THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sudakar]

You should have realized by now that you made a huge mistake in starting this thread. But you have no business going around asking people what they have done or not done, and then trying to sit in judgment over them. You have a big enough job understanding the meaning of salvation and focusing on your own salvation.

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

 

[Sudakar]

I cant be disobiedient to Math. 5.48! Because this is no command to follow.
Well, show me only one Single Person who is perfect by his own strengh. Jesus spoke this for to show how people should be. Through Jesus death at the cross and takeing our sins. He is able to make us perfect. HE is doing it, not we!

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

 

[Sudakar]

Ok, so let me see if I am getting this right about your character Sudakar, you claim to prove your salvation by faith alone but apparently everyone else is by works, you claim to be perfect and sinless but we are all stupid sinful hypocrites. I mean honestly you cannot possibly be that blind no christian could possibly be this arrogant and judgemental and oblivious to their own faults.
I am genuinely confused as to why you are here, I mean seriously are you here to troll and play mind games to teach to expose ?

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

 

[Sudakar]

No one, NO ONE other than Christ Himself is perfect. He was the only one to walk this earth who was perfect. I'm not, YOU aren't. Period!




You're not sinless. If all of Jesus disciples who walked and talked with Him still failed and weren't perfect, you aren't!!




Nope, just one verse twisted out of context to make you and this Mc Arthur guy feel spiritually superior. Neither of you is perfect and sinless, if he's even alive today. Still he isn't/wasn't sinless.







No, you're wrong !!!!! You're making a doctrine out of one verse that you have twisted utterly out of context!!! You are wrong, you are not perfect, you are not sinless!!!!

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

 

[wolfwint]

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

Do you dont read the Text? You are writing something without reason. Really, what you want to say?

 

[Sudakar]

The BIBLE says that faith and works go had in hand. Works do not save, but a Christian will do good works because they love the Lord. Stop twisting the Word and read it!!!!!!

Doing works is different from trusting in good works to prove your saving faith.

 

[Sudakar]

Read the WORD!! That's the standard!!

James 2
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

1 Tim.-
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.


What are these verses saying in your POV? What do they mean? Don't throw Matthew at me, answer the question!! What are these verses saying and what standard are they setting?!

Don't confuse between doing works and trusting works.

 

[Sudakar]

Nope.

All your nopes beg the question.

 

[Ruby123]

Sigh. Is this thread still going??

 

[Sudakar]

Because I live in the flesh. Why do you keep lying? Why do not reach the standard of Matthew 5:48?

If you cannot live according to mathew 5:48 and you are a sinner according to mathew 5:48, God must have atoned for your sins through Christ's atonement. Why then do you yet say you are not sinless?

 

[Sudakar]

Nope. Brush up on all that being in Christ entails. You are dangerous with a bible in your hands. Very dangerous.

You do evil works now and yet claim you are not living in rebellion to God and thumbing your nose at Him but you accuse others of living in rebellion to God and thumbing nose at Him. Why the double standards?

 

[Sudakar]

Yes.

If your sins according to the standard mentioned in mathew 5:48 have been atoned for, why then do you yet consider yourself "not sinless"?

 

[Sudakar]

Why? 99.9% of them are incoherent gibberish.

The 99.9 gibberishness is in your mind not my posts because you suffer from the pride of trusting your works and not grace to prove your saving faith.

 

[Sudakar]

He doesn’t know. He’s all over the place with his psycho babble.

Psycho babble is yours as in your earlier posts you claimed works necessary to prove saving faith and then you do the upside down tumble.

 

[Sudakar]

He never said anything of the sort. Please stop slandering ppl’s posts. Lying and slander are two sins that prove you’re not holding Matthew 5:48 close to your bosom.

Represent your self righteousness. Don't advocate for others.

 

[Sudakar]

I’ve put that 🤡 on ignore. He lies and slanders, which are two sins that prove he’s not perfect and also shows he doesn’t adhere to Matthew 5:48.

It is you who pretended all along to comply with mathew 5:48.

 

[Sudakar]

He won’t be refuted. It’s blah blah blah Matthew 5:48. It’s blah blah blah LS teaches this. It’s blah blah blah LS is a heresy. It’s blah blah blah, you don‘t adhere to Matthew 5:48.

Exposing your hypocrisy of demanding to prove saving faith by works and then choosing a standard convenient to suit your lusts, can never be refuted indeed.

 

[Sudakar]

He won’t accept refutation, but refuting him factually will be seen by others.

Exposing the hypocrisy of demanding to prove saving faith by works and then choosing a standard convenient to suit one's own lusts, can never be refuted indeed.

 

[Sudakar]

"Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic." (Hard to Believe, p. 93)

The words posited in the OP were a publisher's error in the 2003, 1st Edition of John MacArthur's book, Hard to Believe. The errors were not discovered until the 1st Edition had already hit the bookshelves, but as soon as they were, the corrections that you see above (in bold) were made to the text, and a 2nd, corrected edition was released soon after.

It is important to note that the 1st Edition words (that seem to support the OP's false/incorrect definition of Lordship salvation) are not the words that the book's author (MacArthur) intended or wrote, rather, they were revisions made by an editor w/o his knowledge or consent. To be clear, Dr. MacArthur believes that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from good works (or anything else that ~we~ do).

Finally, Dr. MacArthur neither teaches nor believes the OP's unique definition of "Lordship Salvation" (that "one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live"), because that is NOT the correct definition of Lordship Salvation.

Here's the public statement that MacArthur and his broadcast ministry made concerning the 2003 1st Edition book errors and what they did to correct them.

Does John MacArthur teach salvation by works in his book Hard to Believe?​

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One paragraph in the first edition of Hard to Believe contained a glaring error that has the potential to mislead readers about the book’s whole intent. The problematic passage is the opening paragraph of chapter 6 (page 93), which seems to suggest that salvation is the fruit of godly living. The truth is exactly the opposite.​

​

The error was inadvertently introduced into the manuscript in the late stages of the editorial process, when (in order to simplify the book) four chapters were deleted from the original manuscript and one of the remaining chapters was severely abridged. John MacArthur approved the abridgments.​

​

Apparently, however, in an effort to make a new transition that would smooth over the deletions, an editor involved in the process made significant revisions to the opening of chapter 6. Unfortunately, that change was not submitted to John for approval. We believe the error was an oversight, and not anyone’s deliberate attempt to tamper with the book’s theology. The result, however, severely muddled the message of the book.​

​

A revision was sent to the publisher for future editions of the book. In all subsequent printings, here is how the opening paragraph of chapter six reads (revisions are in bold):​

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"Don’t believe anyone who says it’s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God’s Son His life, and it’ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic."​

​

~https://www.gty.org/library/Questions/QA508​

~Deut

Nonsense. Confessing faith alone in Christ's atonement is not a mere recitation.

If your good works is evidence of your saving faith, then your evil works must be an evidence of your lack of saving faith!! Does a living faith do evil works?

 

[Sudakar]

Wonderful, just wonderful. I had read something like this as well. Maybe the same article?

But the author of the OP won’t accept it. He‘ll just go about bashing LS, those who adhere to it he’ll call heretics, and lie about their beliefs(even after telling them they don’t believe what he says they believe), and slander them and their posts.


He‘s on a crusade to defend Matthew 5:48, why violating that verse and being the poster child of 1 John 3:8a. For someone who promotes sinless perfection, he does a lot of practicing sinning.

You disobey mathew 5:48 when it comes to prove you have saving faith and yet pretend you have saving faith.

I don't believe in my works to prove I have saving faith.