Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal or just figurative?

[luigi]

Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal of putting a mark in foreheads/hand or just only figurative?
But it is rare to hear the mark of the beast is DEMOCRACY that enables to have a free enterprise TO BUY AND SELL.

I and probably everyone do not know exactly what the mark of the beast is, but if you look at the news in relation to how Covid-19 is severely changing the dynamics in the world's economies, it then is not hard to see it being to far away.

 

[iamsoandso]

I can assure you, there are millions of people in Hell right now who believe that spiritual death is quite literal.

Your seeing only the ones who worship the image...I'm asking about the ones who are killed because they do not worship the image. That is if they don't worship the image and are killed then they are spiritually alive and physically killed by the two horned beast because they wont worship the image . https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:15&version=KJV

In Revelation 19:19-21 is the same reasoning that is if they do worship the image and receive the mark then they are already dead spiritually so then if they are slain and the birds eat them and they were spiritually dead already then so a physical,carnal death is the only other death they could suffer. https://biblia.com/bible/niv/revelation/19/19-21

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And mine.
Garree's approach is correct. Jesus explicitly says the vineyard represents the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 20:1 is very specific about it:

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard."
So the fact that you are claiming the vineyard is Israel--or anything other than what Jesus explicitly said it was--undermines your credibility, in my book.

First off, "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is entirely earthly-located.

Secondly, I agree with Dino246, that "the vineyard" represents "Israel"... for Isaiah 5:7a states:

"For the vineyard of the LORD of Hosts is the house of Israel, [...]"

[Jesus knew this. ]


These passages re: "the vineyard" that Jesus speaks of, should be understood in view of this.



[ex: "And He was speaking this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit on it, and not did find any." Lk13:6... etc]

 

[just_truth]

 

[garee]

Diluting God's wrath is not heretical?

This is the book which says, "blessed are those who read the prophecy of this book and those who hear it and take it to heart."

And

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

As an example, I would also remind you about what Paul said regarding Hymeneus and Philetus who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. He said that it was godless chatter and that this teaching would spread like gangrene and that they had wandered away from the truth, as well destroying the faith of some.

Full Preterism teaches that the events of Matthew 24 and Revelation has already been fulfilled, including the resurrection. That would immediately put them in the Hymeneus and Philetus group, which means that what preterists teach is godless chatter, will spread like gangrene (and has) and that they have wandered from the truth.

Where did you get the idea of diluting God's wrath? ? ? The wage of sin remains the same death .Corrupted creatures dying.

Which wrath the one that is being revealed or the final judgment of the last day ?

 

[Dino246]

Jesus explicitly says the vineyard represents the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 20:1 is very specific about it:

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard."

So the fact that you are claiming the vineyard is Israel--or anything other than what Jesus explicitly said it was--undermines your credibility, in my book.

My credibility in your book doesn't concern me, and I suggest you take another look at the quoted sentence.

"The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner..." not, "The kingdom of heaven is like a vineyard...."

 

[garee]

I can assure you, there are millions of people in Hell right now who believe that spiritual death is quite literal.

Yes and the reason we must get the gospel out to them

God is a God of mercy not of God of eternal vengeance. Those who have not been given a new born again spirit. They will not rise on the last day. Their corrupted flesh and blood body returns to the dust and the spirit subject to the letter of the law "death" will return to the father who temporarily gave it.

Every living human being experiences the pang of hell the wage of sin daily the wrath being revealed daily. No sufferings for those dead and will not rise again.

Only those called dead asleep will awake on the last day and with the saints still here rise together.

 

[Dino246]

I can assure you, there are millions of people in Hell right now who believe that spiritual death is quite literal.

Yes and the reason we must get the gospel out to them

You two, together, are hilarious.

 

[garee]

You two, together, are hilarious.

???

Its only funny when two people are laughing and if you grin you're in. LOL

Its what happens when men do not walk by faith. No spiritual vision of the unknown unseen, dead is no longer dead just use a person imagination as a source of faith ..

Hell is the wage of under the letter of the law (death) The sufferings that comes with dying. No life after death for the unbeliever ,

The first death the death of the object, the second death the law that caused sufferings .People are no cast into the fire.
Their fire sufferings ends when they take the last breath.

On the last day the letter of the law "death" and hell the sufferings that accompanied the wage . It will cast into the fire of God's eternal Judgment and never rise and condemn to death through corruption ever again forever more.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Guojing]

lol, You seem to know why I ask and understand it might mean something to camp A,B,C or D,,,it's probably profitable if they consider their camps position on the matter while looking at the question.

As I told him before, he is the first person I came across who strongly insisted that there is only one gospel for all times, which indicated that he subscribes to Covenant Theology.

At the same time, he insisted just as strongly that there is a pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ.

I have never came across anyone else who holds these 2 views at the same time.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Then the angel comes with the Everlasting Gospel when it was already preached by Paul and the others, and so by then it is misunderstood,corrupted,forgotten or something. So then do you think this is past tense, future tense or present ,,,is it before or after the rapture?

You know my answer to that iamsoandso .

First of all, we have look also at what the third angel is proclaiming, which is a warning to those who receive the mark of the beast and its consequences. This would put us somewhere in the middle of the seven years. It is by the grace of God that this angel is warning all people regarding this mark. Therefore, those who receive it will do so willfully knowing the truth and will seal their own fate.

Since the angel will be preaching the everlasting gospel around after the sounding of the 7th trumpet and during the time that the mark of the beast becomes the only method for buying and selling, then it would put his announcement well into the time of God's wrath. And since believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, then the church will have been removed prior to this before the first seal is opened, which initiates God's wrath.

These events of wrath are not for the church, but for those who will have continued to reject Christ and continue in their sexual immorality, the murders, drunkenness, drug use which is sorcery, worshiping the works of their hands, liars, thief's and all of those who continue living according to the sinful nature.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Your argument is invalid because you are equivocating "preterism" with "full preterism".

I believe that I cited 'full preterism' in one of the previous posts.

 

[Guojing]

So your saying that the Gospel that the angel in Rev.14:6 delivers is the exact same Gospel as Paul delivered and spoke of in Galatians 1:8?

If you read what will take place during the Tribulation in Revelations, it cannot be exactly the same gospel.

Paul tells us that we are permanently sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe in 1 Cor 15:1-4

But in the Revelations gospel, one must endure to the end of the 7 years to be saved. Mark 13:13, Matthew 24:13

As I have stated, one who accepts 1 Cor 15:1-4 in year 1 of the tribulation, he cannot be sure he is truly saved, until he made sure that he does not accept the mark of the beast by the end of year 7.

The moment he gives in because he wants to buy and sell stuff, he is thrown to the lake of fire (Rev 14)

 

[iamsoandso]

As I told him before, he is the first person I came across who strongly insisted that there is only one gospel for all times, which indicated that he subscribes to Covenant Theology.

At the same time, he insisted just as strongly that there is a pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ.

I have never came across anyone else who holds these 2 views at the same time.

Benjamin Wills Newton and Darby were divided on the same matter from the beginning of the Plymouth Brethren. The issue was post tribulation verses pre tribulation rapture and the twelve in or twelve out of the BOC debate came about because of this I think. I don't think he realizes it yet that the Gospel the angel delivers would determine if he's pre or post trib. based on how he answers the question so I ask it.

 

[acts5_29]

Yes and the reason we must get the gospel out to them

God is a God of mercy not of God of eternal vengeance. Those who have not been given a new born again spirit. They will not rise on the last day. Their corrupted flesh and blood body returns to the dust and the spirit subject to the letter of the law "death" will return to the father who temporarily gave it.

Every living human being experiences the pang of hell the wage of sin daily the wrath being revealed daily. No sufferings for those dead and will not rise again.

Only those called dead asleep will awake on the last day and with the saints still here rise together.

Do you believe in soul sleep and/or annihilation?

Do you believe no Revelation Bible study would be complete without covering those two topics?

 

[iamsoandso]

If you read what will take place during the Tribulation in Revelations, it cannot be exactly the same gospel.

Paul tells us that we are permanently sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe in 1 Cor 15:1-4

But in the Revelations gospel, one must endure to the end of the 7 years to be saved. Mark 13:13, Matthew 24:13

As I have stated, one who accepts 1 Cor 15:1-4 in year 1 of the tribulation, he cannot be sure he is truly saved, until he made sure that he does not accept the mark of the beast by the end of year 7.

The moment he gives in because he wants to buy and sell stuff, he is thrown to the lake of fire (Rev 14)

Your saying this to me based on the question I ask. I ask him because of what he he said in post #122 "there is only one true gospel". So there is only one true gospel or their not quite the same as you say. If there's two and the other is the "everlasting" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm then the glad tidings referred to in Galatians was not everlasting?

If so then it is replaced and Paul said that even an angel is cursed if they peach any other gospel https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+1:8-9&version=KJV ...

In that day when the angel preaches that everlasting gospel then those who convert to Christianity will remember what Paul said in Galatians and not be able to believe the angel in Rev.14:6 if it is not quite the same wouldn't you think?

 

[Guojing]

Your saying this to me based on the question I ask. I ask him because of what he he said in post #122 "there is only one true gospel". So there is only one true gospel or their not quite the same as you say. If there's two and the other is the "everlasting" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm then the glad tidings referred to in Galatians was not everlasting?

If so then it is replaced and Paul said that even an angel is cursed if they peach any other gospel https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+1:8-9&version=KJV ...

In that day when the angel preaches that everlasting gospel then those who convert to Christianity will remember what Paul said in Galatians and not be able to believe the angel in Rev.14:6 if it is not quite the same wouldn't you think?

People who subscribed to Covenant Theology generally see their Covenant of Grace in ALL the gospels stated in Scripture. They find it difficult to understand that the term gospel simply means "good news".

It does not always have to be "good news that saves".

 

[garee]

Do you believe in soul sleep and/or annihilation?

Do you believe no Revelation Bible study would be complete without covering those two topics?

They would be part yes .

I call it dead asleep. Like with Lazarus he was first told he was dead .and then to explain what kind of death Jesus said dead asleep. . He woke of Lazarus after four, three for Jesus, three for Jonah . Abel would have the longest nap .

 

[acts5_29]

They would be part yes .

I call it dead asleep. Like with Lazarus he was first told he was dead .and then to explain what kind of death Jesus said dead asleep. . He woke of Lazarus after four, three for Jesus, three for Jonah . Abel would have the longest nap .

A loss of consciousness until Judgment Day, that's soul sleep, as I understand it.

You seemed to imply you might believe in annihilation. Do you believe those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are thrown in the Lake of Fire and annihilated? I ask because just 30 minutes ago, it never would have occurred to me to even cover the topic.

 

[iamsoandso]

People who subscribed to Covenant Theology generally see their Covenant of Grace in ALL the gospels stated in Scripture. They find it difficult to understand that the term gospel simply means "good news".

It does not always have to be "good news that saves".

In Acts 15 there is the letter that they wrote to the gentiles about this and what they thought. In Acts 15:1 some didn't think they were saved and in Acts 15:11 Peter said how he thought they both were saved https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=KJV . Were the gentiles under the covenant made in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9&version=NIV when the Apostles met in Acts 15?