Do all children get raptured?

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Jun 11, 2020
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#41
Your biggest problem is believing in a "rapture" that is found no where in the Bible. People quote 1 Thess. 4:17 all the time, but the verb harpazo is not translated as the noun "rapture." Feel free, anyone to challenge me and then we can take a good look at what the Greek actually says.

This pre-trib stuff is all nonsense. Jesus has said he would return ONCE - its called the Second Coming for a reason. Because Jesus comes only twice, not an invisible time to so-called "rapture" the church.

Further, this whole rapture scenario then grabs verses out of context, in Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, and twists them and literally interprets them. I am reading Revelation in Koine Greek right now, and it sure does not say what I have read these confused dispies say.

Many people here have said you need to trust God. I know that is hard when you have been scared into believing a false doctrine like the rapture. Look up Amill and post mill. Study all the viewpoints. Don't listen to some preacher with an agenda on youtube like John Hagee ranting and raving, predicting the end over and over based on some "sign" that never happens. And beware of any preacher teaching this. There are actually 4 end time views (including historical premill, which is a lot different than Dispensationalism.) Study them and see which makes more sense.

Is Jesus ruling with us on the earth or some imaginary trip to a heaven ABOVE us? (heaven could be in a parallel universe, for all we know! Not saying it is, but the Bible never says where heaven was located.)

And no, I am not a JW! I believe in the Trinity and the deity of Christ. But, I have studied the Bible for 40 years, including formally. I know a lot of people who have studied and know Greek and Hebrew, most of us have concluding the rapture and going to heaven is folk theology. The better approach is the Amillennial position, which most of my Baptists friends and pastors believe. I've read the Bible over 50 times, including the NT in Koine Greek and many books in the OT in Hebrew. The message of the Bible is one of hope - of Jesus redeeming all his people, no Plan B for the Jews. Of Jesus Second Coming and no millennium. So if the message is one of hope, why are you living in fear?

Good hermeneutics requires that a topic as important as eschatology or end times is found in more than one place in the Bible. The Millennium is only mentioned in one chapter in the Bible - Rev. 20. That is simply not enough to develop an important doctrine. And 6 times is still in the same place is still not a go.

Biblical Hebrew does not have words for million, billion or infinity. A thousand just means a very large number. No 1000 year reign. So, fear not, God is sovereign and in control. He will not be unjust towards your children or any children.
Your credentials are impressive. But you have ignored plain simple grammar. And you have ASSUMED that if our Lord were to receive His Church into the clouds, He must come another time. You of all people should also know that "harpazo" DOES mean "to be snatched away", and that this is confirmed by 2 Thessalonians 2:1, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him." .Further, you have used the word "coming" when you know, as a student of Greek, the word is "parousia" - which means "PRESENCE". But let me build more proofs.

The Second Coming of the Lord Jesus is one from "above the highest heaven" to earth - the Mount of Olives to be exact (Zech.14:4; Act.1:11-12). On the way he stops in a lower heaven where Elders, Living Creatures and angels are, to be crowned (Rev.4). Then He must pass through the stratosphere (where there are no clouds) and into the troposphere where there are clouds. Here He again pauses to receive His Church and judge them at the "Bema", not the "Thronos". Then He continues His journey by breaking forth from the clouds to be "revealed" (apokalypsis) to men (Matt.24:30). There are NO TWO JOURNEYS IN THIS. It is ONE journey with some "PAROUSIA" - His "presence". (i) His presence in the highest heaven, followed by (ii) His presence in a lower heaven, followed by (iii) His presence in the clouds, followed by (iv) His presence on earth.

But there is more, but only if you actually believe scripture. It is said by scripture that the coming Great Tribulation will encompass the the WHOLE EARTH. That is, there is no corner, cave or den that does not have the full effects of the natural and supernatural torment to the earth and those who dwell on it. But there is One Man Who is not dwelling on earth at this time. It is Jesus. Matthew 24:29-30 says that Jesus comes "AFTER" the Tribulation of those days. Now, in Luke 21, starting with verse 25 when the "times of the Gentiles are fulfilled", this time of Tribulation is again mentioned in context of the coming of the Son of man. Luke 21:35-36 reads;

35 "For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."


Verse 35 confirms that it encompasses the "WHOLE EARTH" and affects "ALL" that dwell on it. Verse 36 then shows a place of escape to those "WORTHY". It is to "STAND BEFORE the Son of man. Since He is not on earth at the time, "standing beofre the Son of man" leaves no other option than those "WORTHY" are somewhere else THAN EARTH. And it not be UNDER the earth because our Lord is finished with under the earth by resurrection day.

But there is more if you believe the Bible. In Revelation 3:10 we read; "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Again we have "trial upon ALL the earth" for them that dwell upon it. And the promise to those worthy is that they will not only be kept from the trial, but kept from the HOUR of this universal trial. Not only are they somewhere else than the earth, but they will be missing for the TIME it takes to torment men and beasts.

I suggest that you rethink the matter. Hagee is not a reference point. On this we can agree. But scripture in all its simplicity and logic is. I also suggest that the contents of Revelation Chapter 20 cannot be symbolic as you would have for the thousand years - for (i) you have no reason to make this one word in a whole Chapter symbolic, and (ii) if you make one thing symbolic within a context you must make all symbolic. This would cause absurdities. Added to this, this time is alluded to in Hebrews 3 and 4 and is called God's future "REST" and is defined by (i) those of Israel who did not enter the Good Land, and (ii) by those cast out of the Good Land. The time from Joshua crossing Jordan to the deportation of the Jews to Babylon was just short of 1,000 years. This, in conjunction with the SIX-TIMES mention of a specific number, might not be conclusive in itself. But you have no reason for dismissing it. And if you take the grammatical implications that make it "A" thousand years THREE-TIMES, and by implication "THE" thousand years THREE-TIMES, the six-time mention is to be taken seriously. Add the Heptadic structure of scripture to it and you have God's real Sabbath in the 7th one thousand year day since Adam. Each in itself not conclusive, but your claim of a "once mention" falls away.

The last, and simplest proof is the plain language of 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17. It simply says that the dead will rise, join the living, and TOGETHER be "caught away" to the air and the clouds. There is no ambiguity. It is plain and simple language.

Lastly, not a proof, but a point of discussion for a student of your caliber, what think ye of Philippians 3:14? "I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." You and I both know that the Greek does not describe a "high calling" as the King James renders. It describes the direction of the calling. This was corrected in the New King James - as I used above. And Paul describes it as a PRIZE - very much in harmony with Luke 21:36 which calls them "WORTHY", and Revelation 3:10 which indicates a REWARD "because" the Overcomers had done something.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#42
You'll have to show scripture for this.
You gave the scripture earlier (1 Cor 7:14). I do not know if there are two or not.

It's a nice thought but having your sin and sins put away and rebirth to be a son of God, and to have eternal life is based on faith into, and confession of the mouth.
Young children do not have the ability to do this. You apparently believe every child who does not have the ability to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead is headed for hell.

As you noted earlier, 1 Cor 7:14 means something.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#43
Your biggest problem is believing in a "rapture" that is found no where in the Bible. People quote 1 Thess. 4:17 all the time, but the verb harpazo is not translated as the noun "rapture." Feel free, anyone to challenge me and then we can take a good look at what the Greek actually says.

This pre-trib stuff is all nonsense. Jesus has said he would return ONCE - its called the Second Coming for a reason. Because Jesus comes only twice, not an invisible time to so-called "rapture" the church.

Further, this whole rapture scenario then grabs verses out of context, in Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, and twists them and literally interprets them. I am reading Revelation in Koine Greek right now, and it sure does not say what I have read these confused dispies say.

Many people here have said you need to trust God. I know that is hard when you have been scared into believing a false doctrine like the rapture. Look up Amill and post mill. Study all the viewpoints. Don't listen to some preacher with an agenda on youtube like John Hagee ranting and raving, predicting the end over and over based on some "sign" that never happens. And beware of any preacher teaching this. There are actually 4 end time views (including historical premill, which is a lot different than Dispensationalism.) Study them and see which makes more sense.

Is Jesus ruling with us on the earth or some imaginary trip to a heaven ABOVE us? (heaven could be in a parallel universe, for all we know! Not saying it is, but the Bible never says where heaven was located.)

And no, I am not a JW! I believe in the Trinity and the deity of Christ. But, I have studied the Bible for 40 years, including formally. I know a lot of people who have studied and know Greek and Hebrew, most of us have concluding the rapture and going to heaven is folk theology. The better approach is the Amillennial position, which most of my Baptists friends and pastors believe. I've read the Bible over 50 times, including the NT in Koine Greek and many books in the OT in Hebrew. The message of the Bible is one of hope - of Jesus redeeming all his people, no Plan B for the Jews. Of Jesus Second Coming and no millennium. So if the message is one of hope, why are you living in fear?

Good hermeneutics requires that a topic as important as eschatology or end times is found in more than one place in the Bible. The Millennium is only mentioned in one chapter in the Bible - Rev. 20. That is simply not enough to develop an important doctrine. And 6 times is still in the same place is still not a go.

Biblical Hebrew does not have words for million, billion or infinity. A thousand just means a very large number. No 1000 year reign. So, fear not, God is sovereign and in control. He will not be unjust towards your children or any children.
Some of us have studied the Bible for as long or longer than you have and are convinced that there will indeed be a rapture.

Is the rapture now the topic of this thread? :)
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#44
You gave the scripture earlier (1 Cor 7:14). I do not know if there are two or not.


Young children do not have the ability to do this. You apparently believe every child who does not have the ability to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead is headed for hell.

As you noted earlier, 1 Cor 7:14 means something.
The believing partner in a household "sanctifies" and "makes separate" (the meaning of "holy") those of the household. This is a POSITION on earth before God. Rebirth, receiving eternal and divine life are DISPOSITIONAL. They are intrinsic attributes of a believer. They can only be had by faith and confession.

But even better is your dilemma about the death and destination of children. Christianity at large has this problem. Their Bible is only one Chapter long. In this one Chapter they teach that if you believe in Jesus you go to heaven when you die, and if you don't believe in Jesus you go to hell. But does the Bible really say this?

I propose that the Bible records God making a promise to Eve that her seed would eventually crush the serpents head - the serpent that has the power over death (Heb.2:14). So many scriptures, but especially 1st Corinthians 15, say that ALL MEN will be raised from the dead. So the future of these children is to be ALIVE. Till then, they reside in Hades where David is 50 days after Christ's resurrection (Act.2:29-34). And my Bible says in Isaiah 66:24 that only those who "transgressed" against God will go to the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20 confirms this in that men only go to the Lake of Fire because of their WORKS (v.11-15). Since a fetus, an infant or a child does not transgress against God, how could they go to the Lake of Fire.

I also propose that God made a Promise to Abraham. It was that IN him (the seed that was in his loins) God would "bless all the families of the earth" (Gen.12:3). Now, this blessing is that humankind can be resurrected and live under a benign and equitable government on a fertile and pleasant earth. And is this not partially achievd during the Millennium, and fully achieved on the New Earth in the last Chapters of the Bible? Revelation 20 records death swallowed up in victory with the evil elements of mankind in a Lake of Fire. Revelation 21 introduces a symbolic City that fulfills all of God's desires with men. And Revelation 22 records that Christ and His elect will rule "forever" on a "renewed" earth.

There is no problem with the millions of children who have either been slaughtered or died of natural causes. They will be resurrected and enjoy life on a New Earth under a divine government for ever.

What do you think brother/sister?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#45
Some of us have studied the Bible for as long or longer than you have and are convinced that there will indeed be a rapture.

Is the rapture now the topic of this thread? :)
It had to happen sooner or later. Some cannot but derail a thread for a pet belief. You are right though.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
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#46
Lastly, not a proof, but a point of discussion for a student of your caliber, what think ye of Philippians 3:14? "I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." You and I both know that the Greek does not describe a "high calling" as the King James renders. It describes the direction of the calling. This was corrected in the New King James - as I used above. And Paul describes it as a PRIZE - very much in harmony with Luke 21:36 which calls them "WORTHY", and Revelation 3:10 which indicates a REWARD "because" the Overcomers had done something.
I'm not "a student of her [/Angela's] caliber," but I just thought perhaps you might be interested in another "pre-tribber's viewpoint" on these few passages you've pointed out... so here's my view on those:

--Phil 3:14 "upward call" refers to "in the here and now" ["mind" being the context--2:2, 3:16]

--Luke 21:36 not being a "rapture" verse, but instruction for those found IN the trib yrs, to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" each and every thing coming to pass (on the earth, at that time), and to stand before (in a judicial sense) the Son of man (His "Second Coming TO THE EARTH" designation)

--Rev3:10... context being addressed to "the churchES" (not merely to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), so in "the churchES" there exists both genuine believers (the "overcomers" / SAVED persons) AND those who come in His name, but who are not vitally connect with Christ (i.e. they are NOT SAVED)... Whereas "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is made up of ONLY believers... and Paul says "WE ALL" shall be "changed" (I blv that occurs at the time of "our Rapture")



[IOW, I do not believe that the "Partial-Rapture Theory" is biblical, based on these explanations, brief though it is, in this post = ) ]
 

acts5_29

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
327
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#47
Hardly. Infants and young children are all covered by the finished work of Christ, who said "for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven".
Absolutely it is. So...children of unsaved parents are all just going to mysteriously vanish, and the world is just going to go on, unbelieving, as if nothing ever happened? All those children were never given a free will and are somehow immune to the whole point of even living on earth?

Or, if you go the other way: children are all left behind...because their Christian parents are to be SPARED the Tribulation??? They were just made to all abandon their children. I'm sorry...what were they "spared" from, again?

Meanwhile, Post-trib never promised a rose garden. Children are orphaned, kids die of starvation, babies die as others live to their 100th birthday, and thus is life.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#48
So...children of unsaved parents are all just going to mysteriously vanish, and the world is just going to go on, unbelieving, as if nothing ever happened?
Scripture does not indicate that EVERY PERSON left on the earth following our Rapture REMAINS "UN-believing"... some will come to faith, while others will not come to faith [but will "believe THE LIE/the FALSE/the pseudei" instead]
(that is, each of these TWO DIFFERENT/DISTINCT "responses"[/beliefs] occurring IN/WITHIN/DURING the trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture").

So take that into consideration, when pondering this issue. = )
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,595
17,062
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Tennessee
#49
Do all the children get divinely protected from all the plagues, hailstones, poisoned waters, fire and brimstone that issues out of the mouth of the 200,000,000 army?
There will indeed be an army 200,000,000, possibly coming out of China.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#50
As in my previous two posts. Let us settle it with scripture. Two or more witnesses are required to establish something.

Go well bro.
It is better to respond to questions of faith by understanding afforded by the Holy Spirit rather than to rely strictly on chapter and verse, with or without numbers.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#51
Hello, do all children get raptured up? I have 3 young children under 7 years old and I am very worried for them. If I do make it to the rapture I’m scared of what will happen to my children left behind to face the tribulation alone.
No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in the holy scripture.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#52
I'm not "a student of her [/Angela's] caliber," but I just thought perhaps you might be interested in another "pre-tribber's viewpoint" on these few passages you've pointed out... so here's my view on those:

--Phil 3:14 "upward call" refers to "in the here and now" ["mind" being the context--2:2, 3:16]

--Luke 21:36 not being a "rapture" verse, but instruction for those found IN the trib yrs, to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" each and every thing coming to pass (on the earth, at that time), and to stand before (in a judicial sense) the Son of man (His "Second Coming TO THE EARTH" designation)

--Rev3:10... context being addressed to "the churchES" (not merely to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), so in "the churchES" there exists both genuine believers (the "overcomers" / SAVED persons) AND those who come in His name, but who are not vitally connect with Christ (i.e. they are NOT SAVED)... Whereas "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is made up of ONLY believers... and Paul says "WE ALL" shall be "changed" (I blv that occurs at the time of "our Rapture")



[IOW, I do not believe that the "Partial-Rapture Theory" is biblical, based on these explanations, brief though it is, in this post = ) ]
Thanks for your comments. I have to apologize but your comments are too brief for me to gain their substance. I think you know what you're pointing to, but i have missed it. Please forgive me for withholding comment.

God bless and go well bro.
 

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
63
#54
Hello, do all children get raptured up? I have 3 young children under 7 years old and I am very worried for them. If I do make it to the rapture I’m scared of what will happen to my children left behind to face the tribulation alone.
Let me ask you a question to help you understand what the answer is. Do children go to heaven when they die? Its the same question and requires the same answer. I personally would say Yes, if they need support from parents and they believe in Jesus and are mature enough to make a decision then i would say yes.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,059
4,346
113
#55
Hello, do all children get raptured up? I have 3 young children under 7 years old and I am very worried for them. If I do make it to the rapture I’m scared of what will happen to my children left behind to face the tribulation alone.
you saved? Did you teach your children and lead them to Christ? There is no need for concern Trust in the lord and train them up in the ways of the Lord :)