Acts 21:21 Did Paul teach to abandon Moses?

[Blik]

To curse is to not bless. When speaking of Jews which kind must be determined .A outward Jew according to the corrupted flesh simply represents all of unredeemed mankind. We are not to offer pearls before swine's (unbelievers) who appose the gospel Where a inward Jew our brothers in Christ born of the spirit represents mankind redeemed .

Same with Israel. Not all Israel are born again believers.

Paul being on both sides of the first century reformation under a law of the fathers as Saul he became Paul , the number one wanted man under the out of sight out of mind religion .

The law of the fathers. where men lord it over the faith of others looked at the ceremonial parables as literal fulfillment eulogizing the flesh The veil was rent showing us the flesh of the first born . or called our bloody husband had come the mystery of the parables as ceremonial laws had become sight .

They that did walk on the other side of the reformation received the end of thier new born again salvation from the beforehand we look back by the same spirit of faith to that one time demonstration

1 Peter 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.



As new creatures we are made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.(both) as born again believers.

She the wife of Christ is under the new name the father named her is Acts, Christian.

Christian a more befitting name for the city of Christ prepared as his bride .(The residents of the unseen city) . A name that represents all the nations. (not one)

The letter of the law death will do its work of corrupting as the wrath being revealed daily from heaven until the last day under the Sun . When the Sun and moon had finished their temporal corrupted time keeping purpose.

Then death according to the letter "(written word) will be discarded and never rise again and condemn a entire creation. .

If all that scripture (written works) tells us is corrupt, if all the guidance God gives us he calls Torah and we call law, is corrupt and it is right as people say that Galatians is right and God cancels His counsel to us we are in serious trouble. God wrote the ten commandments with His own finger, they are part of the written word you say is corrupt. Can a holy God write corruption?

When I saw this in Galatians I wiped my tears and started to study. I went to history in addition to scripture to find out what the people at the time Paul taught considered the law of Moses. I googled Yale and Harvard to find their ancient history professors and read the books they wrote after checking their background to be sure they had studied the latest archaeology findings, I found that Gamalier and other scholars had decided to require gentile converts to follow 18 rules (like circumcision) to be allowed to join a synagogue. They had been joining for a time then leaving for pagan parties, taking Jew friends they had made with them. No copies of the 18 rules has survived, only historians speaking of them. We are told of this in Acts. I found that people of the time of Paul were upset by these rules and called them Laws of Moses. Paul wrote of these in Galatians and not of the entire laws of the Lord. If this is correct, we can rely on all scripture. If it isn't then one scripture cancels another and we cannot rely on God as being the truth.

 

[Dino246]

Hebrew 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Magenta told us the old covenant has passed away, and I do not see "passed away" or "cancelled" or any words meaning this in this scripture. Some scripture says the old covenant is out of date, others it has grown old.

We know of many things that are obsolete that God gave as a guide for following His commands. Paul said those guides were like the guidance given children to find a safe way to school. They are obsolete and have died because they are not needed any more. But the interpretation that all old commands have been cancelled by the new guides we have, the Holy Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, is a poor interpretation of what is obsolete.

Also, most say this means that much of what God has asked of us is passed away, lumping most of God's commands as the old covenant. They have no scripture backup for this, only their interpretations of scripture. Based on their interpretations the church has divided.

The wording depends on the translation. Here are a few variations:

ESV In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

CSB By saying a new covenant, he has declared that the first is obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old is about to pass away.

HCSB By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear.

YLT in the saying `new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old [is] nigh disappearing.

There are others, of course. It's good to check several translations when the issue is around the English wording.

 

[cuz]

Magenta said:


Jesus instituted a NEW Covenant; the Old Covenant is passing away.

Please give scripture to support this statement.

heb 7:18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

heb 8:
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

heb10:9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[cuz]

gal-4:24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother

1st covenant Mount Sinai is for present city of Jerusalem
2nd covenant is for Jerusalem that is above is free

blessings

 

[cuz]

2 cor 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

(not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.)

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

(ministry that brought death,)(which was engraved in letters on stone)
(ministry of the Spirit)
(If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!)

 

[Blik]

Magenta said:


Jesus instituted a NEW Covenant; the Old Covenant is passing away.



heb 7:18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

heb 8:
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

heb10:9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What has passed away? Has Christ? Has honoring parents? Has all of God's counsel to us? Has all we are told in the OT passed away, old, out of date?

But then, if scripture keeps giving us law and asks us to obey it, and other scripture tells us we aren't under any instructions to us, then we cannot quote scripture as truth as one scripture contradicts others.

 

[soggykitten]

Jesus said nothing of the law shall pass away, not the covenant. Many today are saying the old covenant is the law and that Paul told of the law being cancelled. They say they are not under the law, and they say that doesn't mean that the law does not kill them for they are forgiven by Christ, but that it means they can ignore the law, it doesn't apply to them. So they wipe out most of the OT.

I'm not sure how they justify that Christ forgives them of sin when they also say the law defining that sin is wiped out. This post is for them to explain.

Great points.

 

[cuz]

What has passed away? Has Christ? Has honoring parents? Has all of God's counsel to us? Has all we are told in the OT passed away, old, out of date?

But then, if scripture keeps giving us law and asks us to obey it, and other scripture tells us we aren't under any instructions to us, then we cannot quote scripture as truth as one scripture contradicts others.

those that live by flesh is under ministry that brought death
those that live by the spirit is under ministry of life

one is for the ungodly
one is for the godly
rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Magenta is right as you can see in the bible

 

[Blik]

those that live by flesh is under ministry that brought death
those that live by the spirit is under ministry of life

one is for the ungodly
one is for the godly
rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Magenta is right as you can see in the bible

Does living in the spirit require the law to be dead? Living in the spirit is not under law, so they can murder, steal, and lie as there is no law. That puts then back into carnal living. Canceling the law makes for a no win situation.

 

[cuz]

Does living in the spirit require the law to be dead? Living in the spirit is not under law, so they can murder, steal, and lie as there is no law. That puts then back into carnal living. Canceling the law makes for a no win situation.

gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1tim 1:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

col 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

 

[cuz]

Does living in the spirit require the law to be dead? Living in the spirit is not under law, so they can murder, steal, and lie as there is no law. That puts then back into carnal living. Canceling the law makes for a no win situation.

the law of Christ covers all of this
that does not make it the same law
gal 6:1Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill --------->the law of Christ.<------ 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load. 6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.

 

[Blik]

the law of Christ covers all of this
that does not make it the same law
gal 6:1Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill --------->the law of Christ.<------ 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load. 6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.

I have shared that Paul was speaking of the physical commands in Galatians, and not the law of God and Christ. And I have been shot down for this sharing. I have shared the weeks of work I did to unearth this information, and it is not accepted. Mew Covenant people are without truth of scripture, they have made their own "truth". Examples of the law of love that is the law of Christ as in the ten commandments have been called corrupt.

 

[cuz]

I have shared that Paul was speaking of the physical commands in Galatians, and not the law of God and Christ. And I have been shot down for this sharing. I have shared the weeks of work I did to unearth this information, and it is not accepted. Mew Covenant people are without truth of scripture, they have made their own "truth". Examples of the law of love that is the law of Christ as in the ten commandments have been called corrupt.

if you can show verses
ill be glad to be corrected
here is Ezekiel 20:
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.


25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

 

[Blik]

if you can show verses
ill be glad to be corrected
here is Ezekiel 20:
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

It is entirely your choice. The Lord gives us all free will and expects us to give each other the right to their own decisions,

Read post 21.

Here the Lord describes the new covenant: Eze. 11: 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

The Lord took back some of His directions, but never the core of his decrees. He took back cutting foreskin as Galatians tells us, but not circumcision. We are still to belong to Christ as circumcision was a sign of. He took back eating only pure food from animals that weren't built to eat garbage, but not the law it applies to, to feed our mind pure food.

People say the new covenant tells us to follow what Constantine told us "don't do anything the Jews do". So they label God's command with Jewish customs we don't need to follow.

You ask for scripture when current ideas are man made, and supported with scripture they have twisted to support their fleshly idea of what it says. Man made Easter, God didn't. Even the name is man made. Man made Sunday, God didn't. Man cancelled the law, God didn't. Man cancelled the celebrations of the salvation we are offered, God didn't.

 

[cuz]

You ask for scripture when current ideas are man made, and supported with scripture they have twisted to support their fleshly idea of what it says. Man made Easter, God didn't. Even the name is man made. Man made Sunday, God didn't. Man cancelled the law, God didn't. Man cancelled the celebrations of the salvation we are offered, God didn't.

i understand what you are saying
i dont follow Constantine but the kingdom was given to Constantine (aka gentiles)

take a look at
heb 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”[d]


22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

in Exodus 18 God is going to give the law to the wicked
that law is the one we are talking about

Eze. 11: 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

the law in Eze. 11:20 is talking about the law of christ
two different mountains
two different kinds of people
two laws one for the wicked
other is for those that are the children of God

its the same in 2cor3
1tim 1 tells what the first law was for
heb 7 said when a new high priest come a new law comes with him
heb 8 said the old will fade away
heb 10 said jesus comes to do your will and set aside the first so you can have the 2nd
Ezekiel 20 tells us that there are laws in the first one that are not good for us
does the bible tell us witch one to keep and throw out?
romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

in Eze. 11: 19 the only way to come to your understanding is to think there is only one law but there is two
law of christ gal 6
law of spirit rom 8
blessings thx for the reply

 

[Blik]

i understand what you are saying
i dont follow Constantine but the kingdom was given to Constantine (aka gentiles)

take a look at
heb 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”[d]


22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

in Exodus 18 God is going to give the law to the wicked
that law is the one we are talking about

Eze. 11: 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

the law in Eze. 11:20 is talking about the law of christ
two different mountains
two different kinds of people
two laws one for the wicked
other is for those that are the children of God

its the same in 2cor3
1tim 1 tells what the first law was for
heb 7 said when a new high priest come a new law comes with him
heb 8 said the old will fade away
heb 10 said jesus comes to do your will and set aside the first so you can have the 2nd
Ezekiel 20 tells us that there are laws in the first one that are not good for us
does the bible tell us witch one to keep and throw out?
romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

in Eze. 11: 19 the only way to come to your understanding is to think there is only one law but there is two
law of christ gal 6
law of spirit rom 8
blessings thx for the reply

I do not see how these scriptures teach that the law is cancelled and not to be followed. Do you think the Lord would give a law that wasn't also a law of Christ? The basic law of God and of Christ is love, and we could test any law to see if it expresses God. Honor parents, don't lie, don't covet, all law is a way we are to live in love.

Constantine gave laws for Christians and most were based on "anything the Jews did, Christians should not do". God used Constantine, but I do not think he was working for the kingdom of the Lord, he was working as an Emperor of Rome. Our church doctrines were established by him more even, than by Christ. Christ followed the Father, and Constantine followed opposing Jews. Today's accepted doctrines are about how we are not to follow the Father. That is not following Christ.

The church accuses Paul of teaching them all their doctrines (like cancelling the law) that oppose what scripture tells us. They did this while Paul lived, also. The Bereans in Acts 17 searched the scriptures to find out if this is true and found that Paul didn't oppose scripture. If the church's interpretation of Galatians is correct then the Bereans were wrong.

 

[cuz]

I do not see how these scriptures teach that the law is cancelled and not to be followed. Do you think the Lord would give a law that wasn't also a law of Christ? The basic law of God and of Christ is love, and we could test any law to see if it expresses God. Honor parents, don't lie, don't covet, all law is a way we are to live in love.

Constantine gave laws for Christians and most were based on "anything the Jews did, Christians should not do". God used Constantine, but I do not think he was working for the kingdom of the Lord, he was working as an Emperor of Rome. Our church doctrines were established by him more even, than by Christ. Christ followed the Father, and Constantine followed opposing Jews. Today's accepted doctrines are about how we are not to follow the Father. That is not following Christ.

The church accuses Paul of teaching them all their doctrines (like cancelling the law) that oppose what scripture tells us. They did this while Paul lived, also. The Bereans in Acts 17 searched the scriptures to find out if this is true and found that Paul didn't oppose scripture. If the church's interpretation of Galatians is correct then the Bereans were wrong.

with all the scripts ive laid out
it maybe better to agree to disagree
I do understand your view
thxs for being open with it
blessings

 

[Blik]

with all the scripts ive laid out
it maybe better to agree to disagree
I do understand your view
thxs for being open with it
blessings

I agree, and thanks so much for hanging in there with our explanations.

I agree reluctantly because it seems to me so very important that we see all scripture as truth of the Lord, and if we see Galatians as denying other scripture we are denying that all scripture is truth.

 

[Grandpa]

I agree, and thanks so much for hanging in there with our explanations.

I agree reluctantly because it seems to me so very important that we see all scripture as truth of the Lord, and if we see Galatians as denying other scripture we are denying that all scripture is truth.

What happened to animal sacrifice?

Is it still truth or did that truth pass away?


Do you still sacrifice animals in order to cover sin? Why or why not?

 

[Blik]

What happened to animal sacrifice?

Is it still truth or did that truth pass away?


Do you still sacrifice animals in order to cover sin? Why or why not?

If you believed in scripture as coming from God, you wouldn't ask this question. Scripture tells us that NEVER has the blood of animals atoned for sin, but it tells us that as soon as evil came to us God gave blood on the altar to atone.

Because God has never been part of the occult and gnostics as most new covenant people are, God gave a physical symbol of His blood. Evidently, in your mind it is only the animal blood that God hated that was given, you don't believe God when God said it was the blood He gave on the altar. God uses physical acts to mirror the kingdom, like the ten commandments to mirror love. Bew covenant people often deny the ten commandments, also, as too physical.

New covenant people quote Jerimiah not Ezekiel to tell of the new covenant because Jerimiah doesn't mention anything physical while Ezekiel talks of actually doing what God asks of us.

I would bet you follow through with this error in thinking to believe the new covenant tells us that God is only in our spirit, God never acts literally.