Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Jackson123]

Done some research for you.
Have a look at posts #165, #173, #176 in the thread "Catholics and Other Religions".
I think they answer your questions.

“When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Rev 5:8)

“Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.” (Rev 8:3)

When I was young, I work as courier, I deliver mail from office to another office, but I don't know what is in the mail. I don't know if the elder or angel know what is in the golden bowl, and if they do, is that mean Mary know?

The verse don't say Mary know and able to hear every catholic that pray to her.

 

[Dan_473]

Probably most people are baptised as babies or infants so it's not their choice but their parents.
But if an adult wants to become a Catholic then they will enquire with a particular rite/church, attend some sort of course, attend Mass at that church and then be baptised in that church.

I think I understand what you're saying.

the baptisms performance by the different rites are all the same baptism.
they probably have different words and actions, but the same spiritual reality is taking place.
do we agree there?

and the people that I spoke of earlier who had been baptized in an Episcopal setting, if at a later time they say to a Catholic priest that they want to take the steps so that they can participate fully in all the sacraments of the Catholic church, they will not be baptized again.

I think it is official Catholic Church teaching that a valid baptism results in the person being a member of the mystical body of Christ.
do we agree there?

and I now understand that from the Catholic perspective, there is the visible church and (I assume, then) the invisible church.
and the visible church is those Christians who submit to the leadership of the pope.

but I don't think it stretches the analogy of the body too much to say that there are no Superior or inferior members of the body.
of course, some members may be diseased or wounded.
and I can see that from the Catholic perspective, not submitting to the pope is a serious illness.
but it wouldn't make the person no longer a member of the Mystical body.

are we in agreement there?

 

[Dan_473]

Your respon tell me that you try what ever you can to defend catholic

then I believe you misunderstand me.

so, did you want to answer the following question that I had asked?
or did you want to be done with the subject of worshiping God and at the same time not following his commandments or having full knowledge of him?

I'll include the relevant quote from you this time

I only believe true or false.

good!

is the statement below true or false?
32They worshiped the Lord, but they also appointed all sorts of their own people to officiate for them as priests in the shrines at the high places
https://biblehub.com/niv/2_kings/17.htm

 

[Dan_473]

the baptisms performance

Lol
Should be
The baptisms performed...

 

[Jackson123]

then I believe you misunderstand me.

so, did you want to answer the following question that I had asked?
or did you want to be done with the subject of worshiping God and at the same time not following his commandments or having full knowledge of him?

I'll include the relevant quote from you this time

I did answer

 

[EleventhHour]

Thank you.

The prayer is only asking Mary to help us by her intercession, just as she did at Cana on behalf of the couple who had run out of wine. And we have confidence that Jesus will listen to her prayer just as he did at Cana.



The Muslims have a high regard for Mary.

Mary does not hear our prayers.

She has no intercessory power in Heaven.

 

[Bede]

I think I understand what you're saying.

the baptisms performance by the different rites are all the same baptism.
they probably have different words and actions, but the same spiritual reality is taking place.
do we agree there?

and the people that I spoke of earlier who had been baptized in an Episcopal setting, if at a later time they say to a Catholic priest that they want to take the steps so that they can participate fully in all the sacraments of the Catholic church, they will not be baptized again.

I think it is official Catholic Church teaching that a valid baptism results in the person being a member of the mystical body of Christ.
do we agree there?

and I now understand that from the Catholic perspective, there is the visible church and (I assume, then) the invisible church.
and the visible church is those Christians who submit to the leadership of the pope.

but I don't think it stretches the analogy of the body too much to say that there are no Superior or inferior members of the body.
of course, some members may be diseased or wounded.
and I can see that from the Catholic perspective, not submitting to the pope is a serious illness.
but it wouldn't make the person no longer a member of the Mystical body.

are we in agreement there?

Yes I think that is right.

At some time in the past I think all would have had a "conditional" baptism in case the original was not valid. But now the Catholic Church accepts the baptism of some other denomination as valid though I don't know which in particular.

Regarding your earlier point about which rite to be baptised into, I think it's not really a case of selecting one. In a particular locality there would generally only be one. For example in England I think there would normally only be the Latin/Roman rite.

 

[Bede]

Mary does not hear our prayers.

She has no intercessory power in Heaven.

Prove it.

 

[Bede]

“When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Rev 5:8)

“Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.” (Rev 8:3)

When I was young, I work as courier, I deliver mail from office to another office, but I don't know what is in the mail. I don't know if the elder or angel know what is in the golden bowl, and if they do, is that mean Mary know?

The verse don't say Mary know and able to hear every catholic that pray to her.

I don't think comparing heaven to a delivery company is valid.

 

[Magenta]

Prove it.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5

 

[Jackson123]

I don't think comparing heaven to a delivery company is valid.

Than what verse say Mary know what is in the golden bowl

 

[Bede]

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5

Yes I agree with that.
So what?

 

[Bede]

Than what verse say Mary know what is in the golden bowl

How did the prayers get in the golden bowl?

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes I agree with that.
So what?

You do not like proof do you.

You made the assertion and it is not in scripture....the onus is on you.

Nowhere in
scripture does it state Mary now dead hears prayers...nowhere.

 

[Benadam]

Does it say that if it's not in Scriptures it's not true?

 

[Bede]

You do not like proof do you.

You made the assertion and it is not in scripture....the onus is on you.

Nowhere in
scripture does it state Mary now dead hears prayers...nowhere.

How does your post relate to mine?
Or was it just a random comment?

 

[Reformyourself]

Thank you.

The prayer is only asking Mary to help us by her intercession, just as she did at Cana on behalf of the couple who had run out of wine. And we have confidence that Jesus will listen to her prayer just as he did at Cana.



The Muslims have a high regard for Mary.

What! Jesus said ‘woman what is your concern to me’ yes he changed the water (only the servants & Mary knew)
She cannot intercede for humanity, she’s buried, until the resurrection! ‘We have an advocate with The Father, Jesus Christ The righteous’
please please stop asking Mary to pray for you st bede...you’ll be lost🙏

 

[Dan_473]

I did answer

Great! Which post?

 

[Bede]

What! Jesus said ‘woman what is your concern to me’ yes he changed the water (only the servants & Mary knew)
She cannot intercede for humanity, she’s buried, until the resurrection! ‘We have an advocate with The Father, Jesus Christ The righteous’
please please stop asking Mary to pray for you st bede...you’ll be lost🙏

Mary is in heaven.

 

[Dan_473]

imo, in any discussion about particular Bible verses, there is an underlying and usually unstated question:

is the Bible best understood by individual people? (the general Protestant position)

or is the Bible best understood by the church as a whole? (the general Catholic and Eastern Orthodox position)