Oneness or trinity, Is Jesus God or man?

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#221
Jul 31, 2013
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#221
watcher2013 said:
So his divine self...left the human self to die..at the hour of death...

Selfish divine nature.
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In your opinion it was at the moment of birth? Why would you call one selfish and not the other?

I don't think it's either. I think, what happens when the light of life meets the darkness of death? Light wins, and shadows are dispelled.
He died, and death could not contain Him, but was defeated
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#222
Aug 6, 2013
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#222
garee said:
Christian can deceive other Christians .We must search the scriptures daily to see if it is so. The daily bread needed to do His will.
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you are right..That is why you have to verify with scriptures every statement. not by emotion and accusation.
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#224
Aug 6, 2013
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#224
kaylagrl said:
John 10 - I and the Father are one.
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Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one

This is the problem when you based your belief in one verse...
1. Father is greater than all
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
why did they said this....
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

vs. 36. Because Jesus said "I am the Son of God"...the same thing when he called God his father..making him equal with God...
(The Word was with God and WAS God...and philippians 2, He was in form of God and equal with God)
BUT ThAT WAS....HE BECAME FLESH..... What became to you? is it still the previous one?

now the Father and I are one because...Jesus do the works he see the Father do.

kaylagrl said:
John 8 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.
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I am in agreement the in the Beginning was Word....

John 10- I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
see above comment

John said "18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

From the same writer....Whoever confess that Jesus is (GOD????) the Son of God....The same writer who emphasize the word of Jesus..the one true God..even the Father.


Is 44- Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Again in agreement the Word was God.

Acts 4 Peter says -
It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is
“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’[a]
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Who give the name above every name..read hebrews..

Matt. 28-And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Who gave the authority.....
Mark 2-“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

The Son also has the power to forgive sin

So according to you Jesus was a fraud and a liar. He was killed because He claimed to be God.
He did not claimed to be God..He said he is the Son of God...
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#225
Aug 6, 2013
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#225
Absolutely said:
The problem you will not be able to cunningly reframe is the deity of Jesus.

IOW who he is.
Not your perception of Him,but WHO He is.
If he is deity then he is eternal past and future.

....and He is.

In hebrews it says that the Father declares over the Son "thy throne o God is Forever and ever"

There is no clever way around what is declared.
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Let us discuss hebrews 1:

God The father and Christ the Son
vs.1 -2 God Talked Through Son
God appoint , Son appointed

vs.3 God Invisible , Son express image of invisible
vs. 4 God always God , Son made better than angels and more excellent name than angels
vs. 5 God Father , son begotten by Father
vs. 6-7 God angels worship , God command angels to worship Son
vs 8-9 God anoint , Son anointed.....
I hope you get the point...In hebrews 1 if you changed "God" too Father...you will see it clearly.
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#226
Aug 6, 2013
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#226
Nehemiah6 said:
No. Indeed no one can be saved unless he or she believes that Jesus is GOD. That is exactly what Christ said. Only God as the Man Christ Jesus could take away the sin of the world. And only the blood of Christ can cleanse the soul.
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Read acts...10...cornelius house...
Peter statement always...the Jesus is the Son of god...An immortal being had to become man to Die....
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#227
Aug 6, 2013
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#227
posthuman said:
The fact you are calling God selfish ought to be a big whopping clue that you've got some wrong ideas you're working from.

Death couldn't hold Him. He laid down His life and took it up again. He is made priest by the power of an indestructible life.



He is THE Life. Stronger than death.
The death of the body doesn't show anyone isn't immortal; it shows the body isn't. And guess what? He rose up, bodily, with no corruption in His flesh. No decay.

The soldiers at the cross - not people unfamiliar with death - saw how He died and said surely this is the Son of God.
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I am calling your idea of Jesus divine nature leaving the human nature at the hour of death..a selfish act,

Even the soldiers said..This is the Son of God....not this is God...
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#228
Aug 6, 2013
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#228
posthuman said:
In your opinion it was at the moment of birth? Why would you call one selfish and not the other?

I don't think it's either. I think, what happens when the light of life meets the darkness of death? Light wins, and shadows are dispelled.
He died, and death could not contain Him, but was defeated
Click to expand...
Fact..Jesus died...
The word Became flesh...not immortal anymore...
GOD raised the mortal flesh..immortal.
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#229
Aug 6, 2013
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#229
Whispered said:
Jesus was/is God. I don't know where you are getting your Theology from.
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The Word was with God and was God...he was in the form of God/ equal to God...(equal means not the true one right, but the same)
then the Word became FLESH.....
From God form to human form....
from immortality to mortality
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#230
Aug 6, 2013
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#230
be back again...later..... may all of us be guided by the Spirit of truth...
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#232
Jul 31, 2013
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#232
watcher2013 said:
I am calling your idea of Jesus divine nature leaving the human nature at the hour of death..a selfish act,
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if abandoning divinity at the cross is selfish, then so is abandoning divinity at any time - including at incarnation.
you are saying this because you think 'God cannot die' proves Christ is not divine. but you say this because you think God cannot lose His immortality, while simultaneously think that God ceased to be God when He took on flesh, to wit, that He lost His immortality. you're self-contradictory, now arguing against the very thing you are arguing for.

if the scriptures teach us anything about mortality, it is that the death of the body is not the death of the soul. death is not cessation of existence. this is our very hope, resurrection, and the warning to all, after death, the judgement, and a second death. Christ didn't throw Himself into the lake of fire at the cross. Christ is The Resurrection and The Life - the one believing in Him and living will never die - though he die, he shall live. do you not believe this? The Life is not overcome by death; He has overcome it.
'God cannot die' proves that He will inevitably rise, not that He isn't divine. it proves that death has no power over Him, not that He cannot know it.

watcher2013 said:
Even the soldiers said..This is the Son of God....not this is God...
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Thomas said, He is God. Jesus replied, Thomas has believed.
why will you not accept the Lord's own testimony? why sooner believe that it's OK to worship a man or an angel than believe that the only Saviour is in fact the Saviour?

:cry:
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#233
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#233
Something to think about when trying to understand the difference of God and the oneness of God at the same time is that the feasts that God gives to help us understand His plan for us.

We are asked to celebrate and praise Him for each step of His plan for us except for celebrating the birth of Jesus as a man. Man made Christmas celebration for that, but God did not ask us to celebrate His earthly birth. The gospel of John starts by pointing out the Jesus is the word and that word was from the beginning.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#234
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#234
Whispered said:
You have a very unique POV. 😵
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it's called 'cognitive dissonance'

he says God, who was the Word, ceased to be immortal. his proof rationale is that God must have become mortal because God is immutably immortal. this is his argument: God cannot cease to be God, therefore God must have ceased to be God.
it's a nonsense POV.

Kayla cut the legs straight out from under his POV earlier with only two words:

kaylagrl said:
He LIVES
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#235
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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113
#235
Blik said:
Something to think about when trying to understand the difference of God and the oneness of God at the same time is that the feasts that God gives to help us understand His plan for us.

We are asked to celebrate and praise Him for each step of His plan for us except for celebrating the birth of Jesus as a man. Man made Christmas celebration for that, but God did not ask us to celebrate His earthly birth. The gospel of John starts by pointing out the Jesus is the word and that word was from the beginning.
Click to expand...
He gave His life for Pesach. many believe He was born during Booths.
man made Eostare. man made Christ-mass.

something to think about ;)
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#239
Aug 6, 2013
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#239
posthuman said:
if abandoning divinity at the cross is selfish, then so is abandoning divinity at any time - including at incarnation.
you are saying this because you think 'God cannot die' proves Christ is not divine. but you say this because you think God cannot lose His immortality, while simultaneously think that God ceased to be God when He took on flesh, to wit, that He lost His immortality. you're self-contradictory, now arguing against the very thing you are arguing for.

if the scriptures teach us anything about mortality, it is that the death of the body is not the death of the soul. death is not cessation of existence. this is our very hope, resurrection, and the warning to all, after death, the judgement, and a second death. Christ didn't throw Himself into the lake of fire at the cross. Christ is The Resurrection and The Life - the one believing in Him and living will never die - though he die, he shall live. do you not believe this? The Life is not overcome by death; He has overcome it.
'God cannot die' proves that He will inevitably rise, not that He isn't divine. it proves that death has no power over Him, not that He cannot know it.



Thomas said, He is God. Jesus replied, Thomas has believed.
why will you not accept the Lord's own testimony? why sooner believe that it's OK to worship a man or an angel than believe that the only Saviour is in fact the Saviour?

:cry:
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The divine became human... thats is not what you getting...
The divine did not leave the body at anytime...

About. Thomas..tead my previous response.

Yes i believed thise who believes in him will never die.
We will be granted immortality...

It is different from the one who has immortality...and at any seconds did not die.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#240
Aug 6, 2013
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#240
posthuman said:
it's called 'cognitive dissonance'

he says God, who was the Word, ceased to be immortal. his proof rationale is that God must have become mortal because God is immutably immortal. this is his argument: God cannot cease to be God, therefore God must have ceased to be God.
it's a nonsense POV.

Kayla cut the legs straight out from under his POV earlier with only two words:
Click to expand...
I always insist that the one true God is the Father..he did not cease to be God.
The Word who also equal to God..
Became flesh...
The Father sent his son to taste death
Hebrews 2:9...

And if you read..
Heb 2:16 KJV For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

NATURE oF ANGELS?
 
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