Leading a Revelation study

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G

garee

Banned
#41
Mar 28, 2016
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#41
DorothyMae said:
I read this three times and no idea what you are talking about. I’m afraid Revelation is easier to understand than this sentence.
Same. I have no idea what you want to say.
Same... clueless Who says God is a creature?This I completely understand.
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Sorry for any extra work my writing skills do suffer.

Yes he is much better at helping us to understand his signified tongue . Nothing needs to be added to His word. we offer what we think he is teaching us. One is our Master teacher in heaven

The prescription to mix with faith so that we can receive the hidden signified gospel understanding. It is a reflection of Hebrew 4:1 4 showing us we can rest when yoked with Christ our sabbath. The gospel rest .

We do not wrestles against flesh and blood the temporal things seen and neither or do we derive any power from the corrupted flesh and blood.

Revelation 1;1 reveals the interpreting tool or prescription needed to rightly divide the parables. Like the Revelation 20
parable. Using the temporal to signify the eternal vison not seen. (2 Corinthians 4:18) The vision of faith the golden measure

.Many say God is a man popular in many Christian circles. . A creature as us having a beginning. God is not a man and neither is there a fleshly infallible teacher set between God not seen and man seen
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#42
Nov 26, 2012
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#42
acts5_29 said:
Everyone and their dog is a self-described scholar. When I go to work every day, everyone in the room is the smartest person in the room.

Dealing with that is part of the job.
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If you are teaching the lesson, you should be the most studied person in the room. If you’re not it won’t take long for them to see that.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#43
Jun 30, 2015
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#43
garee said:
Sorry for any extra work my writing skills do suffer.
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There's a really simple solution to that: take a class.

garee said:
Many say God is a man popular in many Christian circles.
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Quote any Christians who says this. Even one person. Actual quotations, not assertions.
 
G

garee

Banned
#44
Mar 28, 2016
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#44
Dino246 said:
There's a really simple solution to that: take a class.


Quote any Christians who says this. Even one person. Actual quotations, not assertions.
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Actual quotations, not assertions of what? God is not a man and neither is there a Good Master set between God not seen and man seen? Only one is good God. the teaching Master as Lord.

Yes teacher.. wish I had you in fifth grade English. Four hardest years of my life.

Kind of hard to teach older dogs tricks . Thanks
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#45
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
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#45
garee said:
Actual quotations, not assertions of what?
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Actual quotations of real human beings who claim that God is a man, not your own assertions about what some (unnamed) people believe. Do you have that much trouble understanding what is requested of you?
 
A

acts5_29

Active member
#46
Apr 17, 2020
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#46
Hungry said:
If you are teaching the lesson, you should be the most studied person in the room. If you’re not it won’t take long for them to see that.
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You do realize that studying Revelation before you lead Revelation is a lesson straight from Captain Obvious, right?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#50
Apr 22, 2013
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#50
acts5_29 said:
I have heard a couple times that the best way to recognize counterfeit money is to study the real thing. And yes, while that may be the BEST way, it is not the ONLY way. Nor do we have to choose between the two--we can do both.

If we want to reach Muslims, then studying Koran is a good idea. Likewise, if we want to understand false teachings, it is good to study what they are and where they come from. It is also good to challenge our faith, and understand why we believe what we believe. Why is the Bible true and the Koran not? How can you even begin to answer that question if you don't even know what Koran says, or how it came to be?

I have had a few Sunday School classes on world religion--that was the series we wished to study. So we got into Buddhism, Mormonism, New Age, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. etc.. Now when I hear, "Only 144,000 will get to Heaven," I can go, "Aha! That's a Jehovah's Witness teaching!"
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Nowhere in Scripture are we told to study false religions or prophets.
In fact we are told the opposite.

I understand the thinking behind studying them, but that is human logic. Not Scriptural at all.

Oh, and Premillennialism is unBiblical. Start your study there!
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#51
Dec 20, 2017
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#51
The most important thing about The Revelation of Jesus Christ is not all the "isms" & "ists" and learning what THEY teach about it.
There are so many rabbit holes. The most important thing is the Revelation points us back to research all the prophets seriously.
So many Christians seem to disregard the "Old" Testament, relegating those books to moral lessons & history only.
Bible study shouldn't be overly reliant on New Testament teachings to the exclusion of the foundational books.

I honestly think that one of the reasons God put The Revelation book at the end of the collection was to force Gentile New Covenant believers to examine the prophetic books of scripture as a whole and in detail.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#52
Nov 26, 2012
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#52
PennEd said:
Nowhere in Scripture are we told to study false religions or prophets.
In fact we are told the opposite.

I understand the thinking behind studying them, but that is human logic. Not Scriptural at all.

Oh, and Premillennialism is unBiblical. Start your study there!
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Where in the Bible are told not to study false religions? Worship false gods and idols yes, but I thought attaining knowledge was always beneficial.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#53
Nov 26, 2012
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#53
PennEd said:
Nowhere in Scripture are we told to study false religions or prophets.
In fact we are told the opposite.

I understand the thinking behind studying them, but that is human logic. Not Scriptural at all.

Oh, and Premillennialism is unBiblical. Start your study there!
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Also, if Christ does not physically return and defeat our enemies then reign until the next (final) uprising (thousand years), CLEARLY written in scripture, then what is the Bible actually describing.....according to you?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#54
Apr 22, 2013
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#54
Hungry said:
Also, if Christ does not physically return and defeat our enemies then reign until the next (final) uprising (thousand years), CLEARLY written in scripture, then what is the Bible actually describing.....according to you?
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I think you got me mistaken for someone else. I believe exactly what you just wrote.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#55
May 24, 2014
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#55
For myself, I find it easier to start at the last section of Revelation because it seems to offer a much more literal view and description. I find that most of the frustration and argument stems from trying to interpret the symbolism-so-called in the earlier sections of Revelations.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#56
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#56
PennEd said:
Nowhere in Scripture are we told to study false religions or prophets.
In fact we are told the opposite.

I understand the thinking behind studying them, but that is human logic. Not Scriptural at all.

Oh, and Premillennialism is unBiblical. Start your study there!
Click to expand...
Premillennialism is what I described and what you called unBiblical, so maybe you used the wrong term? Pretribulation Rapture maybe?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#57
Apr 22, 2013
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#57
Hungry said:
Premillennialism is what I described and what you called unBiblical, so maybe you used the wrong term? Pretribulation Rapture maybe?
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You are correct sir. I’m sorry. I did get the verbiage wrong. Thanks for pointing that out in a respectful way.
 
A

acts5_29

Active member
#58
Apr 17, 2020
327
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#58
Lucy-Pevensie said:
The most important thing about The Revelation of Jesus Christ is not all the "isms" & "ists" and learning what THEY teach about it.
There are so many rabbit holes. The most important thing is the Revelation points us back to research all the prophets seriously.
So many Christians seem to disregard the "Old" Testament, relegating those books to moral lessons & history only.
Bible study shouldn't be overly reliant on New Testament teachings to the exclusion of the foundational books.

I honestly think that one of the reasons God put The Revelation book at the end of the collection was to force Gentile New Covenant believers to examine the prophetic books of scripture as a whole and in detail.
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I do not contest that. Certainly, the isms and ists are not the MOST important thing, and drawing God's word out of God's Word is. But, like I said in my analogy about studying false religions (and that is an ANALOGY, people...), it does not mean we have to exclude study of the isms and ists altogether. We have a 1900-year history of Christians reading the same book we are. And premillennialism is not even a false religion--it is simply an interpretation of Revelation which some believe is an incorrect one. Simply to shut out what many God-fearing Christians studied before us, I do not think is in God's design. It is about your relationship between you and the Father, but it is not ONLY about your relationship between you and the Father.

Related to what you said in the last part, I'm beginning to believe that one of the reasons Revelation is there (and last in the canon) is related to ecclesiology. The way we interact as believers relating to Revelation is a reflection on the state of the Church. Group study of Revelation reveals in us our pride and arrogance in our attitudes, our methods of resolving conflict (or our failure to) with other believers, our priorities of essential versus non-essential beliefs, and our ability simply to communicate. And it challenges us to improve on where we fall short. People have this idea that Revelation is primarily a crystal ball--a secret decoder ring--into the future. But Jesus has so much bigger ideas in mind.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#59
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#59
acts5_29 said:
Related to what you said in the last part, I'm beginning to believe that one of the reasons Revelation is there (and last in the canon) is related to ecclesiology. The way we interact as believers relating to Revelation is a reflection on the state of the Church.
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I'm all for agreeing to disagree on certain matters, but I wonder...

Let's say you have 20 people come to your class, each having only a cursory grasp of Revelation (never really having studied it themselves before), and so they are COMING because they WANT TO KNOW "what it MEANS" and have questions about it... and you present "The 10 Views of Revelation" (covering one view per week--reading from the authors and teachers of said viewpoints, each week), thusly:

1) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

2) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

3) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

4) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

5) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

6) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

7) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

8) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

9) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

10) [such and such teacher says it means] ____________

[insert a different "viewpoint" into each of the above "blanks"]



By the end of your class, will you feel the "class" has been a success if those having COME TO ATTEND, come away with "10 different views" (2 each, for the 10 different viewpoints)?


And they feel they are then prepared to teach others also, each of those "10 Views" separately (the one particular viewpoint each of them thought sounded best)... like, in your church, for the next go-round? Do you feel that would be considered a success, in your estimation?



By the way, I don't believe it's a bad thing to explain what the other viewpoints state and explain WHY they come to those conclusions, I just don't see how it would be productive to leave it at that and not supply the reasons why one view is far and above the rest, because not all of them can be true, and the last thing you'd want is for the result of the class be "even further confusion," IMO.



[comparing this to your analogy of covering the Subject of "religions / religious viewpoints"... there's an ultimate goal and purpose of showing which viewpoint is CORRECT, right? You're not satisfied with merely exposing people to the various "religions" to no PURPOSE (just letting them randomly pick Buddhism, for themselves), right? You have an ultimate OBJECTIVE: ascertaining TRUTH, right?]
 
A

acts5_29

Active member
#60
Apr 17, 2020
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#60
Scribe said:
"How to Read the Bible For all It's Worth" by Gordon Fee is a classic on learning hermeneutics without using the word hermeneutics. It is often quoted in other books as a suggested guide for those who are new to the subject.
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Turns out the Gordon Fee book is a free audiobook, so no feeding the Amazon juggernaut there. :)

Also, Gordon Fee has a book on Revelation. I like the path this is going.
 
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