Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
With all due respect; I’m not the one who has to rely on Greek tenses and imaginary meanings to prove a point from scripture.

I can just post a verse without further comment to expose your false doctrine.

But since you have been inoculated with OSAS, these passages have not effect on you. So naturally me just posting scripture is useless as well.
What don’t you rely on regarding John 3:16 regardless of the language?
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
What don’t you rely on regarding John 3:16 regardless of the language?
I relied on it for salvation.

And after obtaining salvation I rely on the Spirit through the word to endure to the end.

John 3:16 invites the unbeliever.

John 7:31-32 instructs the believer to continue to be proved a disciple indeed.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
366
29
28
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). It does not get any plainer.
The Greek text of James 2:23-24 reads,

23 καὶ ἐπληρώθη ἡ γραφὴ ἡ λέγουσα· Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην, καὶ φίλος θεοῦ ἐκλήθη. 24 ὁρᾶτε ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος καὶ οὐκ ἐκ πίστεως μόνον.

The Greek word δικαιοῦται is the cognate verb of Greek noun δικαιοσύνην. In A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. University of Chicago Press, 2000 we read on page 247 that the Greek noun δικαιοσύνην in the context of James 2:23 expresses the concept of the “quality or state of judicial correctness with focus on redemption action, righteousness. The italics are theirs. In the same lexicon, we read on page 249 that the Greek verb δικαιοῦται in the context of James 2:24 expresses the concept “to render a favorable verdict, vindicate.” The italics are theirs. In verse 24, James is writing that based on what he has written in vv. 14-23, we see that a man is vindicated by works and not by faith alone. Popular pastors and Bible teachers who claim that in verse 24 James is writing that a man is merely “shown to be righteous” having already been declared right through faith alone are either lying to defend their theology, or lack sufficient knowledge of the Greek New Testament to know what they are talking about.

As for Abraham, the Apostle Paul, quoting from Genesis 15:6 in the Septuagint rather than an ancient Jewish text, writes, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” However, an integral part of Abraham’s faith was his volitional obedience to God—and not just on this one occasion, but also throughout his life. James knew this very well and is bringing to his readers’ attention to this fact. Paul, of course, knew it no less well than did James, but in his writings, he is opposing the Judaizers who insisted that in order to be saved, a man must keep the Law. Most unfortunately, Paul is today read apart from this context by very many readers and thus seriously misunderstood to be teaching that we are saved by “faith alone”—a concept that is not found anywhere in the Bible but is found in a plethora of books and heard preached from very many pulpits.

Additional resources for the study of the Greek text of James are found in these commentaries on the Greek text of James:

McCartney, Dan G., 2009
Blomberg, Craig L. and Mariam J. Kamell, 2008
Moo, Douglas J., 2000
Martin, Ralph P., 1988
Davids, Peter H., 1982
Laws, Sophie, 1980
Adamson, James B., 1976
Ropes, James Hardy, 1916
Mayor, Joseph B., 1913

I have read all of these and have them here in my study.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
366
29
28
Paul did not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, then imply we are saved by good works. In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul clearly stated that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (not faith and good works). In verse 10, Paul goes on to say that we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. That's a far cry from being saved "by" good works. We are saved FOR good works and not by good works.

So we are not saved by righteous works. In Titus 3:5, Paul clearly stated that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. In 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul clearly stated that He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. *NOWHERE in the Bible does Paul state that we are saved "by" works of any kind (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) so once again, your saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) argument is bogus and your saved by good works teaching remained nearly universal till the 16th century Roman Catholic sales pitch is also bogus.
Titus 3:54. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6. whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7. so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(NASB, 1995)

These words were not written to a church who did not know Paul; they were written to his dear friend Titus (“my true child in a common faith”)—and, of course, Titus knew what Paul meant by the words “deeds which we have done in righteousness.” However, no one else knows for certain what Paul meant by those words, but to claim that he meant “deeds of any kind” flies in the face of Paul’s disputation with the Judaizers. And it also flies in the face of the explicit and irrefutable statement by James, “a man is justified (vindicated) by works and not by faith alone. “


Extensive searches over more than 150 years by reformed and other scholars for the teaching of justification by “faith alone” prior to the teaching of Martin Luther have found only eight men out of thousands who have so much as used the expression: Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexander, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Titus 3:54. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6. whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7. so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(NASB, 1995)

These words were not written to a church who did not know Paul; they were written to his dear friend Titus (“my true child in a common faith”)—and, of course, Titus knew what Paul meant by the words “deeds which we have done in righteousness.” However, no one else knows for certain what Paul meant by those words, but to claim that he meant “deeds of any kind” flies in the face of Paul’s disputation with the Judaizers. And it also flies in the face of the explicit and irrefutable statement by James, “a man is justified (vindicated) by works and not by faith alone. “


Extensive searches over more than 150 years by reformed and other scholars for the teaching of justification by “faith alone” prior to the teaching of Martin Luther have found only eight men out of thousands who have so much as used the expression: Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexander, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas.
The Greek text of James 2:23-24 reads,

23 καὶ ἐπληρώθη ἡ γραφὴ ἡ λέγουσα· Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην, καὶ φίλος θεοῦ ἐκλήθη. 24 ὁρᾶτε ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος καὶ οὐκ ἐκ πίστεως μόνον.

The Greek word δικαιοῦται is the cognate verb of Greek noun δικαιοσύνην. In A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. University of Chicago Press, 2000 we read on page 247 that the Greek noun δικαιοσύνην in the context of James 2:23 expresses the concept of the “quality or state of judicial correctness with focus on redemption action, righteousness. The italics are theirs. In the same lexicon, we read on page 249 that the Greek verb δικαιοῦται in the context of James 2:24 expresses the concept “to render a favorable verdict, vindicate.” The italics are theirs. In verse 24, James is writing that based on what he has written in vv. 14-23, we see that a man is vindicated by works and not by faith alone. Popular pastors and Bible teachers who claim that in verse 24 James is writing that a man is merely “shown to be righteous” having already been declared right through faith alone are either lying to defend their theology, or lack sufficient knowledge of the Greek New Testament to know what they are talking about.

As for Abraham, the Apostle Paul, quoting from Genesis 15:6 in the Septuagint rather than an ancient Jewish text, writes, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” However, an integral part of Abraham’s faith was his volitional obedience to God—and not just on this one occasion, but also throughout his life. James knew this very well and is bringing to his readers’ attention to this fact. Paul, of course, knew it no less well than did James, but in his writings, he is opposing the Judaizers who insisted that in order to be saved, a man must keep the Law. Most unfortunately, Paul is today read apart from this context by very many readers and thus seriously misunderstood to be teaching that we are saved by “faith alone”—a concept that is not found anywhere in the Bible but is found in a plethora of books and heard preached from very many pulpits.

Additional resources for the study of the Greek text of James are found in these commentaries on the Greek text of James:

McCartney, Dan G., 2009
Blomberg, Craig L. and Mariam J. Kamell, 2008
Moo, Douglas J., 2000
Martin, Ralph P., 1988
Davids, Peter H., 1982
Laws, Sophie, 1980
Adamson, James B., 1976
Ropes, James Hardy, 1916
Mayor, Joseph B., 1913

I have read all of these and have them here in my study.
Render a favorable verdict before men....not before God.

By Grace through Faith alone saves, and it is the instrument of spiritual salvation.... and James knew this for sure and in no way is teaching anything different.

Eight men out thousands shows Satan never tires in trying to subvert the Gospel.

Thankfully, the Reformation and the printing press meant the Bible was no longer under the lock and key of evil men.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,421
113
58
The Greek text of James 2:23-24 reads,

23 καὶ ἐπληρώθη ἡ γραφὴ ἡ λέγουσα· Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην, καὶ φίλος θεοῦ ἐκλήθη. 24 ὁρᾶτε ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος καὶ οὐκ ἐκ πίστεως μόνον.

The Greek word δικαιοῦται is the cognate verb of Greek noun δικαιοσύνην. In A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. University of Chicago Press, 2000 we read on page 247 that the Greek noun δικαιοσύνην in the context of James 2:23 expresses the concept of the “quality or state of judicial correctness with focus on redemption action, righteousness. The italics are theirs. In the same lexicon, we read on page 249 that the Greek verb δικαιοῦται in the context of James 2:24 expresses the concept “to render a favorable verdict, vindicate.” The italics are theirs. In verse 24, James is writing that based on what he has written in vv. 14-23, we see that a man is vindicated by works and not by faith alone.
As I already explained in post #136,745: In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). *I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.*

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evidence, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,421
113
58
Popular pastors and Bible teachers who claim that in verse 24 James is writing that a man is merely “shown to be righteous” having already been declared right through faith alone are either lying to defend their theology, or lack sufficient knowledge of the Greek New Testament to know what they are talking about.
Actually, the popular pastors and Bible teachers who claim that in verse 24 James is writing that a man is “shown to be righteous” having already been declared right through faith alone are correct. On the other hand, Roman Catholics, along with other works-salvationists who claim that in verse 24 James is writing that a man is "saved by works" are either lying to defend their theology, or not only lack sufficient knowledge of the Greek New Testament to know what they are talking about, but also lack the Holy Spirit and are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

As for Abraham, the Apostle Paul, quoting from Genesis 15:6 in the Septuagint rather than an ancient Jewish text, writes, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, (accounted as righteous by works) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *It does not get any plainer than that.

However, an integral part of Abraham’s faith was his volitional obedience to God—and not just on this one occasion, but also throughout his life. James knew this very well and is bringing to his readers’ attention to this fact.
Absolutely false. By saying that Abraham's obedience/works was an "integral part" of Abraham's faith, you are saying that his works are the "very essence" of his faith. Common error taught by works-salvationists. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation, then you are trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) but the actions/works are NOT INHERENT in the belief/faith. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I was also confused about this and basically "defined" faith "as" obedience/works and there was a reason for that.

Your argument reminds me of a discussion that I was in a little while back with a Roman Catholic who made this statement below right after he said that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Of course, his argument about faith being defined as and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. What I found very interesting was during our conversation, this Roman Catholic who made that statement above in blue just got through telling me that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then contradicted himself by stating that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above. It's all just Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors. :cautious:

Paul, of course, knew it no less well than did James, but in his writings, he is opposing the Judaizers who insisted that in order to be saved, a man must keep the Law. Most unfortunately, Paul is today read apart from this context by very many readers and thus seriously misunderstood to be teaching that we are saved by “faith alone”—a concept that is not found anywhere in the Bible but is found in a plethora of books and heard preached from very many pulpits.
Works-salvationists do not understand and relentlessly attack "faith alone." The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8.9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture above in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Additional resources for the study of the Greek text of James are found in these commentaries on the Greek text of James:

McCartney, Dan G., 2009
Blomberg, Craig L. and Mariam J. Kamell, 2008
Moo, Douglas J., 2000
Martin, Ralph P., 1988
Davids, Peter H., 1982
Laws, Sophie, 1980
Adamson, James B., 1976
Ropes, James Hardy, 1916
Mayor, Joseph B., 1913

I have read all of these and have them here in my study.
I already have all the resources I need on the study of the Greek text of James as found in various commentaries on the Greek text of James. We could argue "he saved vs. they said" all day long, but it won't change a thing. The bottom line for me is that *scripture MUST harmonize with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine.* Salvation through faith not works is not in harmony with salvation by faith and works.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* (y)

BTW I've noticed that twice now Micaiah-imia has given you a "like" for two of your posts that promote salvation by works, yet he claims that he does not teach salvation by works. Apparently, his true colors are shining through regardless of his claim.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
By Grace through Faith alone saves, and it is the instrument of spiritual salvation.... and James knew this for sure and in no way is teaching anything different.
Who told James that the Law of Moses was no longer valid?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,421
113
58
Titus 3:54. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6. whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7. so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(NASB, 1995)

These words were not written to a church who did not know Paul; they were written to his dear friend Titus (“my true child in a common faith”)—and, of course, Titus knew what Paul meant by the words “deeds which we have done in righteousness.” However, no one else knows for certain what Paul meant by those words, but to claim that he meant “deeds of any kind” flies in the face of Paul’s disputation with the Judaizers. And it also flies in the face of the explicit and irrefutable statement by James, “a man is justified (vindicated) by works and not by faith alone. “

Extensive searches over more than 150 years by reformed and other scholars for the teaching of justification by “faith alone” prior to the teaching of Martin Luther have found only eight men out of thousands who have so much as used the expression: Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexander, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas.
Titus 3:5 clearly states that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, (Literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the doctrine of meritorious works for salvation. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). Salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE still stands.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,421
113
58
Extensive searches over more than 150 years by reformed and other scholars for the teaching of justification by “faith alone” prior to the teaching of Martin Luther have found only eight men out of thousands who have so much as used the expression: Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexander, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas.
I'm not surprised. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:14) Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (faith plus what?...plus nothing...faith "apart from additions or modifications" - "faith alone") we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Most unfortunately, Paul is today read apart from this context by very many readers and thus seriously misunderstood to be teaching that we are saved by “faith alone”—a concept that is not found anywhere in the Bible but is found in a plethora of books and heard preached from very many pulpits.
Since you seem to think Paul preached salvation "by works and faith" can you find for me where Paul tells us how many works or how strong our life of obedience needs to be so we can be assured of salvation?

When I read Paul, I read a man who was utterly convinced of his own salvation (saved status) not someone waiting to see if he had done enough works to be allowed into Heaven.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Titus 3:54. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6. whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7. so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(NASB, 1995)

These words were not written to a church who did not know Paul; they were written to his dear friend Titus (“my true child in a common faith”)—and, of course, Titus knew what Paul meant by the words “deeds which we have done in righteousness.” However, no one else knows for certain what Paul meant by those words, but to claim that he meant “deeds of any kind” flies in the face of Paul’s disputation with the Judaizers. And it also flies in the face of the explicit and irrefutable statement by James, “a man is justified (vindicated) by works and not by faith alone. “


Extensive searches over more than 150 years by reformed and other scholars for the teaching of justification by “faith alone” prior to the teaching of Martin Luther have found only eight men out of thousands who have so much as used the expression: Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexander, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas.
If no one knows what Paul meant in writing unto Titus that includes you as well pal....and it seems obvious that you are another peddler of a works based dogma void of context (James).....you guys crawl out of the "woodwork" peddling your faith plus dogma to gain or maintain salvation and are akin to the snakes and vipers (Pharisees) that Jesus and others rebuked....

Paul ->>>JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD BY FAITH ALONE

JAMES --> THE ABOVE FAITH that justifies BEFORE GOD can be seen and JUSTIFIED BEFORE MEN BY WORKS

SHOW ME YOUR FAITH.......!!

Just another religionist here folks....nothing to see but a regurgitated Jehovah's Witness style faith plus works condemend by Galatians religious dogma....!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Since you seem to think Paul preached salvation "by works and faith" can you find for me where Paul tells us how many works or how strong our life of obedience needs to be so we can be assured of salvation?

When I read Paul, I read a man who was utterly convinced of his own salvation (saved status) not someone waiting to see if he had done enough works to be allowed into Heaven.
Another in the style of a J.W........another false gospel peddler void of contextual honesty!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Render a favorable verdict before men....not before God.

By Grace through Faith alone saves, and it is the instrument of spiritual salvation.... and James knew this for sure and in no way is teaching anything different.

Eight men out thousands shows Satan never tires in trying to subvert the Gospel.

Thankfully, the Reformation and the printing press meant the Bible was no longer under the lock and key of evil men.
He obviously rejects numerous truths that state clealry is if faith that saves and that any and all works are the result of the salvation one already possesses by faith.....he sounds just like a JW......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Titus 3:5 clearly states that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, (Literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the doctrine of meritorious works for salvation. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). Salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE still stands.
You noticed how he tried to qualify denying this truth by saying NO ONE CAN OR COULD understand what Paul meant.....this is how these deceivers keep their flocks lost and blinded to the truth...like David Koresh or Jim Jones....ONLY they can grasp and undersrand....sickening!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I'm not surprised. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:14) Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (faith plus what?...plus nothing...faith "apart from additions or modifications" - "faith alone") we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lord, Lord, have we not done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME.....BLAH BLAH BLAH

same dogma he espouses....Faith plus to enter....he won't make the cut....faith plus to gain or keep salvation = no power to save!!