Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

livingbygrace · Apr 12, 2011

Well I appreciate you giving your time to give your opinions on this subject, but if you don't mind I don't want to get into yet another discussion with someone else on this subject and go through various scriptures yet again.
But can I ask you something?

John said

If anyone acknowledges Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God
1 John 4:15

John did not add anything to that requirement regarding how we must see Christ in order to have eternal life.

Do you agree with what John wrote?

Anyone who believes Christ is the son of God is therefore saved and will have eternal life on that belief with nothing added concerning how a person must see Christ?

Dutch41 · Apr 12, 2011

livingbygrace said:

I don't mind that you ask...
So I agree with Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Why? Because in Luc 1:35 is written that the Holy one will be called the Son of God.

And I am aware that some questions are answered.

But please gave your answer..
1. Do you agree that Paul used the Old Testament to prove who Christ is?
2 Do you agree with me that we can find the answer in the Old Testament?
3 Who saw Isaiah in 6:1?
4 Tell mee.. when Jesus quote Isiah 35:4-6 about who is Jesus talking?

livingbygrace · Apr 12, 2011

Dutch41 said:

I don't mind that you ask...
So I agree with Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Why? Because in Luc 1:35 is written that the Holy one will be called the Son of God.

And I am aware that some questions are answered.

But please gave your answer..
1. Do you agree that Paul used the Old Testament to prove who Christ is?
I am sure you realise I have discussed this subject at length lately and do not want to start afresh now and repeat yet again all the scriptures many times quoted, but I will answer this particular question

In reading this then you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not masde known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed BY THE SPIRIT to God's holy Apostles and prophets
Eph ;4

Does that answer your question?

And this is what Paul said concerning this subject

Then the end will come when he(Christ) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet
The last enemy to be destroyed is death
For he has put everything unmder his feet
Now when it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST
When he has done this, then the son himself will be made SUBJECT to him who put everything under him so that God will be all in all
1 Cor 15:24-28

Now unless you want to fully explain to me what Paul meant in those five contiunuous verses of scripture I suggest we leave it there

Dutch41 · Apr 12, 2011

livingbygrace said:

Dutch41 said:

Well livingbygrace... it is all your decision to answer questions or going in debate.. And of course you know this is a topic open for everybody.. and the risk of such topic is.. that you and we repeat all our answers.

Yes 1Cor 15 is a strong verse for you,.. but like the Berea did.. investigate the Scripture and not only the text that you like.

And of course can God not substitute Him self.. because if that is true.. He isn't equal anymore... (Phil 2:6)

So what does it mean.. well it is very simple.. The mediation stops... The reason why Jesus came to earth stopped.. And yes He gave all back to the Father. No problem with that.. (8:6), And if you really want to know what this verse mean.. read further to till the book of Revelation.. It shows exactly what this verse mean..

But I know it is easy to gave text and questions than answer them..

livingbygrace · Apr 12, 2011

Dutch41 said:

livingbygrace said:

Well livingbygrace... it is all your decision to answer questions or going in debate.. And of course you know this is a topic open for everybody.. and the risk of such topic is.. that you and we repeat all our answers.

True. But if you read all the posts on this subject I have discussed at length with many people this subject and am at this time prefering to concentrate on a single question, which I am sure you are aware of.
Yes 1Cor 15 is a strong verse for you,.. but like the Berea did.. investigate the Scripture and not only the text that you like.

And of course can God not substitute Him self.. because if that is true.. He isn't equal anymore... (Phil 2:6)

So what does it mean.. well it is very simple.. The mediation stops... The reason why Jesus came to earth stopped.. And yes He gave all back to the Father. No problem with that.. (8:6), And if you really want to know what this verse mean.. read further to till the book of Revelation.. It shows exactly what this verse mean..

I will refrain from commenting on your above comment as it would seem unfair if I do not wish to enter yet another scripture quoting contest with someone new at this time, but if in the future we discuss this subject I will reply to your opinion of 1 Cor 15:24-28

But I know it is easy to gave text and questions than answer them..

It is for us all

Incidentally, as I have said many times, I have never met anyone who can answer every scripture put to them on this subject and I freely admit that includes me

God Bless

Dutch41 · Apr 12, 2011

livingbygrace said:

Dutch41 said:

Of course nobody knows everything only the Lord..

But was Mariah and Joseph more as Jesus? Because Jesus was subjected (the same word is used there) at them...

Or is it only a position and not the nature?

livingbygrace · Apr 12, 2011

Dutch41 said:

livingbygrace said:

I think you should accept my graciousness in not responding to your opinions of the scripture I quoted and leave it there

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

livingbygrace said:

Dutch41 said:

I said it before.. It is your choice.. not to respond. And no.. I am not mad or dissappointed.

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

When reading Isiaih and other OT books you need to be clear who is speaking, God directly? or God through the person of Christ. And you have to remember, Christ was the God of Israel who was seen in the OT. I am not a great reader of the OT but I do not have to be. On the basis that the new would not contradict the old, and the fact that the Apostle Paul understood the OT far better than you or I ever will and he did not believe Christ was God Himself as he plainly stated in 1 Cor 15:27

But although you will not accept the plainest of statements on this subject you then expect me to accept your inferences from scripture that would then have to completely contradict the words of the Father, son, Paul and John

John lived with Christ on earth for three years. What did he say concerning this?

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

What did Jesus say?

No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only he has seen the Father
John 6:46

It is safe to assume John and Christ are refering to the same person

Paul said

When it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST
1 Cor 15:27

So either you are misunderstanding the OT writings or Paul and John were plainly wrong in what they wrote
So who would you listen to? Someone on the internet who quoted OT scripture that contradicted plain verses on this subject in the NT? Or Paul and John?

Christ said clearly

The Father is greater than I John 14:28

Do you believe he spoke the truth?

I can only repeat, to hold your views means putting aside the plainest of scripture on this subject for mans studying and interpretation of scripture

I am convinced that man in his egotistical mind always believes he can come up with some new interpretation to scripture from studying the word of God. He cannot accept what is plainly written. He believes he has the wisdom(someetimes convinces himself he is Holy Spirit led) to understand in even greater depths the meaning of scripture and all I constantly see on cc is this happening and the plainest of scripture is put to one side for this.

HeavenwithinYOU · Apr 13, 2011

GOD is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus was NOT THE FATHER but the SON, ALSO GOD. Yes. Of course. IF YOU TRULY know the SON you will know the FATHER, but if anyone says JESUS was the FATHER they are a LIAR and know neither. JESUS WAS THE SON OF THE FATHER, HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, GOD IS CHRIST, the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT.

Jesus is the Son of the Father, HE is God as is the Father as is the Holy Spirit all are ONE Spirit BUT THREE ARE ONE ARE THREE ARE ONE!
Daniel 7:13-14 (Christ approached God and receives power to rule)
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was
one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples,
nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion
is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom
is one that will never be destroyed.
John 20:17 - Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
Rev – 3:12 “Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.”
HOW MANY TIMES DOES JESUS SAY “MY GOD” in HEAVEN? THIS is while Jesus is in heaven He says this.
1 Corinthians 15: 27 - For he (The Father) “has put everything under his (Christ’s) feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him (Christ), it is clear that this does not include God (The Father) himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God (The Father) may be all in all.
REVELATIONS 2: 26 - To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations — 27 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father.

Rev 3:5 - He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Mat 28:19 - Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 18:10 - “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."
Hebrews 1:5 AMONG OTHER PLACES - For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?
John 1:2 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. --- STOP... ALEX: now.. if JESUS was THE FATHER there WOULD BE NO SPEAKING TO ANYONE in OUR behalf,
John 14:20 – “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
John 14:26 - But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you ALL things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
*** FATHER SENDS THE SPIRIT …. Jesus said the SPIRIT comes AFTER HE DIES and goes back to the FATHER.. YET.. HE SAYS THE FATHER WILL SEND IT IN HIS NAME!
STOP RELYING on your heart:
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 17:9[/FONT] - The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Rev- 21:22 - I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Ror the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Rev – 14:1 - Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
*** HIS NAME AND HIS FATHERS NAME ON THEIR HEADS!
2 Corinthians 1:3
[ The God of All Comfort ] Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Galatians 1:3
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4
who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
Ephesians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:3
[ Spiritual Blessings in Christ ] Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Ephesians 5:20
always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 6:23
Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 2:11
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 4:20
To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Colossians 1:2
To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Colossians 1:3
[ Thanksgiving and Prayer ] We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.

1 Thessalonians 1:3
We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 3:11
Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you.

1 Thessalonians 3:13
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

2 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:16
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

HeavenwithinYOU said:

GOD is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus was NOT THE FATHER but the SON, ALSO GOD. Yes. Of course. IF YOU TRULY know the SON you will know the FATHER, but if anyone says JESUS was the FATHER they are a LIAR and know neither. JESUS WAS THE SON OF THE FATHER, HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, GOD IS CHRIST, the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT.

Jesus is the Son of the Father, HE is God as is the Father as is the Holy Spirit all are ONE Spirit BUT THREE ARE ONE ARE THREE ARE ONE!
Daniel 7:13-14 (Christ approached God and receives power to rule)
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was
one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples,
nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion
is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom
is one that will never be destroyed.
John 20:17 - Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
Rev – 3:12 “Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.”
HOW MANY TIMES DOES JESUS SAY “MY GOD” in HEAVEN? THIS is while Jesus is in heaven He says this.
1 Corinthians 15: 27 - For he (The Father) “has put everything under his (Christ’s) feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him (Christ), it is clear that this does not include God (The Father) himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God (The Father) may be all in all.
REVELATIONS 2: 26 - To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations — 27 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father.

Rev 3:5 - He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Mat 28:19 - Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 18:10 - “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."
Hebrews 1:5 AMONG OTHER PLACES - For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?
John 1:2 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. --- STOP... ALEX: now.. if JESUS was THE FATHER there WOULD BE NO SPEAKING TO ANYONE in OUR behalf,
John 14:20 – “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
John 14:26 - But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you ALL things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
*** FATHER SENDS THE SPIRIT …. Jesus said the SPIRIT comes AFTER HE DIES and goes back to the FATHER.. YET.. HE SAYS THE FATHER WILL SEND IT IN HIS NAME!
STOP RELYING on your heart:
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 17:9[/FONT] - The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Rev- 21:22 - I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Ror the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Rev – 14:1 - Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
*** HIS NAME AND HIS FATHERS NAME ON THEIR HEADS!
2 Corinthians 1:3
[ The God of All Comfort ] Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Galatians 1:3
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4
who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
Ephesians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:3
[ Spiritual Blessings in Christ ] Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Ephesians 5:20
always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 6:23
Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 2:11
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 4:20
To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Colossians 1:2
To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Colossians 1:3
[ Thanksgiving and Prayer ] We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.

1 Thessalonians 1:3
We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 3:11
Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you.

1 Thessalonians 3:13
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

2 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:16
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,

I have read what you have written here and am grateful you accept the Father is God which is scriptural. But you quote 1 Cor 15:27
If Christ is God, how can God Himself refer to someone as 'My God.'? This is impossible

And as you quote, the son will be made SUBJECT TO THE fATHER

If Christ was God Himself he could not be subject to anyone

Now I agree the three are as one in the spirit of one heart and mind in the spirit

I also agree that the fatrher via the spirit is manifest in Christ now as when Christ was on earth.

I accept the fulness of the Godhead bodily rests on Christ, but Christ is not the one true God, only the Father is and the Father is greater than the son as Christ clearly stated

If Christ were God as much as the Father is God he could not refer to God as 'My God' or be subject to God

And you can only receive authority from someone greater than yourself

And as you say. Once Christ had returned to Heaven four times in Rev 3:12 he refered to God as 'My God'
I would appreciate your responses to these questions

I am curious as people who believe Christ is God do not normally quote the scripturee you have

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

Maybe it is good to read the Old Testament.... because Paul is proving that He is God, actually YHWH.. The Bible is the Old and New Testament.. andlike you know.. the first churche read only the Old Testament. I don’t believe that the Old Testament is seperate and not contradicted with the NT.

Interesting view.. God through the person of Christ.. like the the shell is Christ.. and the inside is God..
Isaiah was clear about who He saw. He saw YHWH. It is His litterly words.. the Serafs didn’t contradict this.

Is it possible that 2 persons can be called YHWH? Yes... for an example read Zach 2:8-9
For thus saith Jehovah of hosts: After glory hath he sent me unto the nations which plundered you; for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. 9 For, behold, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall be a spoil to those that served them; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me.

1 Cor 15 is not speaking about the nature, but about the roll. If that is true.. Phil 2:6 is not possible to write.

A man and a woman are both human.. only the roll is different. Like I asked you earlier, was Mary and Joseph more as Jesus?

Tell me..who is speaken here?

Soo.. let us see... God= Father... So nobody saw the Father.. am I correct? Only Jesus? Am I correct too?
We agree when it is mentioned: Nobody saw the Father. Only God the Son saw the Father

Of course He is greater why??? John 1:14 is talking about and Phil 2:6-8 He took the form of a human. The answer is clear.. Became He a complete human? The Bible said so.. did He had to learn so he had to be equal at a human? The book of Hebrew said so..

Well that you are convinced by this... it is your responsibility. But maybe it is good to study the Old Testament.. like the Bereau did in Act 17 and Paul said in Act 21 and 24.

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

Maybe it is good to read the Old Testament.... because Paul is proving that He is God, actually YHWH.. The Bible is the Old and New Testament.. andlike you know.. the first churche read only the Old Testament. I don’t believe that the Old Testament is seperate and not contradicted with the NT.

Please read 1 Cor 15:24-28 again. Paul makes it clear thyat Christ is not God Himself, and I can only repeat, Paul would have understood the OT far better than could you or I
Interesting view.. God through the person of Christ.. like the the shell is Christ.. and the inside is God..
Isaiah was clear about who He saw. He saw YHWH. It is His litterly words.. the Serafs didn’t contradict this.
For the unlearned, could you iuse the names Father and son please or God and Christ

John was clear.
No-one has seen God
Christ was clear
No-one has seen the Father
These are very plain statements on this subject

Is it possible that 2 persons can be called YHWH? Yes... for an example read Zach 2:8-9
For thus saith Jehovah of hosts: After glory hath he sent me unto the nations which plundered you; for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. 9 For, behold, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall be a spoil to those that served them; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me.

Certainly more than one person biblically can be refered to as God
John 10:35
Ex 23:20-22
1 Cor 8:5
1 Cor 15 is not speaking about the nature, but about the roll. If that is true.. Phil 2:6 is not possible to write.

Paul is clear in 1 Cor ch 15

When it says that everything has been pjut under him it is clear that THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST
A man and a woman are both human.. only the roll is different. Like I asked you earlier, was Mary and Joseph more as Jesus?

Tell me..who is speaken here?

Soo.. let us see... God= Father... So nobody saw the Father.. am I correct? Only Jesus? Am I correct too?
We agree when it is mentioned: Nobody saw the Father. Only God the Son saw the Father

It does not say in my bible only God the son saw the Father

No-one has ever seen the Father who according to Christ is ther one true God

Of course He is greater why??? John 1:14 is talking about and Phil 2:6-8 He took the form of a human. The answer is clear.. Became He a complete human? The Bible said so.. did He had to learn so he had to be equal at a human? The book of Hebrew said so..

But when Christ had returned to Heaven he still refered to God as
'My God'
And on earth he spoke of his eternal role, therefore he was when he said
The Father is gfreater than I

You are giving me man made opinion, not based on the plain words of Christ Paul, John and the Father

Well that you are convinced by this... it is your responsibility. But maybe it is good to study the Old Testament.. like the Bereau did in Act 17 and Paul said in Act 21 and 24.

Answers above

southern · Apr 13, 2011

check out my web site www.livinggodministries.info 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

We believe there is but one living and true God everlasting, of infinite power, wisdom holiness and majesty; Maker and Preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in the unity of this Godhead there are three Persons of one substance of eternal being, and equal in holiness, justice, wisdom, power, and dignity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

6 This is He Who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ (refers to the Living Word becoming flesh [Jn. 1:1, 4], which is symbolized by “water” and then as the Lamb of God Who took away the sin of the world, which was effected by the shedding of His Blood on the Cross of Calvary); not by water only, but by water and blood (testifies to the fact that the Incarnation within itself, although absolutely necessary, was not enough; the phrase also testifies to the absolute necessity of the Atonement). And it is the Spirit Who bears witness, because the Spirit is Truth. (The Holy Spirit bore witness to the Divine Birth of Christ, and to the Divine Sacrifice of Christ [Mat. 1:18; Heb. 9:14].)
7 For there are Three Who bear record in Heaven (the Law has ever required the Testimony of two or three witnesses [Deut. 17:6; 19:15; Mat. 18:16; II Cor. 13:1]), the Father, the Word (Jesus Christ is the Word [Jn. 1:1]), and the Holy Spirit: and these Three are One. (The only sense three can be one is in essence and unity, as is clear in Jn. 17:11, 21–23.)
8 And there are Three who bear witness in earth (as in Heaven, so on Earth), the Spirit, and the water, and the blood (speaks of the Holy Spirit; the Humanity of Christ, while never ceasing to be Deity, and the Atonement, i.e., “the Cross”): and these Three agree in One. (These Three agree that Christ is Very Man while at the same time being Very God, Who died on the Cross to Redeem fallen humanity.)

Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (2175). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

livingbygrace said:

of course..

The answer you can find in the Old Testament
Ps 45:6-8 The one God is speaking against another God. Intersting isn’t it?

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom
7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 8 All thy garments [smell of] myrrh, and aloes, [and] cassia; Out of ivory palaces stringed instruments have made thee glad

And of course in Ps 110 with the explanation from Jesus.

Or another like this we can find in Hosea 1:1 and 7 Here is YHWH speaking about the salvation from another YHWH ... (and of course I pointed earlier... Zach 2:8-9)

If you understand this.. it gave you the answer at the question you got...

wakeup · Apr 13, 2011

dewba said:

what about thomases confesion? are you saying that thomas called Jesus God?
he says my Lord (Jesus) and my GOD(the father) similar to what david says in ps110.
he said the LORD(the father) said unto my LORD(Jesus) sit in my right hand--

''wakeup''.

wakeup · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

of course..

The answer you can find in the Old Testament
Ps 45:6-8 The one God is speaking against another God. Intersting isn’t it?

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom
7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 8 All thy garments [smell of] myrrh, and aloes, [and] cassia; Out of ivory palaces stringed instruments have made thee glad

And of course in Ps 110 with the explanation from Jesus.

Or another like this we can find in Hosea 1:1 and 7 Here is YHWH speaking about the salvation from another YHWH ... (and of course I pointed earlier... Zach 2:8-9)

If you understand this.. it gave you the answer at the question you got...

[/quote]

moses was a God also; satan is a God also; things made by mans hands are Gods also.
so what say you?

''wakeup''.

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

of course..

The answer you can find in the Old Testament
Ps 45:6-8 The one God is speaking against another God. Intersting isn’t it?

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom
7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 8 All thy garments [smell of] myrrh, and aloes, [and] cassia; Out of ivory palaces stringed instruments have made thee glad

So basically God annointed Himself with the oil of gladness above his fellows?

And of course in Ps 110 with the explanation from Jesus.

The Lord said to my Lord. Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet Psalm 110:1

So God said to Himself that he should sit at his right hand until he had made his enemies a footstool for his feet?

Or another like this we can find in Hosea 1:1 and 7 Here is YHWH speaking about the salvation from another YHWH ... (and of course I pointed earlier... Zach 2:8-9)

If you understand this.. it gave you the answer at the question you got...
The Lord will be king over all the earth, ON THAT DAY THERE WILL BE ONE LORD, AND HIS NAME THE ONLY NAME
Zech 14:9
Has that day come yet?

Answers above

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

wakeup said:

Dutch41 said:

Hmm was He YHWH too? interesting.. read further my friend... Don't answer only the answers you think to know..

About if Moses was God or He was acting like God.. that is a difference. But I think you know that..
About satan if he is god.. well maybe you have to study about the word Elohim.. because I don't think you understand a lot of it, when it used and how it is used...

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

again... vs 9-10 isnt speaken about God.. but about YHWH. Or is each YHWH called God? For you to made it simple: YHWH said I: YOu shall know that YHWH hath sent me.. Don't made circle's

Ohhh and for you to understand:

Easy question:
-Who is speak here
-Who is sent?
-Who hath sent?

Tell me nobody saw the Father.. Did Christ see the Father?

Well.. I gave you just the Words of Paul, and John..and not an opinion of man..and I gave you the Opinion from the Bible.

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

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