THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

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Oct 25, 2018
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Why not?
Premise 1: Works prove saving faith.
Premise 2: Saving faith saves.
Conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.
Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation. Simple.
Nope.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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If your sin according to the standard of mathew 5:48 has been atoned for, why are you not sinless?
Because I live in the flesh. Why do you keep lying? Why do not reach the standard of Matthew 5:48?
 
Oct 25, 2018
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So when you do evil works now, are you living in rebellion to God and thumbing your nose at Him?
Nope. Brush up on all that being in Christ entails. You are dangerous with a bible in your hands. Very dangerous.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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IS DEMANDING CHRISTIANS TO PROVE THEY HAVE SAVING FAITH WITHOUT STATING A STANDARD TO CHECK FOR COMPLIANCE, MEANINGFUL?
If you say works accompany salvation, its fine. But if you go beyond and say that works prove saving faith, then you have to state the standard of works required to prove one has saving faith or else the standard of proof for having a saving faith becomes subjective and arbitrary to each individual and eventually making no sense except blabbery.
Lordship Salvationists are scared of stating the standard for fear of being exposed they have not met the standard themselves and looking like hypocrites!
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Salvation is the work of the Spirit not yours.
He never said anything of the sort. Please stop slandering ppl’s posts. Lying and slander are two sins that prove you’re not holding Matthew 5:48 close to your bosom.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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I don't need to skip past.

HOW DO LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS ACCUSE OTHER CHRISTIANS HYPOCRITICALLY?
Lordship Salvationists are sinful according to the Lord's command in mathew 5:48 & yet accuse christians who commit sin as "unsaved"!!!
If they had turned from their sins they would have obeyed the Lord's command in mathew 5:48!! They call Him Lord Lord in order to be saved but they don't do what He said in mathew 5:48.
In order to be saved, they have changed their mind by lowering the bar of what lordship requires in mathew 5:48 to suit their degree of sinfulness. Their concept of lordship is "diluted" & subjective and not according to mathew 5:48!!
Anyway they haven't repented according to mathew 5:48 but according to a standard which they invent subjectively. That's phoney lordship.

 
Oct 25, 2018
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I’ve put that 🤡 on ignore. He lies and slanders, which are two sins that prove he’s not perfect and also shows he doesn’t adhere to Matthew 5:48.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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I'm just the opposite and want to pay attention so he can be refuted. :)
He won’t be refuted. It’s blah blah blah Matthew 5:48. It’s blah blah blah LS teaches this. It’s blah blah blah LS is a heresy. It’s blah blah blah, you don‘t adhere to Matthew 5:48.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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He won’t be refuted. It’s blah blah blah Matthew 5:48. It’s blah blah blah LS teaches this. It’s blah blah blah LS is a heresy. It’s blah blah blah, you don‘t adhere to Matthew 5:48.
He won’t accept refutation, but refuting him factually will be seen by others.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).
"Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic." (Hard to Believe, p. 93)

The words posited in the OP were a publisher's error in the 2003, 1st Edition of John MacArthur's book, Hard to Believe. The errors were not discovered until the 1st Edition had already hit the bookshelves, but as soon as they were, the corrections that you see above (in bold) were made to the text, and a 2nd, corrected edition was released soon after.

It is important to note that the 1st Edition words (that seem to support the OP's false/incorrect definition of Lordship salvation) are not the words that the book's author (MacArthur) intended or wrote, rather, they were revisions made by an editor w/o his knowledge or consent. To be clear, Dr. MacArthur believes that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from good works (or anything else that ~we~ do).

Finally, Dr. MacArthur neither teaches nor believes the OP's unique definition of "Lordship Salvation" (that "one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live"), because that is NOT the correct definition of Lordship Salvation.

Here's the public statement that MacArthur and his broadcast ministry made concerning the 2003 1st Edition book errors and what they did to correct them.

Does John MacArthur teach salvation by works in his book Hard to Believe?
One paragraph in the first edition of Hard to Believe contained a glaring error that has the potential to mislead readers about the book’s whole intent. The problematic passage is the opening paragraph of chapter 6 (page 93), which seems to suggest that salvation is the fruit of godly living. The truth is exactly the opposite.​
The error was inadvertently introduced into the manuscript in the late stages of the editorial process, when (in order to simplify the book) four chapters were deleted from the original manuscript and one of the remaining chapters was severely abridged. John MacArthur approved the abridgments.​
Apparently, however, in an effort to make a new transition that would smooth over the deletions, an editor involved in the process made significant revisions to the opening of chapter 6. Unfortunately, that change was not submitted to John for approval. We believe the error was an oversight, and not anyone’s deliberate attempt to tamper with the book’s theology. The result, however, severely muddled the message of the book.​
A revision was sent to the publisher for future editions of the book. In all subsequent printings, here is how the opening paragraph of chapter six reads (revisions are in bold):​
"Don’t believe anyone who says it’s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God’s Son His life, and it’ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic."​

~Deut
 
Oct 25, 2018
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"Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic." (Hard to Believe, p. 93)

The words posited in the OP were a publisher's error in the 2003, 1st Edition of John MacArthur's book, Hard to Believe. The errors were not discovered until the 1st Edition had already hit the bookshelves, but as soon as they were, the corrections that you see above (in bold) were made to the text, and a 2nd, corrected edition was released soon after.

It is important to note that the 1st Edition words (that seem to support the OP's false/incorrect definition of Lordship salvation) are not the words that the book's author (MacArthur) intended or wrote, rather, they were revisions made by an editor w/o his knowledge or consent. To be clear, Dr. MacArthur believes that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from good works (or anything else that ~we~ do).

Finally, Dr. MacArthur neither teaches nor believes the OP's unique definition of "Lordship Salvation" (that "one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live"), because that is NOT the correct definition of Lordship Salvation.

Here's the public statement that MacArthur and his broadcast ministry made concerning the 2003 1st Edition book errors and what they did to correct them.

Does John MacArthur teach salvation by works in his book Hard to Believe?
One paragraph in the first edition of Hard to Believe contained a glaring error that has the potential to mislead readers about the book’s whole intent. The problematic passage is the opening paragraph of chapter 6 (page 93), which seems to suggest that salvation is the fruit of godly living. The truth is exactly the opposite.​
The error was inadvertently introduced into the manuscript in the late stages of the editorial process, when (in order to simplify the book) four chapters were deleted from the original manuscript and one of the remaining chapters was severely abridged. John MacArthur approved the abridgments.​
Apparently, however, in an effort to make a new transition that would smooth over the deletions, an editor involved in the process made significant revisions to the opening of chapter 6. Unfortunately, that change was not submitted to John for approval. We believe the error was an oversight, and not anyone’s deliberate attempt to tamper with the book’s theology. The result, however, severely muddled the message of the book.​
A revision was sent to the publisher for future editions of the book. In all subsequent printings, here is how the opening paragraph of chapter six reads (revisions are in bold):​
"Don’t believe anyone who says it’s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God’s Son His life, and it’ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic."​

~Deut
Wonderful, just wonderful. I had read something like this as well. Maybe the same article?

But the author of the OP won’t accept it. He‘ll just go about bashing LS, those who adhere to it he’ll call heretics, and lie about their beliefs(even after telling them they don’t believe what he says they believe), and slander them and their posts.


He‘s on a crusade to defend Matthew 5:48, why violating that verse and being the poster child of 1 John 3:8a. For someone who promotes sinless perfection, he does a lot of practicing sinning. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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Is attaining unto perfection not a work? You keep using Matthew 5:48 and having read the context, I cannot fathom what you are getting at. Would you be willing to be a little bit more plain?

I define many things as works, but they are just a byproduct of sanctification. Sanctification is a lifelong process.

Looking to them and pointing out what works "I've" done is actually quite difficult. I can say that any one that encourages me in my faith (that I do indeed have it) typically seems prepared aforehand and I just sort of walk in them. There's a scripture about that which I can find if you like.

I suppose a better way to say it is the works the Lord has allowed me to do or given me to do. Anything I do on my own is something like scribbles on a paper, pretty useless. What the Lord gives is like a coloring page, what I think goal is would probably be to color inside the lines and do a good job...occasionally I make mistakes on the drawing and color outside the lines, but with practice, this occurs less and less frequently. The colors are up to me, but what I am coloring is up to him...Does that help at all?
 
Sep 14, 2019
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No you don't make a point, you don't really engage with people, and you're just playing teacher. Have a good day man Jesus is obviously calling you, and although you say, "I don't trust in my works", you're lying to yourself, that's all you trust in because all you know is the flesh.
Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.