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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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A prophet is anyone claiming to have the Holy Spirit inside them and that spirit promotes them to speak.(that is how the BIBLE defines prophecy: speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit)?


hi ananda.
is that the biblical definition of a prophet?
more specifically, is that office or "gift" in existence today, and for what purpose?

if a prophet is anyone claiming to have The Holy Spirit in them, and that spirit promotes them to speak, what is the test of that one who claims to have The Holy Spirit in them?

If think you are able to discern between true and false doctrine and SPEAK to other people about it then you are trying to speak for God.


no, i am not claiming to speak FOR God.
i do not claim to be a prophet.

if i am able to discern true doctrine from false it will not be because i am a prophet or an apostle, or because i listen to one claiming that office today: it will because the doctrine they teach will either align with what is written or it won't.

no matter how this is spun, the question remains: are the aposotlic era gifts normative today?

how many times will the foundation be laid? how many Pentecosts are there?

the Latter Rain group tells us we have another Pentecost coming (already underway). is this true?
that idea is based on a certain reading of Joel's prophecy (as you know).

Zone you said that you can tell the difference between true and false doctrine. How is that? Through YOUR research and study?


this is the only place this argument can go: because one (zone) sees both in scripture and in practice that the apostolic era miraculous gifts ceased, and because zone studies and researches, that means zone denies the power and Commission of The Holy Spirit.

which is just silly. no one can even understand the scriptures without The Holy Spirit, nor do they have a desire to.

my position does not deny the power and ability of the Spirit to lead me into all truth: it affirms it. i do not need signs, wonders or extra-biblical revelation.

Well that is not what the Bible says, it should be through the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT who lives inside of you who will unveil scripture for those who truly seek it with a WHOLE HEART.?


again, here's the false dichotomy: because one claims to be able to, by Grace, through faith under the Power of The Spirit, along with the scriptures just diligently and prayerfully study without miraculous apostolic era gifts, that one is denying the Holy Spirit.

nothing could be further from the truth.

zone
 
A

aworldexport67

Guest
vw--In other words, since we have the bible, we do not need the Holy Spirit, nor do we need the voice of Jesus. That is the lie that I deny.

For the hundreth time you distort what people say no one has said this at all.

you just dont really read the posts you scan over them, then its onto your same old mischaraturization and misrepresentations of what people say

You didnt even listen to what EG said..It is the word of God..you didnt even acknowledge the point he made you just immediatley rush into your same old shpeel about folks are placing scripture above God and denying the Holy Spirit..that is a lie..no one has at anytime done that in this thread.

you really take the cake and the prize cause i have never come accross a professing believer who has such disdain such a problem with the scriptures..Just because you misunderstood scriptures and used them to justify your sins doesnt mean everyone else is following your mistakes..you have thrown the baby out with the bath water..you dont even see the diservice to the Spirit of God by telling folks to abandon applying scripture truths to their lives..just boggles the mind..i have never met anyone like you and i pray the Lord keeps young believers away from you..

You do ERR not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God..Just because you used scriptures falsley doesnt mean that the problem is with the scriptures the problem was your Spiritual walk..instead of taking scriptures to heart you now abandon them in order to follow whatever pops into your head and call it from God..Sorry God would never ever tell people to forgo the scriptures like you do..

you are a rudderless ship floundering in the seas still..you havent grown since your early days you went from one error to another and obviously have lost your way.

The fault is yours alone not the scriptures...
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Your reaction shows how you trust scripture over God. God does not need defended, neither does the bible. Now the faith, that is something else again. You see, when people trust the written word, the tendency is the leave off the relationship part of our salvation. That you see my words as detrimental to the bible tells me that you also are in this place. I don't know how many tomes I have written that I believe that the bible is the inspired and written word of God. I believe the bible, absolutely. How you get from this to believing that I hate the bible or that I don't love the written word, or even that I don't read the bible shows that your religion has blinded you to seeing what is plainly written before you.

But you can believe what you want to about me. That is not my concern. What you believe about God is a different matter. Until you begin to see scripture in the proper light, you will not be able to have a growing and deepening relationship with God. And that is what I write against.

In Christ
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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This is where I have such a problem with your belief. If the word of God are HIS WORDS. then they are the same as him being here in person telling you everything written in his word. Thus it is equal with him.

If I was a leader. I could do two things if I wanted to tell you something. I could tell yoiu in person. Or write you a letter. Both hold the same authority as being from me, They are equal.

The other thing I have a problem with is you hold the Bible lower than God speaking to you directly in person through the Spirit. Yet this would be no different than him writing down the words to you. Which he did in his word.
Actually, that belief is false. When Israle had a temple in Jerusalem, God's glory resided there, for a time. But when things got so bad that God could not stay with them any more, He took His glory away from the temple. Now all this time, God's word was in the temple, and even more so was the ark and the rod of Arron that budded and the tablets with the covenant. Now while God is every where, that does not make His presence everywhere, and to say that He is with or in or around someone just because they have a bible ISA repulsive belief.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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The written word is a compilation of what the Spirit spoke through inspiration to men that either wrote it down or had it written down.

VW and some others want us to think that the written word does not have the validity of what the Spirit might speak to the believer as the voice of God. He wants us to listen to that still small voice, which is good and right, but he discredits the written word in doing so, when the written word was spoken in the same manner with authority to those men that wrote it down. Shouldn't we believe what they have written as coming from the mouth of God just as much as the that still small voice from God? We should esteem the written word even greater because it has been tried by fire and preserved (2Sam 22:31, Ps 12:6,7, 18:30) and stood the test of time against every single thing that has come against it.

God is not inspiring any believer in the church today, to add to the scriptures that we have been given that has been tried. That is one of the reasons that the canon was so important. For almost 1,700 yrs the word had been tried and over the last 300+ yrs has been tried as a completed canon. The canon is a tried canon and not just a random selection of manuscripts. It can be trusted as being trustworthy and coming right from the mouth of the living God spoken, written and revealed to the heart of man to believe.
 
A

aworldexport67

Guest
Your reaction shows how you trust scripture over God.

How do you come up with this stuff?? it makes no sense whatsoevr..how can a person trust the scriptures which are Gods word more than God who spoke them? what a crazy argument to try and make.. You have made plain your feelings towards the scriptures and how you abandoned them to "follow after the Spirit"..unreal...if i wanted to spend a few hours i could post the dozens and dozens of times you have tried to state the case for ignoring and abandoning the scriptures for some sort of feelings base conversation you have in your head with what you percieve is the Holy Spirit..The Holy Spirit confirms the scriptures the Holy Spirit doesnt exhort folks to ignore them..like you have done so many times i lost count.. my issue is with your teachings not with you personally i dont know you personaly..your teaching do nothing but cause confusion and again i pray that no young believers ever come into contact with them.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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Okay, one more time, and maybe you guys, who are really being obtuse about this, might get it.

The bible is true. Okay? God will not disagree with the bible. Okay?

The bible is not God. Okay? The bible is not the voice of God. Now some of you will not go this far, but that is okay for the sake of the point I am making.

Here it is..................we can read the bible, study the bible, trust the bible and what it says, and never have a relationship with God. Okay? This is a disaster!!!!!! It is worse than a disaster, it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, who, as God's anointing Who lives in us teaches us one thing about all else. Can you guess? No? To abide in Jesus. First and foremost, to abide, to live in Jesus Christ. Okay?

Now, living in Jesus is not living in the bible. You think so? Guess again. And you cannot live in Jesus without having a personal relationship with Him, a two way, open channels of communication, with Him. And if you live in Jesus long enough, you will meet the Father, because Jesus wants us to know Him, because as we come to know Him, we grow into Jesus more and more. Something about beholding His glory and being changed into that glory, from glory to glory.

Now, if this upsets you guys, fine. No problem. Forget it.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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Your reaction shows how you trust scripture over God.

How do you come up with this stuff?? it makes no sense whatsoevr..how can a person trust the scriptures which are Gods word more than God who spoke them? what a crazy argument to try and make.. You have made plain your feelings towards the scriptures and how you abandoned them to "follow after the Spirit"..unreal...if i wanted to spend a few hours i could post the dozens and dozens of times you have tried to state the case for ignoring and abandoning the scriptures for some sort of feelings base conversation you have in your head with what you percieve is the Holy Spirit..The Holy Spirit confirms the scriptures the Holy Spirit doesnt exhort folks to ignore them..like you have done so many times i lost count.. my issue is with your teachings not with you personally i dont know you personaly..your teaching do nothing but cause confusion and again i pray that no young believers ever come into contact with them.
Actually, I know way too many believers who have the same doctrines you have, and they do not know God. That is a disaster. They do not even know that God has planted His seed in them, that they are His children. But they believe the bible, with all their hearts, and they are in church, every time they open the doors. And they are professing and believing christians. How sad.

I am not confused. Not any more. The Holy Spirit does not confirm scripture, He opens them to us. How can you understand the things of God? Not without the Holy Spirit. And that is the difference. I trust the scriptures that the Holy Spirit has revealed the meaning of to me, the ones that He has opened my mind and heart to see and understand. The others, that He has not made clear to me, I do not know them. Even the simplest scripture, such as "God is love," begs the Holy Spirit's revelation to understand.

I have taught many others these things, and they understand, and even more important, they have a living and growing relationship with God through Jesus Christ. And guess what, I did not teach them, the Spirit did.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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[/color]

hi ananda.
is that the biblical definition of a prophet?
more specifically, is that office or "gift" in existence today, and for what purpose?

if a prophet is anyone claiming to have The Holy Spirit in them, and that spirit promotes them to speak, what is the test of that one who claims to have The Holy Spirit in them?

[/color]

no, i am not claiming to speak FOR God.
i do not claim to be a prophet.

if i am able to discern true doctrine from false it will not be because i am a prophet or an apostle, or because i listen to one claiming that office today: it will because the doctrine they teach will either align with what is written or it won't.

no matter how this is spun, the question remains: are the aposotlic era gifts normative today?

how many times will the foundation be laid? how many Pentecosts are there?

the Latter Rain group tells us we have another Pentecost coming (already underway). is this true?
that idea is based on a certain reading of Joel's prophecy (as you know).

[/color]

this is the only place this argument can go: because one (zone) sees both in scripture and in practice that the apostolic era miraculous gifts ceased, and because zone studies and researches, that means zone denies the power and Commission of The Holy Spirit.

which is just silly. no one can even understand the scriptures without The Holy Spirit, nor do they have a desire to.

my position does not deny the power and ability of the Spirit to lead me into all truth: it affirms it. i do not need signs, wonders or extra-biblical revelation.

[/color]

again, here's the false dichotomy: because one claims to be able to, by Grace, through faith under the Power of The Spirit, along with the scriptures just diligently and prayerfully study without miraculous apostolic era gifts, that one is denying the Holy Spirit.

nothing could be further from the truth.

zone
Testing the spirit; what does scripture say?

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."


Pretty simple, seems to me.
 
A

aworldexport67

Guest
who stated that a relationship with the Lord is unnessassary who?? Who has said that there is no working of the Holy Spirit in a person? of course head knowledge doesnt save..what believer here has said that?
nobody has minimalized the Holy Spirit but you have minimalized the scriptures..how many times have you called it "just a book" that there is no truth to be gained in it"..at least a dozen.. to say a person who values the scriptures is somehow taking away from the Holy Spirit is just flat out wrong.nobody has said that.. folks have exhorted others to read and allow the Holy Spirit to teach..nobody has taken the Holy Spirit out of the picture..but you certainly try to take the scriptures out.All bornagain saved believers have the Holy Spirit in them..you dont have to whammie up the Holy Spirit..He lives in the believer..we are talking about believers not about secular bible scholars who are not bornagain.. what bornagain believer finds no sign of God in scripture..what believer denies the power and office of the Holy Spirit..Just because you misapplied scriptures didnt take them to heart and used them to justify your sin doesnt mean every other believer has done this.. just becaue believers value the scriptures as the Word of God in no way takes away from their belief in a relationship and Spirit walk with God..what an argument to make..i dont understand your ministry at all..ive never come accross a professed believer who councils people to hang up their bibles and just listen to the voices in your head..how can you tell the false from the true if not to compare with the scriptures..oh thats right you just know because the voice tells you so..seems to me that you dont like the authority of scripture..you dont want your beliefs tested in their light..cause if you did you wouldnt spend so much time putting the scriptures down..or folks who value the scriptures...
 
Jun 24, 2010
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Okay, one more time, and maybe you guys, who are really being obtuse about this, might get it.

The bible is true. Okay? God will not disagree with the bible. Okay? IT IS NOT OKAY, BECAUSE IT IS GOD'S LOGOS AND RHEMA THAT MAN IS TO LIVE BY EVERY WORD!

The bible is not God. Okay? The bible is not the voice of God. OH YES IT IS, IT IS JUST AS MUCH THE VOICE OF GOD AS ANYTHING YOU HAVE HEARD FROM GOD! Now some of you will not go this far, but that is okay for the sake of the point I am making.

Here it is..................we can read the bible, study the bible, trust the bible and what it says, and never have a relationship with God. Okay? This is a disaster!!!!!! ONLY IF THE ONE THAT READS AND STUDIES IT DOES NOT BELIEVE WHAT IT TEACHES, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE SPIRIT BRINGS CONVICTION TO THE HEART! It is worse than a disaster, it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, IT IS NOT BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE SPIRIT, BUT IT IS UNBELIEF who, as God's anointing Who lives in us teaches us one thing about all else. Can you guess? No? To abide in Jesus. First and foremost, to abide, to live in Jesus Christ. Okay?

Now, living in Jesus is not living in the bible. LIVING IN CHRIST IS TO ABIDE IN HIS WORD THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN You think so? Guess again. And you cannot live in Jesus without having a personal relationship with Him, AND THAT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP COMES THROUGH THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT BY FAITH a two way, open channels of communication, with Him. And if you live in Jesus long enough, you will meet the Father, because Jesus wants us to know Him, because as we come to know Him, we grow into Jesus more and more. Something about beholding His glory and being changed into that glory, from glory to glory. WHEN WE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON WE ARE IN FELLOWSHIP WITH THE FATHER BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT BE SEPERATED IN ANY WAY

Now, if this upsets you guys, fine. No problem. Forget it.
WE ARE NOT UPSET BUT DISMAYED WITH HOW YOU BELIEVE!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Okay, one more time, and maybe you guys, who are really being obtuse about this, might get it.

The bible is true. Okay? God will not disagree with the bible. Okay?

The bible is not God. Okay? The bible is not the voice of God. Now some of you will not go this far, but that is okay for the sake of the point I am making.

Here it is..................we can read the bible, study the bible, trust the bible and what it says, and never have a relationship with God. Okay? This is a disaster!!!!!! It is worse than a disaster, it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, who, as God's anointing Who lives in us teaches us one thing about all else. Can you guess? No? To abide in Jesus. First and foremost, to abide, to live in Jesus Christ. Okay?

Now, living in Jesus is not living in the bible. You think so? Guess again. And you cannot live in Jesus without having a personal relationship with Him, a two way, open channels of communication, with Him. And if you live in Jesus long enough, you will meet the Father, because Jesus wants us to know Him, because as we come to know Him, we grow into Jesus more and more. Something about beholding His glory and being changed into that glory, from glory to glory.

Now, if this upsets you guys, fine. No problem. Forget it.
exactly when were you informed by The Lord you were a prophet?

exactly what commission did He give you, how did He do it, what did you do when He did it?

where and when did you discover the five-fold ministry?

who taught it to you?

are you now in contact with those who taught you this?

i would like to know their names and organizations so i may check your credentials please.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Testing the spirit; what does scripture say?

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."


Pretty simple, seems to me.
not so fast.

it's time for some background check VW.

i need more information than i've seen yet from you. if you are a prophet ordained by God Almighty, and you have a specific message for the church today, it's time to put this matter to rest one way or the other.

please give us a detailed testimony with places name dates and contacts.

all messages the Lord has given you to date.

if you are the real deal, we need to know what He has said, and you should have it all written down.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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not so fast.

it's time for some background check VW.

i need more information than i've seen yet from you. if you are a prophet ordained by God Almighty, and you have a specific message for the church today, it's time to put this matter to rest one way or the other.

please give us a detailed testimony with places name dates and contacts.

all messages the Lord has given you to date.

if you are the real deal, we need to know what He has said, and you should have it all written down.
I don't answer to you any more than you answer to me.

I have posted several of His words here. Doesn't matter, either God is in you and you can hear Him, or not. I think you know that I confess Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and I do so not based upon what I read, but by His Spirit.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I don't answer to you any more than you answer to me.

I have posted several of His words here. Doesn't matter, either God is in you and you can hear Him, or not. I think you know that I confess Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and I do so not based upon what I read, but by His Spirit.
you answer to the church.

please post ALL prophecies and words the Lord has given you.

we need to see it all. you've made serious claims and there are innumerable posts on this stuff: let's get it straightened out.

i have hundreds and hundreds of files on my computers, three bibles filled with notes, cases and boxes filled with books and i know exactly where everything is. i know my testimony from the moment i believed.

if i had received extra-biblical revelations from The Lord, and words directly FROM HIM TO me FOR the church, i would have them either immediately again upon my lips, or at my side.

please document VW.

also: what organization/co-prophets, apostles are/were you associated with?
names and organizations please.
 
A

aworldexport67

Guest
IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.

V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture. And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.

VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.

VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.

VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.

IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.

Are any of these articles untrue or false? do you agree or disagree or maybe parts you do or dont.... explain why...

I do not find anything wrong there...
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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you answer to the church.

please post ALL prophecies and words the Lord has given you.

we need to see it all. you've made serious claims and there are innumerable posts on this stuff: let's get it straightened out.

i have hundreds and hundreds of files on my computers, three bibles filled with notes, cases and boxes filled with books and i know exactly where everything is. i know my testimony from the moment i believed.

if i had received extra-biblical revelations from The Lord, and words directly FROM HIM TO me FOR the church, i would have them either immediately again upon my lips, or at my side.

please document VW.

also: what organization/co-prophets, apostles are/were you associated with?
names and organizations please.
I do not answer to the church but rather I serve her.

I have over 6 million words written in long hand. I aint posting all of that for you. I have not kept records, because I have never considered the words I receive as scripture.

Do you have the Spirit or not? That is all you need to know if what I write is from God. If not, if the spirit in you says not, then ignore what I write, as I tend to ignore most of what you post.

Good night,
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.

V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture. And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.

VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.

VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.

VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.

IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.

Are any of these articles untrue or false? do you agree or disagree or maybe parts you do or dont.... explain why...

I do not find anything wrong there...
Except that it is wrong. Scripture itself says that the natural man does not understand the thoughts of God. What you advocate here is the reasoned interpretation of scripture. I submit that this will lead into error. You want scripture to back that up?

1st Cor 2:11-15
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Here is the trouble with this view of scripture. If we are the ones who are deciding what scripture says, which must be the case, because it is the infallible word of God, and has all knowledge and everything else, and all we must do is read and interpret it; then we can, with our puny little minds, decide what parts are important and which are not. Like the part about His sheep hearing His voice. He did not really mean that we are to hear His voice. But we can condemn another believer on the basis of one little part of a two sentence paragraph, contained in the last third of the last sentence, while ignoring the most important part of the paragraph, about entering into the holy place with God.

But just take one passage, the words of Jesus, and see if you can interpret them. "I am the resurrection and the life; everyone who believes in Me shall live, even if they die; and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." Do you know what this means? Can you interpret this? What if you are wrong, and it means something entirely different? I mean, these are diametrically opposed statements. Live if you die, or live and never die?

This doctrine about the bible has been a part of the church for a while now. The bible is not the fault, it is the doctrine. That is what I am speaking against.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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I do not answer to the church but rather I serve her.

I have over 6 million words written in long hand. I aint posting all of that for you. I have not kept records, because I have never considered the words I receive as scripture.

Do you have the Spirit or not? That is all you need to know if what I write is from God. If not, if the spirit in you says not, then ignore what I write, as I tend to ignore most of what you post.

Good night,
i won't be ignoring what you write VW.
it doesn't work that way.
good night.