Acts 21:21 Did Paul teach to abandon Moses?

[Blik]

The Jews put Paul on trial because of his teachings, and the trial’s outcome was to free Paul of the charge yet many in today’s church believe Paul did teach to abandon Moses. Are they correct? Did Paul’s teaching against circumcision and Jewish customs teach to abandon Moses?

Acts 21:21 They (brothers and sisters in Christ) have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

There is also a related issue in our church, the question about what is a Jewish custom and what is a true command of our Lord. Is everything the Jews do only a custom and we are not to do anything they do or are some of the things they do what our Lord wants from us.

Constantine, who established many of our church's doctrines, told us that anything the Jews did we must not do for the Jews were evil. The Lord told us that if we cursed the Jews we would be cursed. who is right?

 

[Magenta]

Jesus instituted a NEW Covenant; the Old Covenant is passing away.

 

[Blik]

Jesus instituted a NEW Covenant; the Old Covenant is passing away.

Please give scripture to support this statement.

 

[Dino246]

Please give scripture to support this statement.

Hebrews 8:13.

 

[Blik]

Hebrew 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Magenta told us the old covenant has passed away, and I do not see "passed away" or "cancelled" or any words meaning this in this scripture. Some scripture says the old covenant is out of date, others it has grown old.

We know of many things that are obsolete that God gave as a guide for following His commands. Paul said those guides were like the guidance given children to find a safe way to school. They are obsolete and have died because they are not needed any more. But the interpretation that all old commands have been cancelled by the new guides we have, the Holy Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, is a poor interpretation of what is obsolete.

Also, most say this means that much of what God has asked of us is passed away, lumping most of God's commands as the old covenant. They have no scripture backup for this, only their interpretations of scripture. Based on their interpretations the church has divided.

 

[Runningman]

Galatians 3:21-25

21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[soggykitten]

Didn't Jesus say nothing of the old covenant will pass away as long as heaven and earth exist?

 

[GaryA]

Constantine, who established many of our church's doctrines, told us that anything the Jews did we must not do for the Jews were evil. The Lord told us that if we cursed the Jews we would be cursed. who is right?

Who is right - Constantine or the Lord...???

I believe I would choose 'the Lord' every time...

Just make sure you properly interpret what the Lord actually said [within the context of the passage].

 

[Blik]

Didn't Jesus say nothing of the old covenant will pass away as long as heaven and earth exist?

Jesus said nothing of the law shall pass away, not the covenant. Many today are saying the old covenant is the law and that Paul told of the law being cancelled. They say they are not under the law, and they say that doesn't mean that the law does not kill them for they are forgiven by Christ, but that it means they can ignore the law, it doesn't apply to them. So they wipe out most of the OT.

I'm not sure how they justify that Christ forgives them of sin when they also say the law defining that sin is wiped out. This post is for them to explain.

 

[Blik]

Galatians 3:21-25

21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Does this mean that you are sure that Paul was speaking of the law as a guardian for children walking to school and not the physical routines like cutting foreskin?

 

[Runningman]

Does this mean that you are sure that Paul was speaking of the law as a guardian for children walking to school and not the physical routines like cutting foreskin?

Both. I think some of the law had no purpose but to show obedience and to distinguish Israel from others as a chosen people. Like the cutting of foreskin, not mixing threads in clothing, not eating pork, etc. The other part of the law seems like it was for actual instruction in righteousness due to wickedness. Like do not envy, kill, steal, etc.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Did Paul’s teaching against circumcision and Jewish customs teach to abandon Moses?

CHRISTIANS AND THE LAW OF MOSES
The Law of Moses has caused a lot of confusion among Christians and continues to do so. Some Christians believe that nothing within the Torah is applicable to them. Others go in the opposite direction and imagine that everything is still valid. And that is why it is necessary to understand how the Law of Moses applies (or does not apply) today to those who are under the New Covenant.

WHERE IS IT FOUND?
The Law of Moses is frequently referred to as the Torah, but it is only the last four books of the Torah which actually contain the Law. So we need to know what is written in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

HOW IS IT FOUND?
When we study those books we find that God’s commandments are interspersed with the history of the Israelites in the wilderness. So all the laws are not found in one place, neither are they all categorized into their different components.

WHAT ARE THE COMPONENTS OF THE LAW?
There are at least ten broad components to the Law of Moses. They are laws applicable to the:
1. Tabernacle (or temple) and its sacrifices and offerings
2. Levitical priesthood
3. Levites
4. Feasts (including harvests, tithes, feasts, festivals and holy days)
5. Covenants with Israel
6. Civil and military laws [including laws applicable to physical appearance, purification (including circumcision), Nazarites, marriage, inheritance, vows, numbering, battles, sieges, and spoils of war, kings, division of land, etc.]
7. Criminal laws or laws of justice (including usury) which frequently had the death penalty
8. Health and disease laws
9. Dietary laws, and
10. Moral and Spiritual laws (including the Ten Commandments)

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE ETERNAL
The Ten Commandments are based upon the absolute holiness and righteousness of God – the character of God. Since god does not change, those laws are eternal. While they were written on tablets of stone in the Old Covenant, they are written on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit within the New Covenant. And they are summed up in the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love. So Christians are not lawless and devoid of the commandments of God. Indeed the Law of Love is even more stringent than the Law of Moses.

WHICH LAWS ARE NULL AND VOID
According to the epistle to the Hebrews, the laws pertaining to the tabernacle or temple, the Levitical priesthood, the Levities, the offerings and sacrifices, the feasts, festivals and holy days, as well as ceremonial observances are all null and void. Other laws pertaining to Israel as a nation cannot be applied since the temple has been destroyed. So the only laws which are meaningful are the moral and spiritual laws.

WHICH LAWS ARE STILL VALID
According to Acts 15:28,29, the Holy Spirit has applied only four laws to the Church, and they primarily forbid the consumption of blood or meats sacrificed to idols. Fornication is also forbidden: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain [1] from meats offered to idols, and [2] from blood, and [3] from things strangled, and [4] from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[Guojing]

Hebrew 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Magenta told us the old covenant has passed away, and I do not see "passed away" or "cancelled" or any words meaning this in this scripture. Some scripture says the old covenant is out of date, others it has grown old.

We know of many things that are obsolete that God gave as a guide for following His commands. Paul said those guides were like the guidance given children to find a safe way to school. They are obsolete and have died because they are not needed any more. But the interpretation that all old commands have been cancelled by the new guides we have, the Holy Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, is a poor interpretation of what is obsolete.

Also, most say this means that much of what God has asked of us is passed away, lumping most of God's commands as the old covenant. They have no scripture backup for this, only their interpretations of scripture. Based on their interpretations the church has divided.

The new covenant stated in Hebrews 8 will be made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, which we are neither.

It also states that it will be made, that means in the future.

Right now, Israel is an enemy with God (Romans 11:28), so that new covenant is not existing yet. But once Israel accepts Jesus as the Messiah during the Tribulation, it will finally happen.

 

[Blik]

CHRISTIANS AND THE LAW OF MOSES

WHICH LAWS ARE STILL VALID
According to Acts 15:28,29, the Holy Spirit has applied only four laws to the Church, and they primarily forbid the consumption of blood or meats sacrificed to idols. Fornication is also forbidden: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain [1] from meats offered to idols, and [2] from blood, and [3] from things strangled, and [4] from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The gentiles who accepted Christ were to go to the synagogue to learn about the Lord, but the synagogue demanded these things of the gentiles who entered.

Thanks so much for your study of the problem.

 

[dcontroversal]

Didn't Jesus say nothing of the old covenant will pass away as long as heaven and earth exist?

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

And the law is for the lawless....it is in full force condemning the lost every day! And will condemn the lost in the LAST DAY when the books are opened and the dead judged out of those things found written therein......!!

 

[Blik]

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

And the law is for the lawless....it is in full force condemning the lost every day! And will condemn the lost in the LAST DAY when the books are opened and the dead judged out of those things found written therein......!!

So you feel that unless you are lawless the law isn't for you. Do you think you are sinless, so you obey every law perfectly?

 

[dcontroversal]

So you feel that unless you are lawless the law isn't for you. Do you think you are sinless, so you obey every law perfectly?

You obviously do not understand the purpose of the law and or the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith without the law....no thanks to beating a dead horse with you over you.

 

[p_rehbein]

This is what Paul taught, and this is what one must come to understand:

Romans, Chapter 3:

27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Apostle Paul taught/introduced the Law of Faith as the Law of the New Covenant, Grace through the precious blood of Jesus Christ.........

Why do people want to hold onto what has "waxed and grown old?"

Embrace the saving grace of God which can not be received through the Law of the 1st Covenant.........never was intended to be that way FROM THE BEGINNING.

 

[garee]

The Jews put Paul on trial because of his teachings, and the trial’s outcome was to free Paul of the charge yet many in today’s church believe Paul did teach to abandon Moses. Are they correct? Did Paul’s teaching against circumcision and Jewish customs teach to abandon Moses?

Acts 21:21 They (brothers and sisters in Christ) have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

There is also a related issue in our church, the question about what is a Jewish custom and what is a true command of our Lord. Is everything the Jews do only a custom and we are not to do anything they do or are some of the things they do what our Lord wants from us.

Constantine, who established many of our church's doctrines, told us that anything the Jews did we must not do for the Jews were evil. The Lord told us that if we cursed the Jews we would be cursed. who is right?

To curse is to not bless. When speaking of Jews which kind must be determined .A outward Jew according to the corrupted flesh simply represents all of unredeemed mankind. We are not to offer pearls before swine's (unbelievers) who appose the gospel Where a inward Jew our brothers in Christ born of the spirit represents mankind redeemed .

Same with Israel. Not all Israel are born again believers.

Paul being on both sides of the first century reformation under a law of the fathers as Saul he became Paul , the number one wanted man under the out of sight out of mind religion .

The law of the fathers. where men lord it over the faith of others looked at the ceremonial parables as literal fulfillment eulogizing the flesh The veil was rent showing us the flesh of the first born . or called our bloody husband had come the mystery of the parables as ceremonial laws had become sight .

They that did walk on the other side of the reformation received the end of thier new born again salvation from the beforehand we look back by the same spirit of faith to that one time demonstration

1 Peter 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The new covenant stated in Hebrews 8 will be made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, which we are neither.

It also states that it will be made, that means in the future.

Right now, Israel is an enemy with God (Romans 11:28), so that new covenant is not existing yet. But once Israel accepts Jesus as the Messiah during the Tribulation, it will finally happen.

As new creatures we are made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.(both) as born again believers.

She the wife of Christ is under the new name the father named her is Acts, Christian.

Christian a more befitting name for the city of Christ prepared as his bride .(The residents of the unseen city) . A name that represents all the nations. (not one)

The letter of the law death will do its work of corrupting as the wrath being revealed daily from heaven until the last day under the Sun . When the Sun and moon had finished their temporal corrupted time keeping purpose.

Then death according to the letter "(written word) will be discarded and never rise again and condemn a entire creation. .

 

[Blik]

You obviously do not understand the purpose of the law and or the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith without the law....no thanks to beating a dead horse with you over you.

And obviously you believe that in Galatians we are told to ignore Christ, even. Christ said if you love me you will obey me. If Galatians is right and we are to ignore the law, if all the guidance God gives us in what God calls the Torah and we interpret as law, is over and cancelled, then we are told one thing in one scripture and another is others. We are told God cancelled what we were told. God gives guidance for ones who don't want it, and cancels guidance to those who trust the Lord.

If you are right that scripture in Galatians tells us the law is cancelled, it follows that all scripture is cancelled, for it tells us one thing in one verse and another in other verses. We are not told which verse is correct. If all the law is cancelled by scripture, then one scripture cancels the other and none can be trusted.