Leading a Revelation study

acts5_29 · May 24, 2020

Hi,

It looks like I will be leading a Bible study series on Revelation soon at my church. I thought I would try and draw from the collective wisdom of this board, and see what do you think are good ideas for leading a Revelation Bible study series? I figured that is what a Christian chat board is all about. Do you know of good Revelation study resources for leaders? Any thoughts on how to engage the group, or ground rules for social dynamics? This is supposed to be a small group, but with all the renewed interest in Revelation of late with the Covid crisis going on, I'm not so sure how "small" this group will really be.

A few talking points, so I can "seed" your input:

1) One reason we tend not to study Revelation is because we can't do it. It's divisive. We are simply incapable as a group of studying it together as a group. Yet we know this is not good. Revelation is a book in the Bible, and we need to be studying it.

2) People tend to get deeply entrenched in their individual camps. I will say, "Premillennial is *a* viewpoint," and somebody will come back and say, "No, that's the Bible. Revelation 20 says that is what will happen." So I need to get people uprooted from their trenches and study other views. Because that's what this is: a study.

3) Even "wrong" viewpoints are permitted to study. Even as Christians, we are encouraged to study the Koran and cults. We can STUDY anything. It doesn't mean we have to believe it--only understand it. Why can we study Koran, yet turn a blind spot when it comes to amillennialism?

4) I feel like a need a specific bullet item addressing Revelation's relationship with current events. It seems easy for someone to derail the discussion talking about some conspiracy theory, or whatever (this theory about Bill Gates creating the Mark of the Beast seems hot right now...); when my study is about the Bible. Some people don't even think Revelation relates to current events at all. A larger portion, I believe would say that Revelation relates to current events, but no more so than any other book of the New Testament does.

5) I feel like, in the name of keeping the study productive, that I should establish a ground rule which says you are required to allow others to present opposing viewpoints. If someone wants to present their case for postmill, give them the floor and don't argue with them. This is a study.

6) A large segment of Christians just throw up their hands and say they can't understand it. Lots of conflicting information out there--who do you believe? There's probably more of those people than there are argumentative people. What do I do to keep these people hooked, and engaged?

7) There seems to be a broad belief that Revelation contains a lot of non-essential truths (where "essential" would be something like, "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved." "There will be a pre-trib Rapture followed by a 7-year Tribulation" is not essential.). How do I keep THESE people engaged? If Revelation only contains non-essential truths, then why is it part of the Bible?

8) If I posted some lessons to this board as a first-pass, would that interest you?

CharliRenee · May 24, 2020

Hello acts...

i think it wonderful that you are doing a revelation study and I would be interested in your lesson.

I do wonder, though, about your reference to...

Even as Christians, we are encouraged to study the Koran and cults...< hmmm, where do we get that info from? I do not think it profitable to study quran or cults, for me anyway. I do not think poorly of those who might want to but do not feel we are encouraged to. Maybe you can help me understand where you are coming from. I think it best to stay in His lane, focusing on His ways, best we can, all with His help.

Also, I agree there are so many different schools of thought. I think it ok to discuss the different interpretations and say why you see it one way or another. After all, our final interpretation is between the Lord and ourselves right? Meaning that with every group study or teaching, we should always take it to the Lord and His word and pray about it in our One on One time.

For me, I do not like to study "end times" as much as just study His word.

Dave-L · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

Hi,

It looks like I will be leading a Bible study series on Revelation soon at my church. I thought I would try and draw from the collective wisdom of this board, and see what do you think are good ideas for leading a Revelation Bible study series? I figured that is what a Christian chat board is all about. Do you know of good Revelation study resources for leaders? Any thoughts on how to engage the group, or ground rules for social dynamics? This is supposed to be a small group, but with all the renewed interest in Revelation of late with the Covid crisis going on, I'm not so sure how "small" this group will really be.

A few talking points, so I can "seed" your input:

1) One reason we tend not to study Revelation is because we can't do it. It's divisive. We are simply incapable as a group of studying it together as a group. Yet we know this is not good. Revelation is a book in the Bible, and we need to be studying it.

2) People tend to get deeply entrenched in their individual camps. I will say, "Premillennial is *a* viewpoint," and somebody will come back and say, "No, that's the Bible. Revelation 20 says that is what will happen." So I need to get people uprooted from their trenches and study other views. Because that's what this is: a study.

3) Even "wrong" viewpoints are permitted to study. Even as Christians, we are encouraged to study the Koran and cults. We can STUDY anything. It doesn't mean we have to believe it--only understand it. Why can we study Koran, yet turn a blind spot when it comes to amillennialism?

4) I feel like a need a specific bullet item addressing Revelation's relationship with current events. It seems easy for someone to derail the discussion talking about some conspiracy theory, or whatever (this theory about Bill Gates creating the Mark of the Beast seems hot right now...); when my study is about the Bible. Some people don't even think Revelation relates to current events at all. A larger portion, I believe would say that Revelation relates to current events, but no more so than any other book of the New Testament does.

5) I feel like, in the name of keeping the study productive, that I should establish a ground rule which says you are required to allow others to present opposing viewpoints. If someone wants to present their case for postmill, give them the floor and don't argue with them. This is a study.

6) A large segment of Christians just throw up their hands and say they can't understand it. Lots of conflicting information out there--who do you believe? There's probably more of those people than there are argumentative people. What do I do to keep these people hooked, and engaged?

7) There seems to be a broad belief that Revelation contains a lot of non-essential truths (where "essential" would be something like, "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved." "There will be a pre-trib Rapture followed by a 7-year Tribulation" is not essential.). How do I keep THESE people engaged? If Revelation only contains non-essential truths, then why is it part of the Bible?

8) If I posted some lessons to this board as a first-pass, would that interest you?

What position do you have on Jesus teaching about the kingdom in the gospels? Spiritual or physical?

Dino246 · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

I would suggest reading Steve Gregg's book, "Four Views of Revelation".

wolfwint · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

Hi,

It looks like I will be leading a Bible study series on Revelation soon at my church. I thought I would try and draw from the collective wisdom of this board, and see what do you think are good ideas for leading a Revelation Bible study series? I figured that is what a Christian chat board is all about. Do you know of good Revelation study resources for leaders? Any thoughts on how to engage the group, or ground rules for social dynamics? This is supposed to be a small group, but with all the renewed interest in Revelation of late with the Covid crisis going on, I'm not so sure how "small" this group will really be.

A few talking points, so I can "seed" your input:

1) One reason we tend not to study Revelation is because we can't do it. It's divisive. We are simply incapable as a group of studying it together as a group. Yet we know this is not good. Revelation is a book in the Bible, and we need to be studying it.

2) People tend to get deeply entrenched in their individual camps. I will say, "Premillennial is *a* viewpoint," and somebody will come back and say, "No, that's the Bible. Revelation 20 says that is what will happen." So I need to get people uprooted from their trenches and study other views. Because that's what this is: a study.

3) Even "wrong" viewpoints are permitted to study. Even as Christians, we are encouraged to study the Koran and cults. We can STUDY anything. It doesn't mean we have to believe it--only understand it. Why can we study Koran, yet turn a blind spot when it comes to amillennialism?

4) I feel like a need a specific bullet item addressing Revelation's relationship with current events. It seems easy for someone to derail the discussion talking about some conspiracy theory, or whatever (this theory about Bill Gates creating the Mark of the Beast seems hot right now...); when my study is about the Bible. Some people don't even think Revelation relates to current events at all. A larger portion, I believe would say that Revelation relates to current events, but no more so than any other book of the New Testament does.

5) I feel like, in the name of keeping the study productive, that I should establish a ground rule which says you are required to allow others to present opposing viewpoints. If someone wants to present their case for postmill, give them the floor and don't argue with them. This is a study.

6) A large segment of Christians just throw up their hands and say they can't understand it. Lots of conflicting information out there--who do you believe? There's probably more of those people than there are argumentative people. What do I do to keep these people hooked, and engaged?

7) There seems to be a broad belief that Revelation contains a lot of non-essential truths (where "essential" would be something like, "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved." "There will be a pre-trib Rapture followed by a 7-year Tribulation" is not essential.). How do I keep THESE people engaged? If Revelation only contains non-essential truths, then why is it part of the Bible?

8) If I posted some lessons to this board as a first-pass, would that interest you?

Hi acts, If you would have an one view audiance ( like in your church), I would say it is a good idea. But because you will find here probably all Kind of Views it will be difficult. As one brother asks. Do you see literal,what others see Spiritual? Alone this difference can make you confuse. But go ahead and make your own expierience.

Roughsoul1991 · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

You could start by teaching possible interpretations. You can give your personal opinion but choose to allow discussion as you guide it in a healthy direction.

It is true that in order to defend against something as in the Koran we must know why the Bible and the Koran are technically incompatible.

I wouldn't even go into conspiracy theories. I would just focus on the major interpretations and possibly the history behind those beliefs.

Just tell people we here to study not to argue. If someone starts to argue, you take control.

Keep them engaged with video, images, interesting facts, or history, include discussion questions every 15 minutes. For longer studies allow break times. Possibly have food that energizes the brain. Bring it props or items that may be used to help teach. Possibly a PowerPoint or something visual. Study public speaking skills as in how to engage the audience and know who you are speaking to.

Other than that don't try to spoon-feed. If they want to learn, then they will be eager to hear what you have to say.

Do the homework with enough time for multiple proof reads and find a few people you trust to proof read it.

Scribe · May 24, 2020

What is your fellowship's view on interpretation of Revelation? Are you wanting to present the reasons why that interpretation is the one you believe the author intended? If so your study guide should be designed to accomplish that goal presenting the best heremeneutical reasons why you believe that is what the author intended. And I would think that is what your pastor would want you to do.

For example if you are coming from a pre tribulation premillenial view I would suggest Joseph A. Seiss The Apocalypse: Lectures on Revelations. It is in the public domain and you will be able to download it and print a section at a time. (it is over 800 pages) It is a very thorough scholarly verse by verse commentary. You will have to go through each Lecture and make your own notes for your bible study because he was very verbose and you will have to whittle it down to what you want to go over in each session. There are some things that you may not think are the correct interpretation but most things you will think are spot on.
I am currently reading authors from different views:
Stanley M Horton "Our Destiny" (Pretrib)
Craig Blomberg "A Case for Historic Premillennialism" (Posttrib)
Godon D Fee "Revelation" (Pretrib)
George Eldon Ladd "The Blessed Hope" (PostTrib)
George Eldon Ladd "Commentary on the Revelation of John" (PostTrib)
Joseph A Seiss "The Apolcalyspe; Lectures on the book of Revelation" (Pretrib)
James Stuart Russell "The Parousia" (ammillenialism)
Herman A Hoyt "The End Times" (PreTrib)
Stanley Horton: "The Ultimate Victory: An Expostion on the book of Revelation" (PreTrib)

So far Joseph A. Seiss has done the best job of presenting his reasons and following the rules of hermeneutics. He also does a good job of presenting other views and champions of those views from his time in the 1800s and demonstrating where their views violate rules of hermeneutics. But what is most impressive is the way he proves that you can understand the book of revelation with the bible as your only source, no history (other than the history mentioned in the bible) is needed. You and the bible on a desert island is sufficient to understand the book of Revelation. I think most people are more comfortable with this type of interpretation than any other and your group will become closer to Christ, and learn more about the heart and mind of Christ and they will find themselves living in the joy and expectation of His Coming as a result.

If your objective is to introduce your group to the different views on Revelation and to do it unbiased, you are going to have a difficult time being fair to each view unless you present the views from authors who do a good job of presenting their case and in the end you will have a frustrated group. I would not attempt this. All views cannot be true and you have to decide which is the closest to authorial intent and present that view, other wise you should not be leading a bible study on Revelation if you cannot decide yourself what God is saying. I am not saying you have to be perfect in your understanding. I am saying you need to make some kind of stand based on sound hermeneutics and present your reasons why you believe it is the correct interpretation or what exactly are you "leading"?

TheDivineWatermark · May 24, 2020

Scribe said:

If your objective is to introduce your group to the different views on Revelation and to do it unbiased, you are going to have a difficult time being fair to each view unless you present the views from authors who do a good job of presenting their case and in the end you will have a frustrated group. I would not attempt this. All views cannot be true and you have to decide which is the closest to authorial intent and present that view, other wise you should not be leading a bible study on Revelation if you cannot decide yourself what God is saying. I am not saying you have to be perfect in your understanding. I am saying you need to make some kind of stand based on sound hermeneutics and present your reasons why you believe it is the correct interpretation or what exactly are you "leading"?

I agree with this.

acts5_29 · May 24, 2020

CharliRenee said:

I have heard a couple times that the best way to recognize counterfeit money is to study the real thing. And yes, while that may be the BEST way, it is not the ONLY way. Nor do we have to choose between the two--we can do both.

If we want to reach Muslims, then studying Koran is a good idea. Likewise, if we want to understand false teachings, it is good to study what they are and where they come from. It is also good to challenge our faith, and understand why we believe what we believe. Why is the Bible true and the Koran not? How can you even begin to answer that question if you don't even know what Koran says, or how it came to be?

I have had a few Sunday School classes on world religion--that was the series we wished to study. So we got into Buddhism, Mormonism, New Age, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. etc.. Now when I hear, "Only 144,000 will get to Heaven," I can go, "Aha! That's a Jehovah's Witness teaching!"

TheDivineWatermark · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

If you are willing and able/prepared to do the same ^ with the "views on Revelation," then that's one thing.

But if not, that's another... Just to "present the 4 views [or however many... there are more than that] of Revelation" and that's it, supplying no final conclusion [or solid reasonings for ONE of those], for your class, this is what I would say is not a good idea.

acts5_29 · May 24, 2020

Possibly another word is "facilitating". It is the leadership style I choose. As facilitator, my job is to present the views--not to adopt or advocate them. Out of respect for all the other smart Christians in the church, my own belief camp I adopt should deserve no more weight than anyone else's. My job is to enable believers: not tell them what to believe. That's God's job. And Lord knows there's already more than plenty of competition out there for that job as it is.

MegMarch · May 24, 2020

I used to attend BSF, Bible Study Fellowship, as my small group, and about 4 years ago we studied Revelation. The lectures and homework were an extremely enriching source of study. The program holds high standards of exegesis. I highly recommend to at least check out what resources they may have available.

luigi · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

Hi,

It looks like I will be leading a Bible study series on Revelation soon at my church. I thought I would try and draw from the collective wisdom of this board, and see what do you think are good ideas for leading a Revelation Bible study series? I figured that is what a Christian chat board is all about. Do you know of good Revelation study resources for leaders? Any thoughts on how to engage the group, or ground rules for social dynamics? This is supposed to be a small group, but with all the renewed interest in Revelation of late with the Covid crisis going on, I'm not so sure how "small" this group will really be.

A few talking points, so I can "seed" your input:

1) One reason we tend not to study Revelation is because we can't do it. It's divisive. We are simply incapable as a group of studying it together as a group. Yet we know this is not good. Revelation is a book in the Bible, and we need to be studying it.

2) People tend to get deeply entrenched in their individual camps. I will say, "Premillennial is *a* viewpoint," and somebody will come back and say, "No, that's the Bible. Revelation 20 says that is what will happen." So I need to get people uprooted from their trenches and study other views. Because that's what this is: a study.

3) Even "wrong" viewpoints are permitted to study. Even as Christians, we are encouraged to study the Koran and cults. We can STUDY anything. It doesn't mean we have to believe it--only understand it. Why can we study Koran, yet turn a blind spot when it comes to amillennialism?

4) I feel like a need a specific bullet item addressing Revelation's relationship with current events. It seems easy for someone to derail the discussion talking about some conspiracy theory, or whatever (this theory about Bill Gates creating the Mark of the Beast seems hot right now...); when my study is about the Bible. Some people don't even think Revelation relates to current events at all. A larger portion, I believe would say that Revelation relates to current events, but no more so than any other book of the New Testament does.

5) I feel like, in the name of keeping the study productive, that I should establish a ground rule which says you are required to allow others to present opposing viewpoints. If someone wants to present their case for postmill, give them the floor and don't argue with them. This is a study.

6) A large segment of Christians just throw up their hands and say they can't understand it. Lots of conflicting information out there--who do you believe? There's probably more of those people than there are argumentative people. What do I do to keep these people hooked, and engaged?

7) There seems to be a broad belief that Revelation contains a lot of non-essential truths (where "essential" would be something like, "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved." "There will be a pre-trib Rapture followed by a 7-year Tribulation" is not essential.). How do I keep THESE people engaged? If Revelation only contains non-essential truths, then why is it part of the Bible?

8) If I posted some lessons to this board as a first-pass, would that interest you?

The Lord provides us with many correlations in His Word throughout the bible in regards to these end times. In addition to the obvious relation between the 10 horned beast in Daniel 7 with the seven headed 10 horned beast in Revelation 13; the three other beasts in Daniel 7 representing the world's three other socioeconomic systems during the end times which are separate from each other in Daniel 7 but united with the fourth beast in Revelation 13, I believe represent the four horsemen of the apocalypse in Revelation 6 prior to their unification, when the world appears all topsy turvy.

Scribe · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

In that case, if you are going to present each view without recommending or condoning one over the other, To keep it from becoming a argument session instead of a Bible Study you would have to present it like a fun project or an activity one might find in a Seminary. Where you are going to allow each student to take up the cause of one of the major views and use a resource such as a classic author who presents that view and then the student must use the rules of hermeneutics to persuade the rest of the group that their view is the best interpretation. This would require a lesson on the rules of heremeneutics and maybe a printed guide of the steps of hermeneutics they are to follow. This would allow everyone to see which view is weak and which is strong and at what point in bible interpretation (context, theology, cultural context, original language word meaning, etc). If you did not have students willing to do that, then you might have to play advocate for each view attempting to present the arguments from each view as presented by articulate authors of that view. At some point it will become obvious to you and your students which interpretations are in violation of the rules of hermeneutics and also which ones cannot be determined at this time. This kind of weekly study could last a year or longer but if done exhaustively and scholarly you would all have learned a lot about what the bible says concerning eschatology and what you believe is the correct interpretation. It sounds like a fun study. I would be interested in attending.

Nehemiah6 · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

Unfortunately the *collective wisdom* of this board will not help you since there are conflicting views on the interpretation of Revelation on this board.

And every Christian must decide on ONE consistent view, not four different views (as some suggest) which will simply confuse people. So firstly you will need to make up your mind as to whether Bible prophecies must be accepted in their plain literal sense (since even the symbolism is generally explained) or should they be interpreted allegorically, or spiritually, or based upon flights of fancy.

Personally, I take Scripture in its plain literal sense, comparing Scripture with Scripture, and ensuring that Revelation is interpreted in the light of the whole Bible from Genesis to Jude.

Let's take an example. We read in Revelation 5:5: And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Unless one goes to Genesis and other prophecies, one will not understand why Christ is called "the Lion of the tribe of Judah" and "the root of David".

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (Gen 49:9,10)

I'll leave "the Root of David" to you, since you must do your own personal study. But you should search out the meaning of "Shiloh".

DWR · May 24, 2020

I believe it very unwise to lead a study of any Bible book or subject that you have not first spent much time studying and have complete confidence that you understand the subject.

If you want to see the results of people teaching without understand just pick any subject in this forum and read what is presented.

MattforJesus · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

The nations will come together and work for peace on earth, and they stop the Gospel of Christ, and rebel against God, which God ends this sin business on earth.

And the reason for this is evolution which caused them to look at the Bible differently, as well as all religions, and reality.

And technology caused them to be able to communicate with each other, and cause their ways to spread throughout the world.

So leaders now, and even in America, are looking at the Bible according to evolution.

That is why they took prayer out of school, and taught evolution, and they believe they are going by the Bible.

This will make them very dangerous, and they are not godly.

People say conspiracy this, and conspiracy that, and new world order, and one world government, but the new age movement is the agenda and conspiracy.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but the Christ conscience came upon him, and He evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and do not believe in a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

Forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction.

Command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The time will come the world will want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and is the beginning of the end for the wicked.

Jesus said when they go against the saints, as well as all people that oppose them, that they are doing God's will for those people are upsetting the balance and harmony of nature.

This is how I believe the end time will go.

The nations will come together to work for peace on earth.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East which will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

The 7 years period will begin.

The Jews will rebuild their temple, and go back to animal sacrifices, with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.

The world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.

The New Age Christ will work as a great man of peace, and push the agenda of the new age movement, and the time the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but according to the new age movement, and they stop the preaching of the Gospel of Christ saying it is not the truth, and they want peace not division.

Salvation is available to the world for the first three and one half years, so the saints will remain on earth, which Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin claims to be God.

They also stop the preaching of Islam, and the spreading of it, and war breaks out between Islam and the world which is so terrible that the world lost hope, and the 10 horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace, and the world turns to the New Age Christ as the solution.

Which the 6 trumpets are warning to the world to repent, and turn to God, but they do not so God allows the man of sin to rule over them.

The 7 heads of the beast are the last 7 kingdoms prior to the beast, which the 10 horn kingdom is the 7th head which shall rule for a short space, three and one half years.

The New Age Christ claims to be God by evolving through nature and becoming greater and spiritual, and the false prophet does miracles to convince the world that the beast did receive power through nature, and shared this power with the false prophet, and will share this power with all who follow him.

The New Age Christ restored hope to the world, and they can have peace, and the deadly wound was healed the 10 horn kingdom that failed at peace, and the world said who is like unto the beast, and who can make war with him, for they believe he received power through nature that flesh and blood cannot fight against, and he will be able to establish his kingdom and no foe can stop him.

But we know Jesus will stop him, and he shall be broken without hand, and be destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming for the heathen's flesh will melt off their bones.

When they take the mark of the beast which is a microchip just under the skin linked to satellite to cut down on crime, find lost people, and things run smoother, salvation is no longer available to the world, and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in.

For the beast's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind, but their technology and devices can help to achieve peace on earth, and things operate better, so before the world takes the mark they know of the beast's agenda that it is all about people with no higher authority above them, and they worship the beast, so salvation is no longer available to the world, and God can put them down.

God will send the Jews 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior, and the Jews that know the truth will work with the other Jews that do not, and at the end of the last three and one half years the Jews will be in the truth, and the 70th week fulfilled.

For the last three and one half years the beast makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, which is a persecution on a world wide level which is why it is the great tribulation, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Father, and then He puts down all power, rule, and authority, and the kingdoms of the earth become the kingdoms of Christ.

Jesus will rule for 1000 years on earth over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon, and fulfill the role of perfect King on earth fulfilling the law.

At the end of the millennial reign heaven and earth shall pass away, and the former earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind, for it is associated with sin and rebellion.

The dead rise and are judged at the great white throne which some people can be saved at that time that has not heard the word of God, but lived according to love God, and love people.

For creation testifies that there is a God and of His attributes, which one of them is love, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, and testify of the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, so the world is without excuse, and our conscience bears witness what is good.

So if people that did not hear the word of God believed in a higher power that is love, and loves people, and they love God, and people to not offend them, which love is the fulfilling of the law, and ask God for forgiveness if anything is amiss they should be saved.

But they could not dwell with Jesus until then for they did not know about Him, and did not know the word of God.

The saints will then go to the New Jerusalem where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and they will remember nothing prior to that, and will feel like they have always been there, and nowhere else.

garee · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

I would say with all books but especallity the last chapter (Revelation) that altogether we have the whole we cannot know the plagues of that book with out familiarizing in other place the same phrases are used . Like the metaphor "thousand years" in the parable found in Chapter 20 , used 9 times through out always used to represent a unknown
Revelation is filled with the gospel metaphors collected from Genesis through Revelation .

A good study using the word 10 in multiples , 100, 1000 10,000 show the word is used as a metaphor or signified understanding. . Like with 144,000 an number know man can count . . to represent the bride of Christ the church.

From my experience the first verse in the book ( Revelation 1:1) in a book filled with metaphors instructs us not to literalize the unseen understanding hid from natural mankind. Perhaps studying the word "thousand" could provide a sort cut to the last day (a unknown)

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

acts5_29 · May 24, 2020

Scribe said:

Hi MegMarch and Scribe,

I really like the advice you two gave. MegMarch, I will be sure to check out BSF materials and see if there are good Leader guides.

Scribe, I love your idea about applying rules of hermeneutics. Do you have any good resources on hermeneutics for laymen (namely, which don't use the word "hermeneutics")? This is exactly the direction I want to go with a Revelation study: to provide plenty of FACTS, plus seamlessly integrate laws of hermeneutics into one study--particularly, laws which surely no one would honestly disagree with. However, I am operating under time constraints. These are not seminary students, and I only get so much time allotted. Some people, no doubt, have enough passion for this that they would put in as much time as any seminary student, though. They would just have to take that study offline as homework.

I definitely do want to engage them, and dole out tasks, assignments, leadership, mini-research topics, etc., as you suggested. I'm not so sure I want them to pick a viewpoint and advocate it using hermeneutics, though. I don't doubt the approach; I just want to distance us from debate, and stick with study. Maybe your approach is a good way to get people to study viewpoints that are not their own? Maybe I could find the premill in the room and have him lead a talk on the merits of amill.

Do you think *A* lesson on hermeneutics is doable? Or should it be lessons? I envision embedding this together with Revelation, so it's really a single topic: studying Revelation. As opposed to two divergent topics in one study--i.e. hermeneutics and Revelation. I have never seen a Revelation study before that does that. I feel like it's my 'secret sauce". I also want to make people understand that Revelation is not just an End times prophetic book that fortune-tells our future: it spills over into theologies, soteriology, our daily Christian walk, etc.. I want to combine this all into one thing. Or better yet: find someone else who has already combined this all into one thing before.

Everybody: do note that I am really interested in LEADER study resources. Learning hermeneutics is one thing. Learning how to TEACH hermeneutics is another.

garee · May 24, 2020

acts5_29 said:

Hi MegMarch and Scribe,

I really like the advice you two gave. MegMarch, I will be sure to check out BSF materials and see if there are good Leader guides.

Scribe, I love your idea about applying rules of hermeneutics. Do you have any good resources on hermeneutics for laymen (namely, which don't use the word "hermeneutics")? This is exactly the direction I want to go with a Revelation study: to provide plenty of FACTS, plus seamlessly integrate laws of hermeneutics into one study--particularly, laws which surely no one would honestly disagree with. However, I am operating under time constraints. These are not seminary students, and I only get so much time allotted. Some people, no doubt, have enough passion for this that they would put in as much time as any seminary student, though. They would just have to take that study offline as homework.

I definitely do want to engage them, and dole out tasks, assignments, leadership, mini-research topics, etc., as you suggested. I'm not so sure I want them to pick a viewpoint and advocate it using hermeneutics, though. I don't doubt the approach; I just want to distance us from debate, and stick with study. Maybe your approach is a good way to get people to study viewpoints that are not their own? Maybe I could find the premill in the room and have him lead a talk on the merits of amill.

Do you think *A* lesson on hermeneutics is doable? Or should it be lessons? I envision embedding this together with Revelation, so it's really a single topic: studying Revelation. As opposed to two divergent topics in one study--i.e. hermeneutics and Revelation. I have never seen a Revelation study before that does that. I feel like it's my 'secret sauce". I also want to make people understand that Revelation is not just an End times prophetic book that fortune-tells our future: it spills over into theologies, soteriology, our daily Christian walk, etc.. I want to combine this all into one thing. Or better yet: find someone else who has already combined this all into one thing before.

Everybody: do note that I am really interested in LEADER study resources. Learning hermeneutics is one thing. Learning how to TEACH hermeneutics is another.

Amen . Because there is only one teaching Master our Father in heaven we can share how we think we can hear God and seek his approval according to his living commandment to study rightfully dividing. (not adding or subtracting) We can do that work as we find the proper prescriptions . Seeing he has not left us as orphans and widows with no tools to find the mysteries of faith. But having no needs. . he supplies all the needs for us to hear and beleive. We plant and water he does the convicting and convincing.

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