The Word became Flesh

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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#61
I'm sorry, I should of just asked.
Why did you post a clock to my comment that stands for the term "old news" or "outdated"?
Did someone else comment some similar subject matter and I missed it? I apologise if so.
Because you posted the truth of how scripture is to be interpreted. The way it has been done from the beginning. She is some kind of advocate for a different view of scripture. Rather than see all thing through the lense of scripture, they interpret scripture through the lense of their experiences, ideas, and feelings.
No apologies required. You were correct in what you said.
 

8084cc

New member
Mar 11, 2020
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#62
Having the knowledge of good and evil, as God does, would have equipped Eve and Adam to fully understand Gods first law; thou shalt not eat....Making then the serpent's leading to do just that of none effect. When they had no comprehension of good nor evil, they had no conscious ability to make an informed free choice to either obey, or disobey. Whereas the Serpent was far wiser, and let into the garden to exploit that very thing.

That is why it is later written sin was in the world even then. Because sin is not imputed where there is no law. Sin came into the world the moment God uttered to Eve and Adam, thou shalt not.... While Saul/Paul tells us sin was in the world before the law of God was given.

That is because when sin is not imputed where there is no law, the law must have its defined within it non-compliance factors. I.E. punishment for transgressing the law. And all this was created by God the giver of the law is also that one which created the imputation (Impute= attribute, ascribe] for its transgression.

Oh, the outrage, so many may imagine themselves to feel when reading that. However, it is Biblical. The Book of Isaiah 45.
It's the woman's fault! Eve succumbed to the serpent and his temptation. Ah, how we so overlook the Biblical fact that God blamed Adam for sin entering the world. (Which is interesting when Saul/Paul said sin existed in the world before the law. A man informed by the ascended Christ to bring further revelations to the world. That too is interesting. And perhaps a topic for a different thread. )

God is the creator of all that is. Not even Satan is able to fully do whatever he wishes without Gods allowance. As we learned when we read of the trials of Job.

The question then becomes, why did our omniscient Father not forgive the first innocents for a mistake that was not their fault, nor choice? Not wilful choice due to having no conscious awareness of good nor evil so as to make an informed decision to either obey or disobey.

The first innocent guileless couple He created. And then when in that paradise garden, where a tree that would damn the world due to the fruit it bore if consumed, would not only make the eater thereof like God, then and only then knowing right from wrong, good and evil, so as to then be conscious of those dual components that are enmeshed in this world of light and darkness, was consumed, and due to a wise serpent with awareness of that tree being allowed entry into a place overseen by omnipresent father.

Only after eating did the first people become conscious of right and wrong. And only then did they recognize they were naked and for some reason not present in their psyche prior, were ashamed of that God given flesh and bone created in the image and likeness of their Father.

It's a mystery! Or is it? Without that happening in the beginning, we would not be aware of the dual energies operating in this world; good and evil. And here, where the adversary, adverse, of God and His great goodness, exists, while also being allowed to re-enter Heaven from which he was once cast out, and so as to confer with God, roams about , walks to and fro, like a hungry lion ......seeking souls to devour.

Without that which happened in the garden, we would not know what God is. We would not know what evil is. And we would not then, because we are now conscious of good and evil, be able to make the choice. To seek Good/God. Or to die in the evil/sins. And what are the sins? And why do they exist?

The Book of Isaiah chapter48
I believe that God, being the ultimate Creator of existence has to have a will that is unmovable and unable to be altered if the creation, and it's order and allotted timeis going to run smoothly for his pleasure.

There is Good and evil, and sin that is evil in comparison to his righteousness, and there is sin that is sin because it does not align with his perfect will. We see that clearly when Peter tried to prevent the crucifixion of Christ. He was rebuked and even called Satan.
We swim in sin. We are laden with it. We would drown in it if it weren't for the grace of God.
This I believe is why correction can be so grievous at times, especially if we're not aware of the reasons for the chastisement.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#63
I'm sorry, I should of just asked.
Why did you post a clock to my comment that stands for the term "old news" or "outdated"?
Did someone else comment some similar subject matter and I missed it? I apologise if so.
I appreciate your apology. :) I'll be brief in my explanation. Rather than think the brother was wrong in their sharing their Biblical perspective due to their relationship with God and His word, perhaps take time to consider that you may benefit from someone else and their perspective.
Those who are in Christ in this Ekklesia are here to learn from one another. To grow in understanding and knowledge of our Lord and our unique relationship with the greatest creative power in existence.


“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.”

Thank you for your inquiry. And forgive me if my "old" remark concerning your thoughts made you feel bad. It was not my intention. It was a communication on a larger level toward that which in its spirit seeks to assail the Ekklesia in a similar manner and language. God be with you.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#64
Here is another example illustrating why you need a class in basic English.

You decry baby talk, but frankly, because of your grammar, your "sentences" are little better.

You constantly post your view as to what Scripture means, but your grasp of written English is so poor that most readers ignore you. What is the value of sharing your opinion on such an important subject if nobody wants to read it? Please, humble yourself and take a class.
Yes not much better. Glad you got the point. I am a slower leaner. Jesus has me on a learning curve .Thanks for the encouragement.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#65
Here is another example illustrating why you need a class in basic English.

You decry baby talk, but frankly, because of your grammar, your "sentences" are little better.

You constantly post your view as to what Scripture means, but your grasp of written English is so poor that most readers ignore you. What is the value of sharing your opinion on such an important subject if nobody wants to read it? Please, humble yourself and take a class.
I usually at least somewhat agree with you on many subjects.
I think this is quite harsh.
While I disagree with Garee on many things I don't think it's a good practice to become a grammar critic. I misspell words and miss typos and stupid auto corrects all the time. I would hate that something I posted was dismissed because I botched a grammar detail.
 

8084cc

New member
Mar 11, 2020
14
6
3
San Diego, CA
#66
I usually at least somewhat agree with you on many subjects.
I think this is quite harsh.
While I disagree with Garee on many things I don't think it's a good practice to become a grammar critic. I misspell words and miss typos and stupid auto corrects all the time. I would hate that something I posted was dismissed because I botched a grammar detail.
I am completely with you here. I perceive it to be flat out degrading and disrespectful.
I don't believe it may be Dino that should, not necessarily take a class, but read what Paul says about becoming high minded and puffed up in their knowledge.
That post was not scripture centered so zeal can not be a variable. It was just a plain out degrading post. It holds no goodness, humility, or edification.
Please, for the sake of the entire audience, humble yourself before you decide to post such degrading material, and your views of understanding will be more appreciated and attractive.
I'm not being mean in any way, but I don't see any other way to take a post like that but blatant ignorant disrespect.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,709
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#67
I usually at least somewhat agree with you on many subjects.
I think this is quite harsh.
While I disagree with Garee on many things I don't think it's a good practice to become a grammar critic. I misspell words and miss typos and stupid auto corrects all the time. I would hate that something I posted was dismissed because I botched a grammar detail.
Thanks for your input. I don't "dismiss" his posts because of "a grammar detail". However, sometimes wading through the grammatical errors to understand what he is saying takes more effort than I (or most others, apparently) care to invest.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,709
13,392
113
#68
I am completely with you here. I perceive it to be flat out degrading and disrespectful.
I don't believe it may be Dino that should, not necessarily take a class, but read what Paul says about becoming high minded and puffed up in their knowledge.
That post was not scripture centered so zeal can not be a variable. It was just a plain out degrading post. It holds no goodness, humility, or edification.
Please, for the sake of the entire audience, humble yourself before you decide to post such degrading material, and your views of understanding will be more appreciated and attractive.
I'm not being mean in any way, but I don't see any other way to take a post like that but blatant ignorant disrespect.
You don't know me, and you don't know the context. I'll leave it at that.
 

8084cc

New member
Mar 11, 2020
14
6
3
San Diego, CA
#70
I can't fathom the depth of the love, patience, tolerance, and mercy the Good Lord has for his children.
Out of the numerous ways God could of willed a way to cleanse his of their sons, he takes his ONLY BELOVED son and has him take such a low estate to have him rejected, humiliated, beaten, whipped, and crucifies for filthy, sin laden people like me.
And the word became flesh is much deeper than a simple statement of fact. If that doesn't express to our finite understanding how much he loves his, I don't know what is.
Christ says that those who are forgiven much are thankful much. I am humbled as much as my being can be by God's love and mercy that I get aggravated that I can't be more humble, appreciative, and thankful. I feel the chasm between my filth and his righteousness in our relationship with everything I do, but I feel so very comforted when I look to Him and his Divine truth and I feel the perfection of our relationship from Him to me. I realize that He is the one to look to fof perfection, because I fail continually to find it in myself. It is this realization that reassures me that he is in control, and I am only made perfect and holy because He declares me to be in Christ.
Oh heavenly Father, please give me the ability to love and glorify you more for I feel insufficient in my abilities in this fleshly temple. You are the best Father one could ever, ever, have. I cherish your presence in my life and long to spend eternity praising your name. Thank you my dear heavenly father for extending your grace upon my filthy self and saving my wretched soul. Thank you for your perfect will at the perfect time your word became flesh for my sinful, filthy, unrighteous self to be declared holy and blameless. You're the best dad ever. I love you. Amen.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
#71
This body and flesh that we live in you cannot deify it by saying that this body becomes the word or the word becomes this body. This body is the body of sin and death.
Some proclaim Paul said he could not help himself but kept on living in sin after receiving Christ. This misunderstanding comes from Chapter 7 in Romans. Where Paul is speaking of a life outside of Christ's Spirit. Please give it a read. But remember The context continues in chapter 8 where Paul through the Spirit speaks of being delivered from the Law of Sin and death in which he was in captivity, Condemning sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us. Please look at the text below as he continues after giving his testimony prior to Christ.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW OF SIN which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this DEATH? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus HATH MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 7:23-8:4 KJV)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
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HBG. Pa. USA
#72
So you're saying when we claim the scriptures and ask "by His strips we are healed in Jesus's Name or use our authority and claim our healing in His Name and we are physically healed not by medicines but by Faith, the Word did not become Flesh empowered by the Holy Ghost.
But I agree the Word became Flesh in context to the scriptures , I'm coming from a different angle and I have laid hands on people and used my Authority in His Name and they have been healed. If I'm abusing the scriptures, why were they Healed?
In the book of Acts when people were getting healed by the Apostles shadows, would this be known as hyper spiritualizing? if people let their shadow heal people.
To me personally, its the end result, if a believer faith is strengthen/encouraged this way and their prays are answered.......... Praised the Lord!
I agree " The word is always alive by the power of the Holy Spirit who inhabits the word." but through a body who has faith in Christ
Healed from the Sin sickness.
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)

D̓ead is πογενόμενος in the Greek
apogenomenos
Thayer Definition:
1) to be removed from, depart
2) to die, to die to anything
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
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#73
Healed from the Sin sickness.
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)
Thank you God for having mercy on us all.
We praise you for the mercy and grace that you have bestowed on us all. You have said, If we continue in YOUR word, then are we are your disciples indeed; And we shall know the truth, and the truth shall make us free. (BUT) They answered YOU, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? And YOU answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant (SINNER) abideth not in the house (YOUR House GOD) for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made (US) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of YOUR son whom you gave for us, For we have put on Christ, and have become one flesh. A new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of You God, YOU reconciled us to YOURSELF by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; And such trust have we through Christ to YOU God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of YOU Father forever and ever amen.
(Joh 8:31-36; Rom 8:2-4 6:6-7; 2Co 5:17-18; 2Co 3:4-5 )
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#74
Some proclaim Paul said he could not help himself but kept on living in sin after receiving Christ. This misunderstanding comes from Chapter 7 in Romans. Where Paul is speaking of a life outside of Christ's Spirit. Please give it a read. But remember The context continues in chapter 8 where Paul through the Spirit speaks of being delivered from the Law of Sin and death in which he was in captivity, Condemning sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us. Please look at the text below as he continues after giving his testimony prior to Christ.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW OF SIN which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this DEATH? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus HATH MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 7:23-8:4 KJV)
I understand and agree. My argument is about the OP attempting to make John 1:14 about us. As in the word becoming flesh in is when we receive from God, which is just not true. That passage is about the deity of of Jesus. Any attempt to make that passage about us in any sense beyond that Christ did this for us is heterodoxy, if not heresy. Being born again is of the spirit not of the flesh. This flesh still suffers the consequences of sin which is death. Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. There are many passages that admonish us to regard this flesh as dead. Particularly the passages which clarify baptism.
Even in the passages that you quoted in Romans, the context begins in Romans 7:4 we died to flesh and walk in newness of spirit which is why we have the conflict of the two nature's. Because this flesh is the body of sin and death, but we are live in Christ by The Spirit. Romans chapter 8:10 if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Then Romans 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
therefore any attempt to make John 1:14 about this body deifies this flesh rather than regards this flesh as what it is and that being dead.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#76
The word became flesh to provide a demonstration between the Son of Man seen the temporal, and the eternal father not seen.

Corrupted flesh that cannot profit as far as salvation was used to demonstrate what the letter of the law death could not.
the first sentence -- yes!

the second tho, i still brace at you referring to Jesus as inhabiting '
corrupted flesh' -- there is no corruption in Him, at all. He put on flesh, but He was born of a virgin, without sin, without blemish. as Adam before sin. as the verse says, 'in the likeness of sinful flesh' -- not actually in sinful flesh, but having the same appearance, because, yes, flesh. very much human, but not corrupt & poisoned human, as all others are, as we ourselves are.


i *think* i get how you are using this terminology, but i don't think it's the right word to say -- i would say instead, weak & powerless flesh.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#77
Condemned sin or rendered sin useless in the flesh. No flesh, no demonstration
by all the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwelling in Him, and being tested in every way and found absolutely perfect, that which He lacked is shown extraneous, all that is not found in Him is found condemned.
no sin in His flesh = sin in the flesh condemned. The Golden Rod to measure the city ;)
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#78
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night (Psalm 1:2).

Quite absurd indeed!
An idol is a false God.
Therefore you can not make an idol (a false god) of God's word.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#79
Cryptic remarks don't assist in explaining what you actually mean to say. Would you clarify precisely what you're referring to as regards the OP?
pretty sure he's describing a kind of transubstantiation, but conceptually referring to his own body rather than a piece of bread.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#80
This body and flesh that we live in you cannot deify it by saying that this body becomes the word or the word becomes this body. This body is the body of sin and death.
That speaks against the regeneration of the new believer in Christ.
what does it mean when Christ regenerates a man's limb? ((Matthew 12:13))

that man's new arm -- what is it made out of? is it a piece of Jesus or a piece of that man?