Want to beat the coronavirus? Reopen America now

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#1
That is the title of a new article from American Thinker which makes perfect sense. All the fear-mongering is designed to bring America to its knees. Also Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states. New York state has almost 50% of reported cases, and corresponding deaths.

March 22, 2020
Want to beat the coronavirus? Reopen America now
By Geoffrey P. Hunt


Contrarian and compelling voices are rising to warn that the lockdown of the American economy is overdone, not sustainable — from the Wall Street Journal editorial pages to a standalone blog entry from a Hoover Institution economist highlighted by the Power Line blog to the Cato Institute.

In fact, the economic lockdown itself is unfolding into a catastrophe, needlessly devastating the engine of American exceptionalism itself.

The economic shutdown by government fiat, driven by public health authorities' overreach — led by the CDC, whose recent preoccupations have been focused on the phantom enemies of racism, global warming, and gender dysphoria, rather than communicable diseases — is looking like the Vietnam war cliché: "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Yes, the CCP Wuhan COVID-19 virus is serious stuff, but not exactly an unknown. We know that it is a super-contagion, but its ravages can be confined to identifiable clusters, and the disease duration in any person is on average short-lived, more virulent than the flu, less virulent than SARS.

Let's understand what the CCP Wuhan virus is not: it is not a bio-terror weapon infecting the water supply; it is not an electromagnetic cluster bomb shutting down communications and transmission of electrical power; it is not a thermonuclear event covering the globe with radiation. This is not pestilence wiping out food supplies, nor Vesuvius-Pompeii-style volcanic eruptions.

Since the lockdown of the U.S. economy began the week of March 9, with a fifteen-day initial phase announced by President Trump on March 16, several therapeutic solutions are in the works. Even some have been deployed, notably a decades-old quinine compound — chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine — used for malaria and lupus, which apparently has been successful in reversing the CCP Wuhan virus within six days in small but promising sample populations. It is also odds-on that the increasing sunlight UV duration in the northern hemisphere — increasing by some 30% from March 15 to March 30 — will knock down the virus's chemical bonds.

The death rate, unwelcome for sure, is nowhere near the catastrophic projections. The overall infection rate is a fraction of SARS. It is likely that the CCP Wuhan virus has been floating around since November, maybe late October. The vast majority of infections are relatively mild, in some cases asymptomatic, with recoveries on par with the flu.

In the meantime, we also know that the economic shutdown is costing us between one and two trillion dollars per month, a government-induced depression that, if prolonged beyond a few weeks, may be impossible to overcome. The social-cultural dislocation will be immeasurable, indeed cataclysmic.

And we have top-level public officials ranging from the CDC's Dr. Anthony Fauci to N.Y. State governor Andrew Cuomo speculating about sheltering in place lasting from 45 days to a few months. That's the sort of reckless talk that, if enacted, would destroy the nation.

Why are we willing to spend untold trillions on economic resuscitation plans that may not work, no better than "peeing on the ashes"? Why not keep the economy driving while directing emergency funds and other resources to the front-line health care workers, hospitals, clinics, and researchers?

Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan seem to be coping while not completely scorching their economies. What are we missing?

Maybe we will we be rescued by mass disobedience from everyday Americans, who soon enough will say " hell, no" to enduring prolonged madness, nullifying hysterical and misguided governance.

Who shall soothe the unbridled rage of everyday Americans when they lose their livelihoods, their homes, their savings, and their communities, realizing they were betrayed by the terrified governing clan?

President Trump's fifteen-day protocol says the shutdown of American life and its economic engine will be evaluated by March 31. That is too late.

The American engine needs to be restarted now. Suffocating the economy has been easy; reviving an economic corpse will be the stuff of hopeless heroics, fit only for Disney happy endings or the Hallmark channel. Simple commonsense leadership is the cure. Let's get back to work — today.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/want_to_beat_the_coronavirus_reopen_america_now.html
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#2
The overall infection rate is a fraction of SARS.
Where are his numbers, graphs and equations to prove this.

Sorry but this article is riddled with error and plainly leaving out much critical information to be considered reliable.

Comparing a country like Japan to the USA without even mentioning how each countries responded to the virus without any detail is reckless journalism as well.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#3
I just listened to a Canadian ER doctor in Toronto on how bad this epidemic is going to be. He says because there are no symptoms, or symptoms that don't seem to be caused by the disease, and how easy it is to spread, we probably have 10 times more cases than are estimated. His work in an ER with actual patients has him warning everyone to stayed locked down and inside.

The only conspiracy for me, is that we still don't really know where this disease came from and if it is natural, or a bioweapon. As far as how we should live - I'll take my chances with self-isolating till the epidemic is over.

All the countries that agree with you, Nehemiah, that we should just continue life as usual, are seeing hundreds die daily, like Italy. Boris Johnson in England also laughed off COVID-19, and said herd immunity would take care of it. Well, in a way he is right, it will! But how many thousands upon thousands will die before herd immunity is reached?

I figure, I can isolate myself as long as it takes, and not get the virus, or take terrible chances like going out once, and die. Because I have 7 high risk factors, including immunocompromised, I am just going to ignore people who say the economy is more important than health. And try and serve God from home, and be in contact with friends and family by phone, internet or FaceTime.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#4
Where are his numbers, graphs and equations to prove this.
He quote CATO as one of his sources. Here is what they have posted, which is also what WHO said about SARS:

For perspective, the SARS coronavirus killed 774 people out of 8096 known cases in 2003, which was a death rate of 9.6% before it vanished the next year. Bird flu in 1997 was predicted to be a deadly pandemic, but it killed very few people before it disappeared. In its February 22 U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses… and 18,000 deaths from flu.” Dividing 18,000 by 32 million implies a low U.S. death rate of .0138% from the flu. Looking at the death rate alone is obviously not enough: We also have to look at the numbers of people infected, and the duration of the epidemic, which is why the flu killed so many more people than SARS. Still, it is important to avoid scaring people about the risk of death from COVID-19 by continuing to ignore the fact that the vast majority of cases “have mild disease and get better without needing any special care.”

https://www.cato.org/blog/misleading-arithmetic-covid-19-death-rates
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#5
That's fine for healthy people like you, but what about people like me, and my 90 year old mother? (She's actually healthier than me!) Do we deserve to have to stay locked up the rest of our lives, so we won't get this disease that is killing immunocompromised people? Although, I worry more about my grandchildren who have one parent who is a doctor, and they are in the hospital daily, fighting this virus. Will my grandchildren die, because money is more important than people?

And then remember, healthy young people, people in their 20s, 30s 40s and 50s are dying of this disease too. Wouldn't it be ironical if I ended up coming through this safely, because I was careful about being isolated, whereas you went out, caught it and died? Maybe because their weren't enough ventilators, because they were all being used? Not that I want that to happen to anyone!

I don't like scare tactics, I confess. But, neither do I agree that we should just live our lives as normal, open up businesses, and everything else, because then really a lot of people will die.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#6
The American Thinker author is short sighted. The Corona virus is a global issue. America's economy isn't in a lock down. More fear mongering is what AT is guilty of. Which is always tragic when something so serious is exploited in such ways. Austria has closed its borders with Italy. Is their economy on lock down?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#7
That's fine for healthy people like you, but what about people like me, and my 90 year old mother? (She's actually healthier than me!) Do we deserve to have to stay locked up the rest of our lives, so we won't get this disease that is killing immunocompromised people? Although, I worry more about my grandchildren who have one parent who is a doctor, and they are in the hospital daily, fighting this virus. Will my grandchildren die, because money is more important than people?

And then remember, healthy young people, people in their 20s, 30s 40s and 50s are dying of this disease too. Wouldn't it be ironical if I ended up coming through this safely, because I was careful about being isolated, whereas you went out, caught it and died? Maybe because their weren't enough ventilators, because they were all being used? Not that I want that to happen to anyone!

I don't like scare tactics, I confess. But, neither do I agree that we should just live our lives as normal, open up businesses, and everything else, because then really a lot of people will die.
I'm sorry to read that about yourself and your mom.
Open the windows to make sure you get fresh air circulating in your home. I don't know what immune system compromise you are personally referring to so I won't recommend anything concerning that.
You are in our prayers, I hope you know. As are all who battle this virus.


for you both.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#8
He quote CATO as one of his sources. Here is what they have posted, which is also what WHO said about SARS:

For perspective, the SARS coronavirus killed 774 people out of 8096 known cases in 2003, which was a death rate of 9.6% before it vanished the next year. Bird flu in 1997 was predicted to be a deadly pandemic, but it killed very few people before it disappeared. In its February 22 U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses… and 18,000 deaths from flu.” Dividing 18,000 by 32 million implies a low U.S. death rate of .0138% from the flu. Looking at the death rate alone is obviously not enough: We also have to look at the numbers of people infected, and the duration of the epidemic, which is why the flu killed so many more people than SARS. Still, it is important to avoid scaring people about the risk of death from COVID-19 by continuing to ignore the fact that the vast majority of cases “have mild disease and get better without needing any special care.”

https://www.cato.org/blog/misleading-arithmetic-covid-19-death-rates
It seems what so many are not taking into consideration is the length of incubation of this virus.

In a young child with a healthy immune system this virus incubates for up to 24 days, but for the general public we have from 4 to 14 days most at the 6 - 7 range this was not the case with all those other viruses.

What this means is that a person has no symptoms is out and about and will infect others..... the average is about 3 to 4.

So what we have here, is exponential growth of infection, this means the numbers the USA is seeing now relate back to one week or so ago. In one week those numbers increase exponentially so we can forward map what the numbers will look like.

The problem with virus is its ability to overwhelm the health care system in the USA, which has approximately 100 000 ICU beds.. and those beds are not empty.

The spread has to be contained in order for supplies and perhaps treatment to be made... because it is not only the people with the virus but any and all medical emergencies ... cancer, heart aches, strokes etc., that are also at risk when no one can treat them.

If the United States does nothing..... way more than the projected 1.5 million will die.

So you tell me what options are there really.

The only thing that author could have reasonably argued was that containment will not work... but he didn't did he, because he really has not done his research and actually not "Thinking"
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,061
3,175
113
#9
It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and dismiss the deaths of the nameless numbers and minimize the problem. Of course to do so is to still lessen peoples humanity by seeing the deaths and thinking they are meaningless and irrelevant.
Or to speak to faceless, nameless masses about the needs of the economy, the exaggeration and fear mongering. How about this, you go to to Italy, look at the faces of the parents, children, wives/husbands, family and friends of those who lost someone (or perhaps more than one) and tell them the same message. Tell them that the few deaths don't really mean anything (because, the flu is worse anyways) and that this problem should be ignored. Look those left behind in the eyes and see if you can feel the same way.
Fearmongering is not the answer, but neither is burying your head in the sand (or other places) and pretending there is no problem.

And to diminish the value and worth of those whose risks of getting this illness, and dying from it (such as myself and everyone in my household) is pure and simple cold heartedness and only looking out for ones self interests. To go on with life as usual is to ignore those people and put them in a lower class.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#10
It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and dismiss the deaths of the nameless numbers and minimize the problem. Of course to do so is to still lessen peoples humanity by seeing the deaths and thinking they are meaningless and irrelevant.
Or to speak to faceless, nameless masses about the needs of the economy, the exaggeration and fear mongering. How about this, you go to to Italy, look at the faces of the parents, children, wives/husbands, family and friends of those who lost someone (or perhaps more than one) and tell them the same message. Tell them that the few deaths don't really mean anything (because, the flu is worse anyways) and that this problem should be ignored. Look those left behind in the eyes and see if you can feel the same way.
Fearmongering is not the answer, but neither is burying your head in the sand (or other places) and pretending there is no problem.

And to diminish the value and worth of those whose risks of getting this illness, and dying from it (such as myself and everyone in my household) is pure and simple cold heartedness and only looking out for ones self interests. To go on with life as usual is to ignore those people and put them in a lower class.
Well said....Thank you
Sad that believers can adopt such a hard hearted attitude ... I raised the exact same sentiment to a pastor on Facebook and he blocked me.

A pastor who is all about civil liberties and freedom of speech

The church is not looking to good right now.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,860
4,513
113
#11
That is the title of a new article from American Thinker which makes perfect sense. All the fear-mongering is designed to bring America to its knees. Also Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states. New York state has almost 50% of reported cases, and corresponding deaths.

March 22, 2020
Want to beat the coronavirus? Reopen America now
By Geoffrey P. Hunt


Contrarian and compelling voices are rising to warn that the lockdown of the American economy is overdone, not sustainable — from the Wall Street Journal editorial pages to a standalone blog entry from a Hoover Institution economist highlighted by the Power Line blog to the Cato Institute.

In fact, the economic lockdown itself is unfolding into a catastrophe, needlessly devastating the engine of American exceptionalism itself.

The economic shutdown by government fiat, driven by public health authorities' overreach — led by the CDC, whose recent preoccupations have been focused on the phantom enemies of racism, global warming, and gender dysphoria, rather than communicable diseases — is looking like the Vietnam war cliché: "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Yes, the CCP Wuhan COVID-19 virus is serious stuff, but not exactly an unknown. We know that it is a super-contagion, but its ravages can be confined to identifiable clusters, and the disease duration in any person is on average short-lived, more virulent than the flu, less virulent than SARS.

Let's understand what the CCP Wuhan virus is not: it is not a bio-terror weapon infecting the water supply; it is not an electromagnetic cluster bomb shutting down communications and transmission of electrical power; it is not a thermonuclear event covering the globe with radiation. This is not pestilence wiping out food supplies, nor Vesuvius-Pompeii-style volcanic eruptions.

Since the lockdown of the U.S. economy began the week of March 9, with a fifteen-day initial phase announced by President Trump on March 16, several therapeutic solutions are in the works. Even some have been deployed, notably a decades-old quinine compound — chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine — used for malaria and lupus, which apparently has been successful in reversing the CCP Wuhan virus within six days in small but promising sample populations. It is also odds-on that the increasing sunlight UV duration in the northern hemisphere — increasing by some 30% from March 15 to March 30 — will knock down the virus's chemical bonds.

The death rate, unwelcome for sure, is nowhere near the catastrophic projections. The overall infection rate is a fraction of SARS. It is likely that the CCP Wuhan virus has been floating around since November, maybe late October. The vast majority of infections are relatively mild, in some cases asymptomatic, with recoveries on par with the flu.

In the meantime, we also know that the economic shutdown is costing us between one and two trillion dollars per month, a government-induced depression that, if prolonged beyond a few weeks, may be impossible to overcome. The social-cultural dislocation will be immeasurable, indeed cataclysmic.

And we have top-level public officials ranging from the CDC's Dr. Anthony Fauci to N.Y. State governor Andrew Cuomo speculating about sheltering in place lasting from 45 days to a few months. That's the sort of reckless talk that, if enacted, would destroy the nation.

Why are we willing to spend untold trillions on economic resuscitation plans that may not work, no better than "peeing on the ashes"? Why not keep the economy driving while directing emergency funds and other resources to the front-line health care workers, hospitals, clinics, and researchers?

Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan seem to be coping while not completely scorching their economies. What are we missing?

Maybe we will we be rescued by mass disobedience from everyday Americans, who soon enough will say " hell, no" to enduring prolonged madness, nullifying hysterical and misguided governance.

Who shall soothe the unbridled rage of everyday Americans when they lose their livelihoods, their homes, their savings, and their communities, realizing they were betrayed by the terrified governing clan?

President Trump's fifteen-day protocol says the shutdown of American life and its economic engine will be evaluated by March 31. That is too late.

The American engine needs to be restarted now. Suffocating the economy has been easy; reviving an economic corpse will be the stuff of hopeless heroics, fit only for Disney happy endings or the Hallmark channel. Simple commonsense leadership is the cure. Let's get back to work — today.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/want_to_beat_the_coronavirus_reopen_america_now.html
We have 6 deaths and 42 cases in our local hospital. 1 death in my county alone. So that's already 7. I think people dont have the right numbers.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,233
1,641
113
#12
I didn't catch the entire story this morning, but news channels are reporting that diarrhea may be the earliest indicator of Covid19. Apparently it is mild and is gone before the respiratory symptoms present. If this is true, early testing could be a game changer.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#13
We have 6 deaths and 42 cases in our local hospital. 1 death in my county alone. So that's already 7. I think people dont have the right numbers.
Do you think the numbers should be higher or lower?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,860
4,513
113
#14
Do you think the numbers should be higher or lower?
I was referring to the OPs numbers Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states.

But according to our local news in our hospital alone was 7 deaths and 1 death that was transferred to Atlanta from my county. It just doesn't sound like it represents what is going on. But I have not studied the numbers on a national scale.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#15
I was referring to the OPs numbers Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states.

But according to our local news in our hospital alone was 7 deaths and 1 death that was transferred to Atlanta from my county. It just doesn't sound like it represents what is going on. But I have not studied the numbers on a national scale.
yeah not sure what this is about,

That is the title of a new article from American Thinker which makes perfect sense. All the fear-mongering is designed to bring America to its knees. Also Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states. New York state has almost 50% of reported cases, and corresponding deaths.
Below it the dashboard from John Hopkins University and the the above statement does not jive with reality.


https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Thank you for drawing that our attention, we need to focus on facts not misinformation.
Anyone can look at the curve and see it is going straight up.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,860
4,513
113
#16
yeah not sure what this is about,



Below it the dashboard from John Hopkins University and the the above statement does not jive with reality.


https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Thank you for drawing that our attention, we need to focus on facts not misinformation.
Anyone can look at the curve and see it is going straight up.
I get sick of conspiracies only because most just dont have compelling evidence. This virus has so many conspiracies and none can be proven so idk why people waste their time with them.

If I had a full team, inside agents, lots of money, and spies then maybe I would try to search for evidence to a conspiracy but us average folk do not have that kinda time, money, resources, or personal to investigate such matters. I just have to filter the media and do my best to believe what sounds accurate. Otherwise I dont have time for conspiracies.

Maybe there is new evidence to support claims like this virus was a bio weapon designed to bring America and other Nations to their knees. But I haven't heard much to prove that.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#17
I get sick of conspiracies only because most just dont have compelling evidence. This virus has so many conspiracies and none can be proven so idk why people waste their time with them.

If I had a full team, inside agents, lots of money, and spies then maybe I would try to search for evidence to a conspiracy but us average folk do not have that kinda time, money, resources, or personal to investigate such matters. I just have to filter the media and do my best to believe what sounds accurate. Otherwise I dont have time for conspiracies.

Maybe there is new evidence to support claims like this virus was a bio weapon designed to bring America and other Nations to their knees. But I haven't heard much to prove that.
Us lowly people will never know what goes on at the top with the power elite.

It could be a bio weapon....idk ... but we are in the reality of it now and that we should deny what is the plain reality of this virus.

I just cannot believe that every epidemiologist, virologist, micro biologist etc., etc. are liars and part of this huge world wide conspiracy and this whole thing is a hoax.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,066
3,415
113
#18
That is the title of a new article from American Thinker which makes perfect sense. All the fear-mongering is designed to bring America to its knees. Also Johns Hopkins University has published the true numbers of cases and deaths in all the states. There have been no deaths in 18 states, and less than four in 42 states. New York state has almost 50% of reported cases, and corresponding deaths.
Your source's math is horrible

18+42=60

The last time I checked there are only 50 states
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,066
3,415
113
#19
Your source's math is horrible

18+42=60

The last time I checked there are only 50 states
PS, the latest numbers from Johns Hopkins

Almost 42,000 confirmed cases in the US with cases reported in every state.

573 deaths in the US

Obviously, when you look at the map (link below) the greatest concentrations are in major metropolitan areas

Johns Hopkins Covid-19 world map
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#20
PS, the latest numbers from Johns Hopkins

Almost 42,000 confirmed cases in the US with cases reported in every state.

573 deaths in the US

Obviously, when you look at the map (link below) the greatest concentrations are in major metropolitan areas

Johns Hopkins Covid-19 world map
Ahhh @Oncefallen I feel so dejected you do not read my posts .... :(....:D