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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Jan 12, 2019
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So you don't believe gospel is for all nation because in the gospel jesus command to carry the cross
Than you believe for all nation, gospel - carry cross am I correct?
I believed that national Israel has rejected that gospel that you are talking about.

And because of that rejection, God revealed his hidden plan that he had since the world began, to Paul, a new gospel that allows Gentiles to be saved without the Law, and without Israel.

Romans 9-11, and Ephesians 2-3 has all the details of that.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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And because of that rejection, God revealed his hidden plan that he had since the world began, to Paul
And if "national Israel" had gladly received Christ, then the "hidden" plan would have never come to pass; God would not have so loved the world to give his only begotten Son...

Your understanding of the Bible is way out there man! Seriously!

Besides, the "hidden" gospel was revealed to all the apostles, not just to Paul!

Ephesians 3:5
( ...the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
 
Jan 12, 2019
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And if "national Israel" had gladly received Christ, then the "hidden" plan would have never come to pass; God would not have so loved the world to give his only begotten Son...

Your understanding of the Bible is way out there man! Seriously!

Besides, the "hidden" gospel was revealed to all the apostles, not just to Paul!

Ephesians 3:5
( ...the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
God is outside time, he could tell from the beginning that Israel would reject his son.

We are living in time, so for us to understand omniscience would be like an ant understanding how humans think
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I believed that national Israel has rejected that gospel that you are talking about.

And because of that rejection, God revealed his hidden plan that he had since the world began, to Paul, a new gospel that allows Gentiles to be saved without the Law, and without Israel.

Romans 9-11, and Ephesians 2-3 has all the details of that.
1. So you not agree with Jesus because Jesus command to preach the gospel to all nations

Gospel that have command to carry the cross.

2. You accuse Paul teach another gospel, not the same gospel jesus teach because jeaus gospel say carry the cross and you believe Paul gospel never teach to carry the cross.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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1. So you not agree with Jesus because Jesus command to preach the gospel to all nations

Gospel that have command to carry the cross.

2. You accuse Paul teach another gospel, not the same gospel jesus teach because jeaus gospel say carry the cross and you believe Paul gospel never teach to carry the cross.
Galatians 1
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The ascended Christ himself reveal that gospel to Paul.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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There many today in various nations that reject his Son.

Nothing special about "Israel" rejecting the Son either.
Yes, but Israel was the only nation that had a covenant with God (Exodus 19:3-6, Ephesians 2:11-12)

Exodus 19
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Galatians 1
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The ascended Christ himself reveal that gospel to Paul.
So you believe Paul teach gospel of Jesus Christ to all nation
That mean he teach gospel that also teach to carry the cross
 
Feb 29, 2020
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Yes, but Israel was the only nation that had a covenant with God (Exodus 19:3-6, Ephesians 2:11-12)
And that covenant was faulty (Hebrews 8:8).

The new covenant was brought about to put the laws into men's minds and write them in their hearts; ALL MEN.

Those who are truly Israel in the Spirit (Romans 9:6; Galatians 4:28-31).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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And that covenant was faulty (Hebrews 8:8).

The new covenant was brought about to put the laws into men's minds and write them in their hearts; ALL MEN.

Those who are truly Israel in the Spirit (Romans 9:6; Galatians 4:28-31).
Yes, but you are anticipating revelation there.

Of course now we know that the nation Israel has rejected the Messiah.

But they had to be given a legitimate choice to accept him after Christ rose from the dead. Just because God foresaw Israel's fall in Romans 11:11, that does not mean he caused the fall to happen.
 
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So you believe Paul teach gospel of Jesus Christ to all nation
That mean he teach gospel that also teach to carry the cross
The gospel he taught was righteousness apart from the Law, so no need to carry cross for that (Romans 3:21)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The gospel he taught was righteousness apart from the Law, so no need to carry cross for that (Romans 3:21)
So you believe Paul not teach the same gospel that Jesus teach

Romans 5

3 Not only so, but we[a] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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So you believe Paul not teach the same gospel that Jesus teach

Romans 5

3 Not only so, but we[a] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
Paul gave a clue here

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Paul gave a clue here

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Is that mean we don't need to carry the cross to be worthy of Him?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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So you believe Paul not teach the same gospel that Jesus teach

Romans 5

3 Not only so, but we[a] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
Jesus and Paul taught the same message. To put the teachings of Paul as more important for us today than the words of the Incarnate Son of God . . . -- I will not do that!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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Jesus and Paul taught the same message. To put the teachings of Paul as more important for us today than the words of the Incarnate Son of God . . . -- I will not do that!
That mean Paul also teach us to carry the cross like Jesus did
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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John 3:16

King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Seem to me this verse say we responsible to believe if we want save
Eph 2 says that we are regenerated (saved eternally) before we have the ability to believe. John 3:16 is talking about the world of those who are regenerated believers.