There are non-believers who demonstrate love , patience and kindness...? Is it necessary to be a Christian to be kind and do God's will?

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#61
It’s not necessary to be Christian to be loving and kind to people, but it is necessary to place your faith in Jesus Christ in order to have salvation.
Spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, is not what saves you eternally. We do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, until we have been born again. Spiritual faith is a product of already having been born again. God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind, is the only way that a person is saved eternally. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not place his faith (which comes from the spirit of the world,1 Cor 2:12) in Jesus Christ, because he thinks the things of the Spirit of God are foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#62
Spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, is not what saves you eternally. We do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, until we have been born again. Spiritual faith is a product of already having been born again. God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind, is the only way that a person is saved eternally. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not place his faith (which comes from the spirit of the world,1 Cor 2:12) in Jesus Christ, because he thinks the things of the Spirit of God are foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.
Faith like a child saves.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
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#63
The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?
Union with Christ teaches that no one, outside of a union with Christ, produces spiritual fruit. Period.

Being joined to Christ, and made one with him, is what produces spiritual fruit. Spiritual fruit can only be produced by the Spirit, which requires that the person be joined to Jesus through the mediation of the Holy Spirit. See John 15. No unsaved person produces spiritual fruit, although they may produce the carnal equivalent at some level.

The unsaved are "in Adam". Christianity is being "in Christ". The believer has been joined or united with Christ, and participates in his resurrection life. Regardless of how it appears, those who are still "in Adam" are spiritually dead, and cannot produce spiritual fruit, because it is a product of spiritual life, which is only gained through union with Christ.

This is not to claim that unsaved people don't have some admirable characteristics sometimes, though. They, too, are made in the image of God and there is some remnant of this image, even in the fallen man. However, if a person is not joined to Christ, they cannot produce spiritual fruit. Cannot. Period.

We would call these admirable things "civic virtue". The person is a good citizen, but he is not producing spiritual fruit. And, the motivation behind his good works may ultimately be selfish.

I'd suggest reading John 15, Romans 5, 6, 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, 1 John 3 in regards to various points I made above.

They need Christ as their center of reference. They can't be anything other than an idolater because if Christ is not their center of reference, then they are an idolater. Their lives are centered on something else, which ultimately proves itself to be worthless.
If families are our idol, they will ultimately let us down. If careers are our idol, they will ultimately let us down. If drugs or sex are our idols, they will ultimately let us down. If success is our idol, it will ultimately let us down. If religion is our idol, it will ultimately let us down, even if others look at us with admiration and we feed off the glory they give to us.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
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#64
We would call these admirable things "civic virtue". The person is a good citizen, but he is not producing spiritual fruit. And, the motivation behind his good works may ultimately be selfish.
You’ve mastered the art of taking lemonade and transforming it back into lemons.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#66
Well you may have to explain your question a bit more for a more precise answer lest confusion occurs and arguments arise. If your speaking of the gospel of Jesus then no they probably are not or at the very least simply don't understand which believe it or not is more common than you might think. But the problem with the word doctrine is that is a vague word.
Not because of the definition of the word but more like how people use it. Even withing the body doctrine is a huge war because one person believes a certain doctrine while another says it is false, but if you say preaching a false gospel people generally understand what your talking about
In my understanding of the scriptures, I believe they teach that if you sincerely believe that there is a God and worship the true God, then it is evidence that you have been born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Knowing the truths contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught is not what causes your eternal salvation. When we are born again, we start our spiritual journey as newly born babes in Christ and as we spiritually mature, some of the born again people, by hearing, and by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, began to understanding the preaching of the doctrine of Jesus. Isaiah 28:9. Some of the babes in Christ never grow to maturity, and, therefore, go about teaching and preaching doctrines, other than the doctrine that Jesus taught. They being ignorant of God's righteousness, and go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works, and have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:1-3. Christ instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's children) of the house of Jacob/Israel. The lost sheep are still babes in Christ, and are in need of being taught the doctrine of Jesus.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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#67
In my understanding of the scriptures, I believe they teach that if you sincerely believe that there is a God and worship the true God, then it is evidence that you have been born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Knowing the truths contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught is not what causes your eternal salvation. When we are born again, we start our spiritual journey as newly born babes in Christ and as we spiritually mature, some of the born again people, by hearing, and by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, began to understanding the preaching of the doctrine of Jesus. Isaiah 28:9. Some of the babes in Christ never grow to maturity, and, therefore, go about teaching and preaching doctrines, other than the doctrine that Jesus taught. They being ignorant of God's righteousness, and go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works, and have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:1-3. Christ instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's children) of the house of Jacob/Israel. The lost sheep are still babes in Christ, and are in need of being taught the doctrine of Jesus.
As far as if someone is truly saved or not I leave that for God to decide since only he can see the inner depths of their hearts, even if they do all of those things I don't like to assume anything because for all I know it may appear to be a facade of self righteousness but it also could be them doing what God called them for.
As far as doctrines go I also don't like to concern myself to much about that, debating our doctrines does have it's purpose but more often than not everyone believes their own views to the correct one and many will not budge in it and thus even if they are presented with the truth they will be blind to it.

So honestly I just seek his heart everyday and whatever doctrine or beliefs or views I have I leave for him to decide