now becomes crystal clear. God is THE POTTER Paul says, so he does as He wills with the Potters Wheel. And he decided to take the Mantle away from Israel and give it to the Gentiles, and it will remain that way until the time of the Gentiles are come full {Rapture} then Israel will be given the Mantle once again, Jesus will return and Rule from Jerusalem as the King of the Jews. Amen. Paul tells the Romans not to boast, he tells them God will one day graft Israel back into the family AS A NATION, all Jews as we speak can come unto Christ just like any other person, but they are not God's vehicle to reach the world, at this time the Gentile Churches are indeed that vehicle.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:{NOT EVERY Jew, but Israel AS A NATION is saved} as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rom:11 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

We know this above happens via the scriptures, Israel AS A NATION, is saved because they Repent {1/3 repent, SEE Zechariah 13:8-9} and then they Flee Judea unto Petra. The 2/3 that do not repent are not saved. Not many people find the way brother, narrow is the way. Only a few Messianic Jews are in the world today, but if you look at the world population, I would say only 1 Billion out of 8 Billion are true Christians, there are supposed to be 2 billion Christians but my guess is at least half of them have no part of God in them at all. So 1 out of 8 men are not of God, therefore the Jews being blinded are more in line with most of the world brother, Nations just don't serve God in this world, Satan is over all these Nations, that is what he told Jesus in Luke 4, all these Kingdoms are his to do as he so pleases with.

So God only FORSOOK Israel as a collective entity. or as a Nation He favored, He did not forsake any Jew on earth, He accepts ALL MEN, God desires ALL MEN to come unto him, we know that via the scriptures, He doesn't want to lose one man. So God blinded them as a Nation collectively, He did not want the Jews subverting the Gospel of Jesus, so he took the mantle away from them and gave it unto the Gentile Church, but all Jews as individuals came come unto Christ. God then delivers THE NATION Israel, even though its only 1/3, its still God stepping in and bringing them back unto Him. He does so via the Two-witnesses.

75 days before the Beast Conquers Israel at the 1260, God sends the Two-witnesses {1335} to turn Israel back unto God {SEE Malachi 4:5-6}. Thus the 1/3 who repent, understand that they must Flee at the 1290 event, which happens 30 days BEFORE the 1260 Event. Its the False Prophet {Jewish High Priest} taking the SACRIFICE {Jesus} away or forbidding Jesus Worship in the Temple, or maybe even in all Jerusalem. Then he erects the AoD in a place where it ought not stand as Jesus said. That is THE SIGN for the Jews to Flee Judea brother. I love the Jewish peoples. I am showing what will actually happen, others like to be REPLACEMENT TYPES, that is not me. God has His own ways brother.

God Bless............

Blik · Mar 2, 2020

Rondonmon said:

Not so much brother. It means God forsook Israel because of their UNBELIEF, as a Nation, not as human beings, thus they were blinded only IN PART.

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. {Until the Church is Raptured}

In other words, because of Israel's sin, God TOOK THE MANTLE from the Jews and gave it unto the Gentiles, that mantle was the Word of God, that Mantle was taking the Gospel unto the ends of the earth. The Jewish peoples would have eventually wrested the Gospel message away from the Disciples and subverted it like they did Judaism !! So God decided to make Israel as Dead Men's Bones and FORSAKE THEM for nigh 2000 years as a NATION ONLY, not as individuals, God would never turn away those who come unto Him by faith and offer to live for Him. So God forsook Israel until 1948, and we know this via the Prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bones.

Reread Romans chapters 9-11 and knowing all this it now becomes crystal clear. God is THE POTTER Paul says, so he does as He wills with the Potters Wheel. And he decided to take the Mantle away from Israel and give it to the Gentiles, and it will remain that way until the time of the Gentiles are come full {Rapture} then Israel will be given the Mantle once again, Jesus will return and Rule from Jerusalem as the King of the Jews. Amen. Paul tells the Romans not to boast, he tells them God will one day graft Israel back into the family AS A NATION, all Jews as we speak can come unto Christ just like any other person, but they are not God's vehicle to reach the world, at this time the Gentile Churches are indeed that vehicle.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:{NOT EVERY Jew, but Israel AS A NATION is saved} as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rom:11 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

We know this above happens via the scriptures, Israel AS A NATION, is saved because they Repent {1/3 repent, SEE Zechariah 13:8-9} and then they Flee Judea unto Petra. The 2/3 that do not repent are not saved. Not many people find the way brother, narrow is the way. Only a few Messianic Jews are in the world today, but if you look at the world population, I would say only 1 Billion out of 8 Billion are true Christians, there are supposed to be 2 billion Christians but my guess is at least half of them have no part of God in them at all. So 1 out of 8 men are not of God, therefore the Jews being blinded are more in line with most of the world brother, Nations just don't serve God in this world, Satan is over all these Nations, that is what he told Jesus in Luke 4, all these Kingdoms are his to do as he so pleases with.

So God only FORSOOK Israel as a collective entity. or as a Nation He favored, He did not forsake any Jew on earth, He accepts ALL MEN, God desires ALL MEN to come unto him, we know that via the scriptures, He doesn't want to lose one man. So God blinded them as a Nation collectively, He did not want the Jews subverting the Gospel of Jesus, so he took the mantle away from them and gave it unto the Gentile Church, but all Jews as individuals came come unto Christ. God then delivers THE NATION Israel, even though its only 1/3, its still God stepping in and bringing them back unto Him. He does so via the Two-witnesses.

75 days before the Beast Conquers Israel at the 1260, God sends the Two-witnesses {1335} to turn Israel back unto God {SEE Malachi 4:5-6}. Thus the 1/3 who repent, understand that they must Flee at the 1290 event, which happens 30 days BEFORE the 1260 Event. Its the False Prophet {Jewish High Priest} taking the SACRIFICE {Jesus} away or forbidding Jesus Worship in the Temple, or maybe even in all Jerusalem. Then he erects the AoD in a place where it ought not stand as Jesus said. That is THE SIGN for the Jews to Flee Judea brother. I love the Jewish peoples. I am showing what will actually happen, others like to be REPLACEMENT TYPES, that is not me. God has His own ways brother.

God Bless............

Interesting post. It is difficult for humans to read scripture, for we have to think of what is said through the Holy Spirit, not our fleshly minds without God in it.

You are speaking of the nation of Israel and the post is speaking of Israel that includes all people who have accepted God as their God and themselves as belonging to Him. They are two different Israels.

Rondonmon · Mar 2, 2020

Blik said:

Except I don't think all people are considered Israel because they BELIVE, I think they are blessed by Faithful Abraham, but they are still the Gentile Church and Israel are Israel. We are all Grafted into one family tree via BELIEVING God, its that simple.

God Raptures the Gentile Church {with a few Messianic Jews, Paul, John and Peter among others} and then he delivers on his promises to Abraham to always have a seed. So BOTH Jews and Gentiles are in the Rapture and BOTH Jews and Gentiles come unto Christ AFTER the Rapture. We are all ONE AND THE SAME in that we must all come to God by FAITH ALONE.

Which is why I can't understand some who say Jesus just shows up at the end and SAVES the Jewish peoples, no, they MUST REPENT before the 70th week ends. Malachi 4:5-6 says they repent BEFORE the DOTL {1260 Event} and this is how they know to Flee Judea.

Well, God Bess brother.

SoulWeaver · Mar 2, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

Some have been involved, joining in by faith from the beginning. Book of Ruth - one doesn't get much more Israelite than being a part of actual Messianic bloodline, no?

iamsoandso · Mar 3, 2020

Blik said:

Consider this,,,

Noah ,Shem Ham and Japheth ect. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9&version=KJV revived an covenant. These were not Israel but instead the nations came from them.

But there are multiple covenants made with mankind,,,,the nations,Abraham Israel ect. and also additional covenants made with Israel https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+29&version=KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+31&version=KJV

You should ask yourself which one of these covenants you are under in Gods eyes or if he said he would make an new covenant with Israel and/or if he said he was going to make an new covenant with the gentiles. In short if you are not Israel then you should look to see if he said he would make another covenant with the gentiles other than the one in Genesis 9.

Blik · Mar 3, 2020

Rondonmon said:

When you speak to anyone you think of their characteristics. You don't converse with a very young child in the same way you do with an old man as an extreme example. It is the same with God. To converse with the Lord you listen to Him as God with His characteristics as we learn about them in Psalms. God created man and thinks of us as humans. There were no Jews and gentiles for hundred's of years, man was just humans. To God we are still just humans, Jews were special only because God created them to do special work for Him. God wanted them to separate themselves from gentiles only because if they socialized with gentiles they would be led to live as they lived and wouldn't learn God's way of living. The orders to eat apart from gentiles and to be fleshly circumcised kept them apart, but they were never God's laws in themselves, only to guide them to God's laws.

When Christ came and gentiles began to accept Christ and Father God took these laws of Moses away, not from Jews and gentiles as separate in His eyes but from everyone. The Jews were using the laws of Moses as these custom for Jews were called as true obedience to God's laws and thought of them as if they were the entire obedience.

God relates to man as humans, not as Jews and gentiles.

garee · Mar 3, 2020

Rondonmon said:

Words have meaning attached in order to serve a specific reason.

Adding new meaning to a word can destroy as in this case the intent of the author Christ. .And violate the commandment not to. (Deuteronomy 4:3)

Israel is defined as those born again. Mankind as those who do wrestle against flesh and blood of mankind and overcome because the have Emanuel .God with them .

Doctrines begin by defining words.

The question is why did he change the name of his born again bride from isral to Cjristian . The name sems befiiting. that God named her.

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Genesis 32 :24-25

As Jacob who previously did wrestle against flesh and blood and did not over come .Giving rise to the meaning of the name deceiver.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

All of the disciples were called Christian. No division in the body in that way . Division come by doctrine not color of flesh and blood.

Some teach the name Christian that the father named us which means without adding new meaning.; "Residents of the city of Christ named after her founder Christ".

It seems to be appropriate. . the a bride named after a city. Some say it was derogatory to the Jew and therefore she was not named by the father.

JaumeJ · Mar 3, 2020

Rondonmon said:

Jesus, Yeshua, was not joking when He said we become children of Abraham. The Word is not false in saying we become "fellow heirs" with Israel.

It may surprise you in pursuing a quick study of the meanings of the words Jew and Israel. Also reading in Romans Paul's description ow what a true Jew is may open the eys wide. In some translations it is translating the word to praiser of God, but you would probably need to do a more extensive study of the two words and Paul's discourse, reading verions with Je or true Jew and praiser of God alike.

This is important tomebut not to being saved by grace in the Blood of Yeshua, Jesus….

Rondonmon · Mar 3, 2020

Blik said:

God loves all people the same, but He Promised Abraham a continual seed, and God married the Jewish people Himself, so they are His bride, I love all people, but my own bride I am partial unto. I think the scripture I quoted earlier shows they are SPECIAL to God.

Rom. 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Paul said the Jews are LOVED by the Father, even though they are against the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is what it is brother.

Dino246 · Mar 3, 2020

garee said:

Your entire post is adding to words new meanings not found in Scripture.

Rondonmon · Mar 3, 2020

JaumeJ said:

We all come by FAITH.........The Gentiles remain Gentiles and Jews remain Jews. God deals with all who come unto Him, but He deals with Israel as a Nation DURING the 70th after the Church has been Raptured. You thinking that makes them DIFFERENT is on you brother, you see Abraham came unto God BY FAITH ALONE, likewise we come to Christ by FAITH ALONE. Likewise, after the Rapture, both Gentiles who were not Raptured and the Jews who do not know God must either come to God/Christ/Messiah BY FAITH ALONE or they will perish, so that means everyone is the same, on both sides of the Rapture both Jews and Gentiles come unto Christ/God by Faith. That means THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE, God just chooses to send Elijah to preach Christ Crucified during the 70th week, and He thus turns their hearts back unto Him again.

The TIMING doesn't mean ANYTHING is different. We must ALL still come by FAITH ALONE. God doesn't care about the timing.

garee · Mar 3, 2020

bojack said:

Not all Israel is Israel .

garee · Mar 3, 2020

Dino246 said:

I have heard that before .

Did you try and mix faith?

Which one? apostle, faith, prophecy, teacher, spiritual gifts, parables, sign gifts, we do not need men to teach us as the warning of spirit of the antichrists ..etc

It would seem you forget the author of scripture set up laws to protect the intergrtiy of His living abiding word .Change the meaning of one word it can change the whole doctrine of God by the father of lies who turns things upside down inspired earthly of the devil. the goal of the commandment verse 6.

You could call it the protector of faith as prophecy. And not after signs according to the law of signs. Signs or walking by sight are for those who believe not (no faith)

Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.Your eyes have seen what the Lord did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the Lord thy God hath destroyed them from among you. But ye that did cleave unto the Lord your God are alive every one of you this day. Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. Deuterommy 4:2-6

The warning not to add to the whole or perfect or subtract is found in the last chapter of the book of prophecy. The bible as the the Tongue of God. Together the warnings kept the integrity down through the ages .Just like today. Change the meaning of one word sacrifice the whole council of God.

JaumeJ · Mar 3, 2020

Rondonmon said:

There is One God, One Husband One Bride. We know Him in the OT and we know Him in the NT There will not be two wedding feasts come the Kingdom, One Wedding Feast.

Blik · Mar 3, 2020

garee said:

Words have meaning attached in order to serve a specific reason.

Adding new meaning to a word can destroy as in this case the intent of the author Christ. .And violate the commandment not to. (Deuteronomy 4:3)

Israel is defined as those born again. Mankind as those who do wrestle against flesh and blood of mankind and overcome because the have Emanuel .God with them .

Doctrines begin by defining words.

The question is why did he change the name of his born again bride from isral to Cjristian . The name sems befiiting. that God named her.

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Genesis 32 :24-25

As Jacob who previously did wrestle against flesh and blood and did not over come .Giving rise to the meaning of the name deceiver.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

All of the disciples were called Christian. No division in the body in that way . Division come by doctrine not color of flesh and blood.

Some teach the name Christian that the father named us which means without adding new meaning.; "Residents of the city of Christ named after her founder Christ".

It seems to be appropriate. . the a bride named after a city. Some say it was derogatory to the Jew and therefore she was not named by the father.

Scripture uses the word Israel in two separate ways, one is speaking of the nation of Israel and the other is speaking of spiritual Israel. We are to look at the context to determine which way that verse speaks of Israel.

Dino246 · Mar 3, 2020

garee said:

I have heard that before .

Did you try and mix faith?

Which one? apostle, faith, prophecy, teacher, spiritual gifts, parables, sign gifts, we do not need men to teach us as the warning of spirit of the antichrists ..etc

It would seem you forget the author of scripture set up laws to protect the intergrtiy of His living abiding word .Change the meaning of one word it can change the whole doctrine of God by the father of lies who turns things upside down inspired earthly of the devil. the goal of the commandment verse 6.

You could call it the protector of faith as prophecy. And not after signs according to the law of signs. Signs or walking by sight are for those who believe not (no faith)

Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.Your eyes have seen what the Lord did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the Lord thy God hath destroyed them from among you. But ye that did cleave unto the Lord your God are alive every one of you this day. Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. Deuterommy 4:2-6

The warning not to add to the whole or perfect or subtract is found in the last chapter of the book of prophecy. The bible as the the Tongue of God. Together the warnings kept the integrity down through the ages .Just like today. Change the meaning of one word sacrifice the whole council of God.

You didn't even begin to consider the content of my post. You ignored it and repeated the same irrelevant blather.

7seasrekeyed · Mar 3, 2020

bud62 said:

God does not bless as He sees fit

what does that even mean

our minds are no longer corrupted if we are in Christ Jesus...unless of course a person is a Christian in mouth only

we renew our minds according to the word...the Bible

your God bless as He sees fit, sounds more like I hope you get yours

garee · Mar 4, 2020

Dino246 said:

Again which words am I adding to words new meanings not found in Scripture? You made the claim.

Are gentiles ever Israel?

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