THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sudakar]

Of course works don't save, that's elementary, yet you need to read 1 John, its teachings contradict yours as you deny evidence of conversion and marks of false conversion.

Have you been brought to repentance of your open theism heresy?

Your trust in your works to prove you have saving faith is absolutely no different from trusting in works based salvation. You cannot prove it otherwise.

 

[Sudakar]

My opinion is that you should begin to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Rightly divide?
Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

 

[Sudakar]

Everybody knows this. You're preaching to the choir.

Unless you want to address unbelievers, and fringe movements of unbelievers associating themselves with the true church there is no reason to keep bringing this up in the church. Especially now since the new osas movement in the church uses it to rationalize the unchanged lives of unbelievers masquerading as believers in the church. It's now time to put this argument to rest and start growing the church up to mature behavior in Christ and stop rationalizing the flagrant sin of unbelievers among us.


Truly saved people live new, different lives focused on righteousness, aiming for perfection. Unsaved people do not.

7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 3:7-8, 9-10

So, as John says, don't be deceived. Righteous people practice righteousness, just as He is righteous, while those who practice sin are of the devil. And this has nothing to do with works earning salvation. It has everything to do with saved people being new creations in Christ who now struggle against sin. A struggle that if not visible in a person shows them to not be a new creation in Christ.

Are you catholic believing in works based salvation?

 

[Sudakar]

Answer my question first.

Recent from heresy and be saved. You will face God's wrath soon.

 

[Elderdave]

if Jesus is not your Lord: He is not your savior!

 

[cv5]

Works not only fails to save but also fails to prove you have saving faith.

"but also fails to prove you have saving faith"
Rubbish. The scripture concludes exactly the opposite time and time and time again.

 

[cv5]

If it was grace which worked through paul, how could the work become his labor let alone the reward be based on his labor?

It is and it does and it is all by grace. The supporting Scriptures have already been posted.
There is no paradox there is no conflict it's all in your addled and evidently ignorant mind.

 

[cv5]

"Works prove saving faith" theory eventually amounts to "works based salvation" theory.

Go tell that to Jesus, John the Baptist, James or Paul. And truly "good" works only come about after you have been saved not before.

 

[cv5]

James talks about faith in one God and not about the faith in Christ's atonement which saves apart from works.

Your vacuous one-liners mean jack squat if you can't back them up with substantive Scripture.

 

[Sudakar]

Answer my question first.

Repent from the heresy of works based salvation and be saved.

 

[Sudakar]

I’ll take that as a no, you are an unrepentant open theist heretic. That, and you deny the biblical teachings of evidence of conversion and marks of false conversion. You’re in error and don’t think logically: there are sins that show one to be unconverted though professing salvation.

Reformed Theology isn’t fatalism, you’re simply showing more of your ignorance of what fatalism is and conflate it with a holy God and His ways which may well be hostility toward Him, Colossians 1:21.
Contrary to your capricious beliefs (a form of atheism) God knows every single detail of all future events, has disclosed to us the end of all things He has determined, will not be thwarted in His plan as all end according to His purpose, counsel and will exactly as He has decreed, all to His Glory, as He actually is God.

You loathe these facts and deem God unfair.

Fatalism is a metaphysical theory that all things are driven by an impersonal force. That isn’t the Reformed view. To the contrary this age is driven by God who has decreed whatsoever comes to pass, thus whatsoever He has determined as God isn’t impersonal, but is determined by a Triune Personal God who is just, holy, sovereign, kind, loving, and merciful. His determined plan is therefore not fatalism, it is all to His Glory.

Proving you have saving faith by your works isn't reformed as it is no different to works based salvation theory.

 

[Sudakar]

Go tell that to Jesus, John the Baptist, James or Paul. And truly "good" works only come about after you have been saved not before.

"And truly "good" works only come about after you have been saved not before" has nothing to do with proving you have saving faith by your good works!!

 

[Sudakar]

Your vacuous one-liners mean jack squat if you can't back them up with substantive Scripture.

Read James 2:19.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Repent from the heresy of works based salvation and be saved.

FYI, no one is averring a works based salvation. Lying comes way too easy for you.

 

[cv5]

"And truly "good" works only come about after you have been saved not before" has nothing to do with proving you have saving faith by your good works!!

The doers have nothing to prove. Their works, issuing forth from an already transformed heart and life, speak for themselves. It's the vacuous blabbermouths who have no works who are in trouble buddy.

 

[DorothyMae]

Right there is the problem with lordship salvation. How does an unsaved person "cease from sin" in order to become saved? The unsaved person hasn't become a new creature yet. In order to 'cease from sin', he must be born of God.

Anti-lordship salvation people (such as myself) agree that the unsaved sinner must recognize that Jesus is Lord in order for Him to become their Savior. That was true of the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailer - but that's not "lordship salvation".

Lordship salvation mixes up the freeness of salvation and who paid the full price for it, with the costliness of discipleship and who pays that cost.

Interesting. It seems the non-lordship camp removes obeying/following Jesus from being a part of salvation. All of the disciples knew it was vital. I bet the flesh loves that theology.

 

[Deuteronomy]

.......your good works are not the basis for what God considers to be a proof you have saving faith.

Hello again Sudakar, no only is God the One who declares us just, unlike us, He's able to see/know our hearts. So God needs no proof of who is and who isn't saved ............................... but we do .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5!

Secondly, only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement as only proof they have saving faith. The rest who trust in works for the same aren't yet saved!

1. You said, "only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement"? Please elaborate/what does that statement of yours mean, exactly

2. How do we know if someone is "elect" or not

Thanks

~Deut

Ephesians 1​

4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.​

James 2​

18 Someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”​

​

 

[Sudakar]

FYI, no one is averring a works based salvation. Lying comes way too easy for you.

Your lie of trusting in the law and claiming to be under grace is indeed a lie.

So you don't trust your works to prove you have saving faith?

 

[Sudakar]

The doers have nothing to prove. Their works, issuing forth from an already transformed heart and life, speak for themselves. It's the vacuous blabbermouths who have no works who are in trouble buddy.

So what do your evil works speak for, blabbermouth?

 

[DorothyMae]

Your trust in your works to prove you have saving faith is absolutely no different from trusting in works based salvation. You cannot prove it otherwise.

I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the poster, Preacher4truth.