The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[KelbyofGod]

Kelby, you are quoting just only a Part of what I am written and what is Fit to your teaching. You can do so, but this will not convince me to be right in your teachings.
We are agree, in that that we receiving the Holy Spirit and I am with you if you say every believer is getting a gift to build up the body of Christ.
But from the scripture I am not with you when you claim every believer get the gift of speaking in tongues.
Also from the scripture I am not with you when you claim that speaking in tongues is the Sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I was only quoting part of your post. My intent was only to clarify which part I was agreeing with...and show some unexpected outcomes if it is true, as we both have now said it is. I did not mean to slander your post. I know you do not preach the outcomes that I suggest.

As for Spiritual gifts given to believers: I want to point out that there are two kinds of spiritual gift... not just one... and the difference in their purpose and attributes is MAJOR. But the first spiritual gift is so obvious it is most often overlooked/excluded when people speak of spiritual gifts. And most fail to see what are the attributes of this spiritual gift compared to and contrasted with all the others. But it is spiritual, and it is a gift. Therefore it is a spiritual gift. I think we make a mistake when we exclude this gift in our use of the term "spiritual gifts", and we also make a mistake if we think that we can ignore the difference between this gift and the other type.

I do not expect you to be able to see/agree with what I am saying right now. But I post it so you and everyone can pray about it.

NOTE: Some things are only spiritually discerned. Those who think they can rely on their understanding without sincerely asking God to open it to them are not likely to actually see what is said. Others, who will pray about it may wait a considerable amount of time before God opens it to them, but God is faithful to answer. My advice is that if anyone doesn't see the importance clearly, they should not pretend to. They can say "I don't see it that way" or "I disagree" or "That seems obvious and unimportant" but shouldn't pretend to understand immediately in order to appear knowledgeable.


The two types of spiritual gift and some CONTRASTING attributes are as follows:

1. The Holy Ghost itself:

• ONE gift,
• Available to ALL
• Is required,
• Given to the benefit of the individual (primarily).

2. The additional gifts ,

• NUMEROUS gifts
• Each available only to SOME
• Not required
• Given to benefit others (primarily).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dino246]

How many of you people agree with Kelby's believe of my stand before God and how many reject it?

Respectfully, don't waste your time with votes. They are meaningless in this context, and at best you would have ammunition for a fallacy, because an appeal to popularity lends your position absolutely no logical validity.

 

[Dino246]

The two types of spiritual gift and some CONTRASTING attributes are as follows:

1. The Holy Ghost Himself:

Fixed it for you.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, I thought about doing that.

I go back and forth on which word to use. When speaking in terms of function I usually use the word it, but in all honesty that is shorting him some major attributes.

In terms of spiritual gifts, and in reference to the Holy Ghost himself as being one, it would fit well with the idea that the Holy Ghost HIMSELF would want to be allowed to speak. Usually (lol) the Holy Ghost/God/Jesus has better things to say than we do on our own. Which is kind of what speaking in tongues is all about.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Fixed it for you.

I was thinking about why it is that I use "it" sometimes... It's because the bible does too.. for example: Romans 8:16 KJV
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

I think God is used to having to describe himself in lesser words than he might use with "more understanding company" such as the heavenly host, for example.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dino246]

I was thinking about why it is that I use "it" sometimes... It's because the bible does too.. for example: Romans 8:16 KJV
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

I think God is used to having to describe himself in lesser words than he might use with "more understanding company" such as the heavenly host, for example.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The NASB has "Himself".

 

[garee]

Yeah, I thought about doing that.

I go back and forth on which word to use. When speaking in terms of function I usually use the word it, but in all honesty that is shorting him some major attributes.

In terms of spiritual gifts, and in reference to the Holy Ghost himself as being one, it would fit well with the idea that the Holy Ghost HIMSELF would want to be allowed to speak. Usually (lol) the Holy Ghost/God/Jesus has better things to say than we do on our own. Which is kind of what speaking in tongues is all about.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes spiritual faithless. like out of sight out of mind. The pagan foundation. No new tongue the gospel.

No faith that alone comes from hearing God by which men could please . But rather senseless sounds that go peep and bump in the night causing faithless people to trip and fall backward in a spirit of judgment. And yet warning after warning their mockery of prophecy, God's tongue, continues to show they love their oral tradition of men above that as it is written.

Its a warning against mockers of prophecy not a sign of approval....... make a sound fall backward. .That's a law of men earthly inspired

Falling back slain in the spirit of judgment. Rising in wonderment getting filled, falling back rising getting filled "over and over" . It is the sign given to us to help identify them and warn them walk by faith (sola scriptura) not after the oral tradition of men that mock the written tradition (prophecy) of God.

 

[CS1]

That means you believe that all who have not the gift of speaking in tongues are not empowered with the Holy Spirit.
You know that Paul teaches that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues, like not all get the gift to healing.
That means Paul knew, that all not tongue giftet believers are automatically excluded from be empowered by the Holy Spirit ?

not at all again the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit coming upon you are not the same.
three types of gifts give to the church: 1 the charismata 2. Pneumatika" 3. gifts given to men for men.

 

[breno785au]

The NASB has "Himself".

I wonder what's more accurate to the scriptures? Because there's a big difference between itself and Himself.. At least to me anyway.

Edit: in before onlyists - the KJV must be right!

 

[CS1]

I usually try to locate the moment of divergence when similarly thinking people begin to disagree. In this case it happens to start with our reading of John 20:22.

I'm just going to state the points but spare the details,for your time's sake.

John 20:22 only speaks of what JESUS did, but does not specify what the disciples did or actually received at that time.

Jesus also said the the comforter could not come until "I go away"-John 16:7 and "go unto my father"-John 16:10 and "ye see me no more"-John 16:10 which didn't happen until Acts 1 - Acts 1:9. That's why they had to wait for the promise (Acts 1:4), which Jesus also described as being baptized with the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5) and came (and still comes) with speaking in tongues.(Acts 2:4, etc)

Being baptized with the Holy Ghost is the promise made to all of us, and is stated in all four of the gospels. As surely as baptism in water is available to all of us and we are to submit ourselves to receiving it, so is the baptism of the Holy Ghost available to all of us and we are to submit ourselves to receiving it... and some of us have to tarry until we receive it.

Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26&33

I realize this is a point of disagreement between us at this time. But it is not a point of disrespect.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I did not create divergence as you are suggesting. John 20:22 has some very important thing on has to address before suggesting it is not contextual to one having the Holy Spirit when Jesus " Breathed on them and said, " receive the Holy Spirit."

1. Jesus has already been raised from the dead.
2. The Disciples are eyewitnesses of the resurrected Lord.
3. The disciples were either saved in John 20:22 or you are saying they were saved in Acts 2
4. they worshiped the risen Lord
5. they confess Jesus as Lord Roman 10:9-10

I believe they were saved before Acts 2 not after. Speaking in tongues did not save them, Jesus did.

Jesus did not say in Acts 1:8 you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you for salvation.

 

[wolfwint]

not at all again the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit coming upon you are not the same.
three types of gifts give to the church: 1 the charismata 2. Pneumatika" 3. gifts given to men for men.

This is no answer to my Post and questions.

 

[Blain]

That means you believe that all who have not the gift of speaking in tongues are not empowered with the Holy Spirit.
You know that Paul teaches that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues, like not all get the gift to healing.
That means Paul knew, that all not tongue giftet believers are automatically excluded from be empowered by the Holy Spirit ?

It is possible that the tongues is a sign of empowerment yes but the spirit works in all gifts we humans do not.
We as people in general are bron with certain things we excel at and things we don't and it is the same with the gifts as well. The phrase emowered by the spirit is I think a misunderstood term. It isn't just recieving the holy spirit because the bible speaks of recieving it but also speaks of being empowered by it so whatever gifts we do walk in will be empowered and added unto us. unless of course I am mistaken

 

[biker]

That means you believe that all who have not the gift of speaking in tongues are not empowered with the Holy Spirit.
You know that Paul teaches that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues, like not all get the gift to healing.
That means Paul knew, that all not tongue giftet believers are automatically excluded from be empowered by the Holy Spirit ?

You seriously read into things. The only time I have ever really seen you post was when the thread was about Speaking in Tongues. You have a serious mental block when it comes to the subject of Speaking in Tongues. You will take a post where someone is trying to help someone else and turn that post into an attack against yourself. You need help!

 

[wolfwint]

You seriously read into things. The only time I have ever really seen you post was when the thread was about Speaking in Tongues. You have a serious mental block when it comes to the subject of Speaking in Tongues. You will take a post where someone is trying to help someone else and turn that post into an attack against yourself. You need help!

Then Help me and give me the answer to my questions. And I not reading into things.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I did not create divergence as you are suggesting. John 20:22 has some very important thing on has to address before suggesting it is not contextual to one having the Holy Spirit when Jesus " Breathed on them and said, " receive the Holy Spirit."

1. Jesus has already been raised from the dead.
2. The Disciples are eyewitnesses of the resurrected Lord.
3. The disciples were either saved in John 20:22 or you are saying they were saved in Acts 2
4. they worshiped the risen Lord
5. they confess Jesus as Lord Roman 10:9-10

I believe they were saved before Acts 2 not after. Speaking in tongues did not save them, Jesus did.

Jesus did not say in Acts 1:8 you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you for salvation.

Points 1, 2, 4 & 5 are completely agreed. But simply put, your adding of the word "saved" adds a lot of ambiguity to #3. (Thank you, BTW for numbering your points for easy reference).

The answer to #3 depends greatly on what you're actually asking when you use the word "saved". Please don't take this as mockery but I don't know how else to show the ambiguity of the word "saved":

Are you asking me "When do I think they receive the HOly Ghost? -OR- "When do I think they entered Once-saved-always-saved?" -OR- "When do I think they said the sinners prayer?" -OR- "When do I think they were baptized because the bible says baptism doth also now save us?" -OR- "When do I think they became disciples" -OR- "When do I think they first believed? -OR- "When do I think they developed a personal relationship with Jesus?" -OR- "When do I think they completed [insert random doctrinal claim of completion]?" etc.

You'll have to describe, very clearly, what exactly you are asking.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[garee]

I was thinking about why it is that I use "it" sometimes... It's because the bible does too.. for example: Romans 8:16 KJV
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

I think God is used to having to describe himself in lesser words than he might use with "more understanding company" such as the heavenly host, for example.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The word "it" in the phrase as it is written represents the unseen faith of Christ that works in us . We defend it as it defends us it is our armor .

 

[notuptome]

I did not create divergence as you are suggesting. John 20:22 has some very important thing on has to address before suggesting it is not contextual to one having the Holy Spirit when Jesus " Breathed on them and said, " receive the Holy Spirit."

1. Jesus has already been raised from the dead.
2. The Disciples are eyewitnesses of the resurrected Lord.
3. The disciples were either saved in John 20:22 or you are saying they were saved in Acts 2
4. they worshiped the risen Lord
5. they confess Jesus as Lord Roman 10:9-10

I believe they were saved before Acts 2 not after. Speaking in tongues did not save them, Jesus did.

Jesus did not say in Acts 1:8 you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you for salvation.

I agree with what you have in this post.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

speaking in tongue is not proof one is saved. Empowered yes not not saved

In the apostolic church before those of the circumcision you are correct. Beyond that is simply adding mans ideology to what scripture has given.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

This is no answer to my Post and questions.

it is an answer one you don't understand that is not my fault,

 

[CS1]

Points 1, 2, 4 & 5 are completely agreed. But simply put, your adding of the word "saved" adds a lot of ambiguity to #3. (Thank you, BTW for numbering your points for easy reference).

The answer to #3 depends greatly on what you're actually asking when you use the word "saved". Please don't take this as mockery but I don't know how else to show the ambiguity of the word "saved":

Are you asking me "When do I think they receive the HOly Ghost? -OR- "When do I think they entered Once-saved-always-saved?" -OR- "When do I think they said the sinners prayer?" -OR- "When do I think they were baptized because the bible says baptism doth also now save us?" -OR- "When do I think they became disciples" -OR- "When do I think they first believed? -OR- "When do I think they developed a personal relationship with Jesus?" -OR- "When do I think they completed [insert random doctrinal claim of completion]?" etc.

You'll have to describe, very clearly, what exactly you are asking.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I am not adding "saved" I am identifying to what has happened according to the word of God which is revealed in the disciple's confession of Jesus who is before them resurrected.


Unless Roman chapter 10:9-10 was not true until Paul wrote it?

Not at all, I don't think it is mockery I think you very much respectful, pithy but respectful. I actually like it .

To be fair, you too are adding something that is not there in your question. The "Sinner Prayer"?

They ( disciples) believed Jesus is Lord they all confessed it.

Jesus said in John3:16

"that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Jesus also said in John 3:18

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 2:21 says And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’

"The sinner's prayer "

does not save you, Believing on the Lord Jesus does.